Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    I'm 2 items away from BiS (both from heroic elite protectors) and 300k+ envenom is not something special.
    Really? Could that be from Garalon or Gara'jal or Elegon? Because the BiS profile from SimC is showing Envenom average crits at 190k, and I don't see what would cause that level of discrepancy, with an average envenom at 120.3k - http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html from live.

    How we got onto envenom damage I'm not sure, because Soxy's post doesn't mention it, but let's start from that profile. Assume the 20% buff is a 20% buff, and, before better gear, envenom's average hit should be around 144k in BiS, with crits averaging 238k.

    POISONS! To get back to what Soxy was trying to discuss. I'm fairly certain that was an attempt to pull random numbers out for the sake of good napkin math, because 100 is a nice round number for multiplying - and showing that given a severe mastery boost, the crit loss is not just countered but overpowered by the increase in damage of non-crits and the fewer remaining crits. Introducing current values from SimC: Deadly proc non-crit 17k, deadly proc crit 37k (odd discrepancy but I'm not about to look into it - Skull Banner?) at 7665 mastery (from gear - we gain 17.5% poison damage from buffs/base if I'm following this accurately). That's 90.23% gain; with an average instant damage of 23.7k, DP instants hit for approximately 12,458 before mastery. RoR in that profile would proc for 13,444 mastery. Account for only crit from agility, buff the average instant damage with the lower crit rate by the new mastery value, and you have your damage listing per hit on average.

    Toss haste in there afterwards...

    I still think the easier way to do a hackneyed model of this is to sim yourself normally, and sim yourself with 0 crit rating, 0 haste rating, and 2x(normal haste/crit) added to mastery artificially by manipulating stats in SimC's profile.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-02-27 at 08:10 PM.

  2. #22
    Banner makes your 100k hits do 220k crits (instead of 200k), ToT pulls the numbers to 115k and 230k, for example (not to mention that damage buffs are multiplicative, so assassin's resolve interaction with ToT gives you total 38% additional damage (and not 35%).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Really? Could that be from Garalon or Gara'jal or Elegon? Because the BiS profile from SimC is showing Envenom average crits at 190k, and I don't see what would cause that level of discrepancy, with an average envenom at 120.3k - http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html from live.
    Does SimC takes DS, trinket procs and Virmen's bite into account?
    Once again, 300k+ crits of envenom is pretty common thing i see on almost every pull in my current gear on live.
    Last edited by Mazius; 2013-02-27 at 08:25 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    Does SimC takes DS, trinket procs and Virmen's bite into account?
    Once again, 300k+ crits of envenom is pretty common thing i see on almost every pull in my current gear on live.
    Be pretty useless if it didn't =) Bumping the "average" non-crit slightly (using the average non-crit as opposed to the average non-crit not-counting-vendetta) and tossing 1.15, 1.3, and 2.2 multipliers for being under vendetta (unglyphed, for some reason), tricks, and skull banner, the average crit envenom should be just under 291,678 for a BiS geared rogue - 269.2k with Vendetta glyphed (assuming the meta stacks multiplicatively with Skull Banner, which I don't think it does). I could see getting 300k+ crits with potion, synapse springs, some other proc, under tricks, skull banner, and glyphed vendetta, even a few times over the course of a raid night, but to my mind once or twice on most pulls doesn't qualify as "common"... but that's primarily a matter of semantics. To me, lining up almost every proc you have with a critical finisher is relatively "special".

    On the PTR, that should be a different story, of course.

    Heh, as a side benefit the gargantuan, if extraordinarily rare, crits we should see from a ToBx5 -> RoR buffed envenom under tricks/vendetta/potion would look AWESOME. Useless for progression of course, but it would be nice to go "OOOH" at something again.

  4. #24
    After ptr raid gonna log live and just post screenshot.
    Once again, 300k+ envenom crits is something i'm vitnessing almost every pull regardless of the boss on live.

    Quick break before 2nd part on PTR.
    Selfbuffed, glyphed Vendetta on target:



    P.S. Asked for mastery and 5% agi buff right before Tortos was up on PTR:



    Additional 1430 agi and 10% AP (it's ~5000 AP) would do the trick.
    Last edited by Mazius; 2013-02-27 at 09:39 PM.

  5. #25
    I went away and researched RPPM mechanics and made this:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VE&usp=sharing
    It now calculate's fairly accurate Stat weights.
    You can input your own stats on the "highlighted yellow" parts. and you have to edit the value in the red box till the blue one below says 0 (or near enough)
    The assumptions i made were that Rupture + SnD were always up. There is no "opener" therefore the chance of proc at the start of a fight = that at any point.
    and that mutilate was the only energy consuming spell @ 55 energy. You can manually alter this to account for rupture/envenom casts (lower energy cost, not sure if rupture application triggers procs?) Also doesnt account for venonmous wounds energy regen/other regens. (might change that shortly)
    1 major thing i did forget and just remembered writing this is inst poison procs. eurgh. this is a bigger task than i originally anticipated. Well. do what you will with it :P
    It should give a rough idea.

    *Edit, tested adding in more actions (poison procs, more special attacks from energy regen) the RPPM mechanic normalizes these which doesn't affect the stat weight. Will look more to check i havent missed anything else.
    *Editedit* Based on the above edit, the only thing not accounted for is the initial proc chance on start of combat (~20% chance to proc on first hit, otherwise normal)
    Last edited by Smashysmashy; 2013-02-28 at 03:29 PM.

  6. #26
    Heroic elite protectors, pull:



    As i've said many times in this thread, 300k+ envenom crits is not something special, seeing it several times per bossfight and almost every pull.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    As i've said many times in this thread, 300k+ envenom crits is not something special, seeing it several times per bossfight and almost every pull.
    I'll cede the point. My rogue unfortunately doesn't get to see as much heroic gear as I'd like.

    Having said that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    How we got onto envenom damage I'm not sure, because Soxy's post doesn't mention it[...]

    POISONS! To get back to what Soxy was trying to discuss. I'm fairly certain that was an attempt to pull random numbers out for the sake of good napkin math, because 100 is a nice round number for multiplying - and showing that given a severe mastery boost, the crit loss is not just countered but overpowered by the increase in damage of non-crits and the fewer remaining crits. Introducing current values from SimC: Deadly proc non-crit 17k, deadly proc crit 37k (odd discrepancy but I'm not about to look into it - Skull Banner?) at 7665 mastery (from gear - we gain 17.5% poison damage from buffs/base if I'm following this accurately). That's 90.23% gain; with an average instant damage of 23.7k, DP instants hit for approximately 12,458 before mastery. RoR in that profile would proc for 13,444 mastery. Account for only crit from agility, buff the average instant damage with the lower crit rate by the new mastery value, and you have your damage listing per hit on average.

    Toss haste in there afterwards...

    I still think the easier way to do a hackneyed model of this is to sim yourself normally, and sim yourself with 0 crit rating, 0 haste rating, and 2x(normal haste/crit) added to mastery artificially by manipulating stats in SimC's profile.
    It would still be nice if someone with a better CPU than mine would like to run this for some default profiles (T14H, T15H) to see how it looks.

    It's been done; see Nitty Gritty page 7.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-04 at 05:35 AM.

  8. #28
    I think the main concern with getting this to work would be managing to get full uptime on ToB, which as has been mentioned earlier 6rppm to achieve, doubling what the trinket has as standard by attaining 100% haste. With stacks of ToB pushing you up with slice and dice, could this get us to that magic number?
    Never argue with and idiot. They bring you down to their level, and then beat you with experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Some people should be forced to re-level their toons, and pay more attention to the process...

  9. #29
    It will be very possible to reach 100% haste with that trinket. That does not mean the trinket will suddenly have 100% uptime, however.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by soxyboi View Post
    I think the main concern with getting this to work would be managing to get full uptime on ToB, which as has been mentioned earlier 6rppm to achieve, doubling what the trinket has as standard by attaining 100% haste. With stacks of ToB pushing you up with slice and dice, could this get us to that magic number?
    More likely with subtlety than assassination, as the increased mastery would further the RPPM goals (or at least wash even) rather than working against it. I'm not sure how exactly RPPM is affected by haste and SnD, but I know some other people have mentioned the power of SnD on RPPM, as a value. Ryme might have an inside look? Or you might be able to try to craw the RPPM/haste/SnD effect out of SimC by running profiles for EF without SnD on vs. with SnD on, and 0 haste vs. high levels of haste. Not sure how closely that matches reality, but THAT is easily tested by nearly AFKing on a training dummy for a couple of hours, using minimum attacks to keep up SnD, making the profile do the same, and comparing proc values.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    I'm aware of the mechanic, you lose 12 seconds worth of proc chance to each ICD, but that's not incredibly significant. Sure it might be something like 10 or 20% less uptime than if there was no ICD, but my point was relative to a non RPPM based ICD trinket where the uptime is almost entirely dependant on the ICD, the ICD is largely irrelevant.
    Actually with the way Real PPM works it could buff itself out. The time since last chance to proc is capped at 10 seconds and since it doesn't have a chance to proc for those 12 seconds, you'd only be losing 2 seconds, it should be fine really.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  12. #32
    No, the I was already accounting for that. The ICD on Rune of Re-Origination is 22 seconds not 12.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
    Pawkets' Armory
    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    No, the I was already accounting for that. The ICD on Rune of Re-Origination is 22 seconds not 12.
    Ah my bad, I just wasn't paying attention then. Sorry.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •