Thread: 40 Man raids

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Lushious View Post
    Of course Blizzard could make them work, but the "problem" lies in the community.
    This. In theory I do love larger raid sizes. But if LFR has shown anything its that large numbers of people mindlessly throwing themselves at something is not stimulating at all. Don't even get how LFR doesn't improve over time as well... people are just awful in it as if its the first week . Whereas in first week people genuinely want to figure out how to beat it but later its just 'lol its just lfr' leading to the meaningless throwing themselves at bosses attitude being prevalent six months on.

  2. #22
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    40 man raids sucked, and were not epic. Spending 50% the time buffing / rebuffing was not fun. If you could heal, you healed for the other 50% of the time. I'm glad they're gone.

  3. #23
    Stood in the Fire Vashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    40 man raids sucked, and were not epic. Spending 50% the time buffing / rebuffing was not fun. If you could heal, you healed for the other 50% of the time. I'm glad they're gone.
    Pretty much agree with this. Having 5 people AFK on boss pulls was weird (they pulled anyway). After wipe you were running back and buffing again, 20 people again asked for mage food which has been casted one by one took like 15 mins before another pull

  4. #24
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vashi View Post
    Pretty much agree with this. Having 5 people AFK on boss pulls was weird (they pulled anyway). After wipe you were running back and buffing again, 20 people again asked for mage food which has been casted one by one took like 15 mins before another pull
    Exactly. 85% of the time in 40 Man was running back, buffing / rebuffing & screaming in TeamSpeak / Ventrilo as you tried to manage an unruly mess of 39 other people.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    -Lorewise (from WoW to MoP) its been about 20 years, or just under. Discounting Anduin, considering hes been cannoned to fit the story. From start of Cata to now, its been at least 4 years in game. So why is DW claw marks still burning, and why are the cranes in Org still spinning around with the same piece of wood? I don't care if you don't care. Some people find it annoying when things don't add up. Going from Mists-Cata-TBC-Wrath-Cata-Mists in the storyline doesn't make much sense.
    That's sounds way off, do you have any reliable source or official timeline ?
    4 years from beginning of Cataclym to now is hard to believe, but 20 years since Vanilla till MoP is way too much : that would make Anduin at least 28, since he was already around in Vanilla.

  6. #26
    Everybody except the "main" tank and "good" healers for each group were left in the dust and just specks of the guild. Nobody cared about them.

    So you had to cope and make friends with your normal party members. I like 25m feel more, but if 40m was a huge thing again, I wouldn't complain as long as it didn't take as much work as it did before...

    Man buffing was such a pain...took almost 10 minutes for a full group to get buffed...

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans Ave07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Exactly. 85% of the time in 40 Man was running back, buffing / rebuffing & screaming in TeamSpeak / Ventrilo as you tried to manage an unruly mess of 39 other people.
    Can't forget about the people who go afk when during thunderfury runs. :P

  8. #28
    Brewmaster Shon237's Avatar
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    I never did 40 man raids in Vanilla but common sense shows what a logistic nightmare it was and would be today. Shoot Blizz can't keep 25 mans alive (no this is not which is better comment) with honestly every class having same abilities.

  9. #29
    I can't regret the 40 man experience, but I honestly think 40 mans should be bigger raids, molten core & bwl were good, but raids just aren't as big anymore. The closest I can think are outside BT, al'akir (oh god 40 man...), ulduar exterior.

    Raids just aren't designed in a big fashion anymore, so honestly squishing that many people in that small of an area is just wierd. I know the argument can be made that there was no different in mc, but it depends on where your raid fought some of the bosses, the only arguement I can agree with is lucifron. Every other boss had a decent sized room.


    Its just why 40 man died in a sense I think...lack of tech *cough* space....

    Its a joke relax

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Brash View Post
    The biggest thing people seem to forget when talking about 40 man raids is that it had many of the same problems that LFR has now, 15 raiders could afk and you could still down bosses, loot drama, and getting people to show up.
    No no no no no no no, no.

    This is the mentality of people that dabbled in Molten Core for a week in Vanilla, and then cleared it at 80.

    Stuff like end of AQ, and most of Naxx, you couldn't have anyone slacking. C'thun? We wiped attempts constantly if anyone died in Phase 1. Maybe in MC, and for some bosses BWL, but after that, pretty much all of the bosses were actually well tuned.


    Why did they get rid of it? I'm sure it was to begin to 'streamline' the game for more audiences. I mean really, it's pretty arbitrary when you think about it. At 40, there were no other raid sizes to worry about or think were better, we just knew 40 and that was it. It's no harder to fill a 40 man raid than 25 if that's the only available size. You just keep your guild roster a bit higher instead of stopping recruiting at a certain level.

    /shrug

    Blizzard can't go back on any changes they make, because that would signal that they did something wrong.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    No no no no no no no, no.

    This is the mentality of people that dabbled in Molten Core for a week in Vanilla, and then cleared it at 80.

    Stuff like end of AQ, and most of Naxx, you couldn't have anyone slacking. C'thun? We wiped attempts constantly if anyone died in Phase 1. Maybe in MC, and for some bosses BWL, but after that, pretty much all of the bosses were actually well tuned.
    Maybe, but there was a huge difference still between good and bad players (I know of a rogue who killed Kel'Thuzad without ever having took Slice and Dice). I often wonder what it would of been like had you been able to find 39 people who were above-average to great players.

    I can hardly remember 40 man raids, just the odd things like "last person there minus DKP" or a warrior who didn't tank bidding on Elementium Reinforced Bulwark as he "needed" it for 5 mans" or the waiting between wipes or the leader losing her shit on ventrillo or the minute you had to use the worlds worst tank for a job. Most of the people I raided with back then I remember as a faceless blob, only remember the truly awful or the truly good. THe logistics of 40 man raiding suck ass, it still sucks ass whens the last time you waited for everyone in the 40 man raid before pulling sha?
    Only make passive aggressive posts when it doesn't make you look like a dumbass.

    Flawless - Cats on Ice. Raiding twice a week. Go casual or go home.

  12. #32
    Well there's always a gap between the good and bad players. Our guild has/had some pretty derpy players, but that doesn't mean T14 heroic modes were all cake walks, we just took a bit longer than others to kill things. That's just the game.

    If everyone was a star player, everyone would be world first guilds :P

  13. #33
    Herald of the Titans Bathory's Avatar
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    They were fun, but it was ridiculous at times trying to get people to show up.
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  14. #34
    40 man raids were largely impractical. Aside from VERY few guilds, most 40 mans running MC had complete morons in some slots just to provide buffs because they weren't good enough to do anything else and the logistics of finding 40 people with a clue was ridiculous.

    There are tons of reasons why 40 mans didn't work out.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    40 man raids were largely impractical. Aside from VERY few guilds, most 40 mans running MC had complete morons in some slots just to provide buffs because they weren't good enough to do anything else and the logistics of finding 40 people with a clue was ridiculous.

    There are tons of reasons why 40 mans didn't work out.
    There are 10 man guilds now that have complete morons just to bring a buff >_>

    And I think it was slightly more difficult to find people back then just due to the lack of resources. Server transfers weren't available during Vanilla from the get go, we didn't have sites like Wowprogress/ElitistJerks/whatever to find people, and well ya... no transfers :P

    Keeping a roster to field 40 is no more difficult than 10 or 25. A guild that has 40 would keep their bench additional players, and recruit when the roster number got below a threshold. A 10/25 man guild has a roster number plus bench spots, and recruits when that number is below a threshold. The only difference is the actual number you stop recruiting at. I will concede it was somewhat more difficult to keep/gear the tanks required, but then again, it's all a relative number. 8 tanks isn't that crazy when you think of how many players would be in the guild. If 25 man raids required 6 tanks, guilds would just keep recruiting instead of stopping at 2.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    idk, apparently its to much work making a fight for a lot of people. Thats apparently what was said in 2010 when someone asked at a Blizzcon, was to time consuming. Other then that, there is really no reason why they dropped 40 mans.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 06:36 PM ----------



    IMO, for Example: New dances were promised at the start of Wrath...I still fail to see them. Every week I see people asking for new dances, it should take 5 years to do that. The problem people have is all the empty promises, and the lack of addressing the feedback. They just label it as "too much work" or "time consuming" and move on. When I mean not addressing feedback, I'm excluding all the "Rogues need to be buffed to one shot everyone" and all those BS input. Its the little stuff that really matters in the end. Blizzard has pretty much like Obama. They say one thing, and do another. In the end, people don't like getting pushed around. Especially if they are paying and supported the people making the game.

    I don't really care anymore though, I'm waiting to see what the next Xpac is before resubbing.

    Have we forgot about new race models and racial balancing ?^^(i mean be and draenei racials) they said that maybe with the launch of mop,the new race models would be upgraded,after,they said not at launch but maybe during a patch launch...what has been done so?undead racial,stop

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    There are 10 man guilds now that have complete morons just to bring a buff >_>

    And I think it was slightly more difficult to find people back then just due to the lack of resources. Server transfers weren't available during Vanilla from the get go, we didn't have sites like Wowprogress/ElitistJerks/whatever to find people, and well ya... no transfers :P

    Keeping a roster to field 40 is no more difficult than 10 or 25. A guild that has 40 would keep their bench additional players, and recruit when the roster number got below a threshold. A 10/25 man guild has a roster number plus bench spots, and recruits when that number is below a threshold. The only difference is the actual number you stop recruiting at. I will concede it was somewhat more difficult to keep/gear the tanks required, but then again, it's all a relative number. 8 tanks isn't that crazy when you think of how many players would be in the guild. If 25 man raids required 6 tanks, guilds would just keep recruiting instead of stopping at 2.
    You absolutely CANNOT get by in Heroic10m with bringing a player JUST for a buff and having them run out of the fight like people did in MC (not to mention buffs work completely different now, so it's pretty dumb of you to suggest that this is even comparable).

    You could get away with doing that just fine in 40 man MC. Paladins ran in and out all day to give buffs and do absolutely nothing else.

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Bathory's Avatar
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    There's no way vanilla 40mans would survive in this environment, not without a ton of re-queing. People ditch on the first wipe of a LFR 25man, imagine having to wait for 15 MORE people?
    You now stand before the Countess.
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  19. #39
    40m raids for world bosses is a reasonable compromise, in my opinion. But you barely see any guilds manage to field 25m raids anymore, bringing back 40m instances would be a disaster.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    -Lorewise (from WoW to MoP) its been about 20 years, or just under. Discounting Anduin, considering hes been cannoned to fit the story. From start of Cata to now, its been at least 4 years in game. So why is DW claw marks still burning, and why are the cranes in Org still spinning around with the same piece of wood? I don't care if you don't care. Some people find it annoying when things don't add up. Going from Mists-Cata-TBC-Wrath-Cata-Mists in the storyline doesn't make much sense.
    Apparently, MoP is set only 4 years after Vanilla. Effectively, 2 years per expansion is one year in warcraft lore time. It may be unofficial, but its far less than 20 years since vanilla and as stated earlier in a Blizz Q&A session, MoP is only set approximately 1 year after Cata.

    I cant post links, but check wowpedia's timeline (unofficial) tells most of the significant dates in warcraft lore.

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