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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Nah, not really, one of our tanks have a lot of DC issues leaving the other tank, usually me, to solo tank. Then after seeing "Hey, we can actually solo tank this easily", we ask ourselves, "Why dont we?", and just got with 1 more tank and 150k more raid dps. Win/Win.

    Him DCing on Will of the Emps Hc was the most interesting. Both bosses just told me to Dance MF Dance!

    Solo tanking Gara'Jal was well, before people were decked in full epic gear, i.e. a lot of blue gear, the enrage on heroic was quite tight you know. So it helped a lot.

    And we two tank a lot of the 1 tankable fights. A lot of the fights I said I just said that I know they are possible because others I know have done it / we have done it earlier but don't bother now.

    Also, I do not get your logic. If going 1 tank requires no issues, simply timing some cooldown use, then why would you not? Why go 2 tanks simply so you have lower dps? See 0 logic in that at all. If I can run with 600k dps or 500k dps during progress, I would say 600k dps is more stable then 500k, wouldn't you? As long as your tank is not dieng because of your tactic, what is the problem? Is it not the guilds using 2 tanks when they can go 1 tank that are going out of their way and making progress less solid?

    The DC thing kinda explain it

    The logic is simple, for instance having a plate DPS tanking Garajal instead of an actual tank spreading the stupid excessive damage he will be taking with vodoo doll to other players makes this alot harder tham 2 tanking it. Pretty much everytime youre using a DPS to get smacked in the face instead of a tank youre making things less stable cause there will be atempts were your DPS will get critted twice in a row and die in a split second. 1 tanking Will makes stuf alot more complicated for your melee DPS for instance and put excessive strain on one single tank, wipes are bound to happen cause of that. If 1 tanking all those fights were somethign stable the tactic would be alot more popular and it isnt because ppl kinda have to go out of theyre way to do it, in the Garajal case for example you cna egt extra DPS by using 2 heals and keeping both your tanks.

    Most likely whats happening here is your guild has some awesome healers and youre probably quite above average as a tank so you guys manage to pull off some of these pretty unorthodox strategys but dont say these should eb the standard cause they realy shouldnt and 99% of every guild will 2 tank everything next patch.

  2. #42
    Yeah, 1 tanking will is not something I advice. More hassle then it is worth.

    Don't see why our healers must be awesome? We kill the bosses faster with lower raid damage taken. It is actually easier for the healers.

    Though for Gara'Jal, I disagree. All you make sure is that your real tank take the enrage.
    You would be suprised how small the difference is between say a warrior dps and dk tank in damage taken is. I would almost believe that the warrior dps takes less damage than a dk tank on gara'jal. And he will only tank the phases where he is not enraged. So it does not really add any more strain but a shit ton of dps more.
    He does not get smacked in the face nearly as hard as you think.

    Gara'Jal is that case NOW, when people are overgearing it. Earlier in the expansion, 2 healing + 1 tanking was very popular. A lot of first kills used this.
    We used 2 healers + disc + 1 tank on our first kill.

    I never said to 1 tank fights like Will though, was more an unorthodox example.

    The thing is, you are talking about lesser skilled players overgearing the content.
    I am talking about players that actually knows their classes and are not going to progress 3 months later and progressing in content appropriate gear. Huge difference.

    The reason the tactics are not more "popular" was that a lot of the good guilds already used them and killed the bosses. Those that already killed it with different tactics, why bother changing? And the guilds still progressing are not good enough to use them as they actually require people to have a basic understand of their class.

    Fights that can easily and benefitially be one tanked

    Feng
    Gara'Jal
    Elegon(normal)
    Sha(normal)
    Blade-Lord

    Fights that you really should 1 tank

    Spirit Kings
    Vizier(normal)
    Wind Lord
    Protectors
    Tsulong

    Fights that can be, but probably not worth it.

    Dogs(normal)
    Elegon(heroic) - Extremely worth it if you can just pull the adds of, but require exceptional coordination
    Lei-Shi
    Will
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-05 at 01:09 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    We solo tanked gara'jal on our first kill. Simply having a plate dps tanking. The only important thing is to make sure that the real tank tanks during the enrage phase. So depending on your dps that has to be adjusted. It is not solo tanked persay, but you can kill it having only 1 player in tank spec.

    We also found a way to force the same tank going into the spirit realm every single time. This effectively makes you use only 1 tank on the boss though requires a second tank in tank spec.

    So, either you can go 2 tanks, 1 in tank spec and 1 in dps spec, or 1 tank but 2 in tank spec.



    BladeLord - Our druid tank reached over 7 stacks in HC without issues really. Also, you can use the tactic that you have someone capable of taunting off soaking 1 stack to let the tank drop it / soulstone res the tank in the middle of the fight to let him reset stacks. Very easy to solo tank with several viable tactics.


    Sha - There is a way to force 2 dpsers to count as the "tanks" and forcing them to fly out to the platforms every time, making it so that it is 4 dps + healer that goes out each time with a lonely tank standing on the platform never going out.
    Sounds like those tactics only makes it harder than it has to be.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Sounds like those tactics only makes it harder than it has to be.
    As I explained above, when gear levels was lower, it didn't. Now that people overgear the shit, yeah of course it is harder than it needs to be as you can basically kill the bosses stomping your feets on the keyboard.

    Gara'Jal, what is harder than it needs to be? Make sure tanking rotation is so that the real tank takes the last phase.
    The dps kill the adds in spirit realm faster than the tank making that easier. Boss dies faster.
    It is the same healing required as using a dk tank.

    Blade-Lord, yeah, in current gear it makes it harder than it needs to be. Though all it really requires is tank + healers just using CDs for the strike, thats it, nothing more nothing less. If your raid group can't coordinate a cd + and absorb shield to a timer, maybe you should reconsider raiding? Alternatively just a taunt switch.

    Sha - Yeah, the tank standing 5 yards to the right. To gain an additional dps on the platforms. Seems like a lot harder than it needs to be? If you think that is hard, maybe you should try pong instead of raiding?

    Those fights are not the best examples of 1 tanking though, more highlighted those as they are kinda "unorthodox" now that people just bruteforce the fights.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-05 at 01:17 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #45
    You're telling me to try tetris or pong (or whatever you edit to next), yet I killed gara'jal hc first hc week with 2 tanks, and you didn't :>

    You seem like a very agressive fellow who can't handle other peoples response without lashing out.
    Last edited by Proberly; 2013-03-05 at 01:24 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    You're telling me to try tetris, yet I killed gara'jal hc first hc week with 2 tanks, and you didn't :>
    Well, if you think standing 5 yards to the right is a hard mechanic, I dunno, gets one wondering.

    I do not raid for progress anymore, raided with a bunch of IRLs this tier, most of which did not bother to use coins and stuff. Simply do not put a lot of time into WoW anymore. Though most of them are great players. Just put them a lot less effort and time on bosses leaving us undergeared, making enrages even harder for us.

    Though most of us having been in Top5 EU guilds before, progress early is about putting the time and effort into it, not much more. Seen a lot of individually skilled players in guilds barely being in Top5000 being better than players in top50 guilds.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #47
    If your second tank has dc issuues then replace him, but if thats the increase of dps you get from droping one tank then your second tank does like 0 dmg.

    Tank dmg is very high. Bladelord hc tanks do alot of dmg, garalon hc tanks should do 70-90kdps easy, wote hc both tanks should be at 130-160k dps.

    And garajai hc early tanks did alot of dps there and making the fight much harder with another due to healing the offtank. plus dps dmg output by garajai can be raised very high if you have good healers or disc priest/rdruid
    Last edited by Viromand; 2013-03-05 at 01:32 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    If your second tank has dc issuues then replace him, but if thats the increase of dps you get from droping one tank then your second tank does like 0 dmg.

    Tank dmg is very high. Bladelord hc tanks do alot of dmg, garalon hc tanks should do 70-90kdps easy, wote hc both tanks should be at 130-160k dps.

    And garajai hc early tanks did alot of dps there and making the fight much harder with another due to healing the offtank. plus dps dmg output by garajai can be raised very high if you have good healers or disc priest/rdruid
    Rather play with an awesome player that never does a mistake in a million years but sometimes dc than a mediocre player that has good internet connection.

    The thing with 1 tanking is that it increases the damage on the only tank aswell.
    Say tsulong normal. Our tanks were doing like 70-90k when 2 tanking that the first week. We tried 1 tanking. Our tank then pulled 140k dps instead and the additional dps pulled maybe 10-20k more then the tank ~. So that was a gain of about 80k dps.

    Having a top 5 log on Gara'Jal HC as tank, I can say that tanks do not do more damage than dps, ever, on that fight. The tank damage is so low you have no vengeance. Having an additional dps going into the spirit realm getting the 24% buff,is a lot more benefitial. And ofc our healers do damage aswell. Our healers did several millions of damage on Gara'Jal HC. Having resto druid + disc priest is awesome

    Blade-Lord is not really the fight when I think "High tank damage". It is mediocre at best. Especially if tank swapping. If you use 1 tank however, tank damage is insane.

    And yeah, not saying we 1 tank wote HC. That would just be stupid.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 02:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    You seem like a very agressive fellow who can't handle other peoples response without lashing out.
    I live by the rule to treat people like they treat others
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Though for Gara'Jal, I disagree. All you make sure is that your real tank take the enrage.
    You would be suprised how small the difference is between say a warrior dps and dk tank in damage taken is. I would almost believe that the warrior dps takes less damage than a dk tank on gara'jal. And he will only tank the phases where he is not enraged. So it does not really add any more strain but a shit ton of dps more.
    He does not get smacked in the face nearly as hard as you think.

    Will
    A Dk tank definetly takes less damage tham a DPS warrior tanking garajal, if your warrior is going full blown tank, using sword and bord and popping defensive stance youre basically using a half assed tank that dont have nearly as many tools to survive as an actual tank, has less health gets critted alot, dont get any vengence and is attacking the boss from the front getting parried constantly and wasting even more DPS. If hes not using sword and bord tham hell get smashed to bits in half a second, everytime he gets critted your vodoo dolls will take mad damage and your healers will have a hearth attack.

    It works if your healers can heal spike left and right and you desperatly need some extra DPS (wich you dont even get that much for the reasons I posted above) but its definetly not optmal. Also having to make sure the real tank takes the enrage means you have to control DPS if youre going too fast and them youre just sitting there having a non tank warrior getting smacked on the face when you couldve already rolled the boss to the last phase.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    Also having to make sure the real tank takes the enrage means you have to control DPS if youre going too fast and them youre just sitting there having a non tank warrior getting smacked on the face when you couldve already rolled the boss to the last phase.
    In the start of the expansion, it was fairly safe to assume that your were struggling with 6 min enrage. In this case, you would ALWAYS get 4 tanks sent in.

    So it would go Tank - Dps - Tank - Dps - Tank. Always, no exceptions. The only time that you would have to hold dps was if your dps was high enough to beat the enrage easily, in which case, why would you use 1 tank? (Talking about using 1 tank here in terms of beating the enrage).

    Also, I think your overestimate how much damage a plate dps would take on gara'jal. Gara'Jals shadow attacks cant crit for one, and they are the main source of his damage output. Those shadow attacks also smacks a dk just as hard in the face as a dps warrior. Unless you tried to use a dps warrior to tank, I do not think you should really comment on how much damage he takes, as I can say having used on, it is not that much different from a non-block tank.

    Though well, done argueing in this thread. Obviously not the correct demographic here.
    Also derailed the thread quite a bit. This is T15 discussion, not T14. Go on 2 tank everything. Peace.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post

    Though well, done argueing in this thread. Obviously not the correct demographic here.
    Also derailed the thread quite a bit. This is T15 discussion, not T14. Go on 2 tank everything. Peace.
    The target demographic beeing the ppl who try to 1 tank fights you realy shouldnt be 1 tanking and guilds that dont have enought DPS to meet enrage timers that were specifically tuned to be done while having 2 tanks on the team ? Im pretty sure the top of the top guilds were 2 tanking this on the first heroic week.

  12. #52
    Considering our other tank has some RL issues today and won't be ingame until the last hour of the raid, how viable is to one-tank (with a warrior tank) Iron Qon and maybe Twin Consorts (we haven't killed Qon yet)? We do have a holy paladin so we can HoP the debuff on Qon every 2.5 minutes ... and I do know it drops during the tornado phase...
    when should we be using the HoP? at 4-5 stacks?
    What about Twins? I heard people one tanking them, but what about the beast of nightmares + boss? Just chain CDs at this point and use only greatest heals including one LoH?

  13. #53
    Yeah, you can one tank Iron Qon with a warrior + one hpala. Just BoP when first boss reach 50% and every 2.5 minutes after that.
    If he is a dwarf he can remove the stack with Stoneform.
    Twins, dunno, should be possible with a warrior aswell, but not gonna say for sure. Easier with a paladin that can bubble of the fire debuff.
    Not sure if you can do Lei-Shen with a warrior. Know paladins can do it alone but think it is harder for a warrior.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  14. #54
    Iron Qon was damn easy with just 1 tank - even better then using 2 tanks

    And twins were difficult, but doable with a plate dps tanking for 2 debuffs with own CD/pain suppression - though we just made our WW monk go BWM for this fight... much easier

    Lei-Shen we did around 1.5 hour of tries and got him to 35%... going to kill him next reset hopefully

    Thanks a lot

  15. #55
    The Patient Nedda's Avatar
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    None of the fights can be done with only 1 tank or 3 heals, at least on heroic. This is ridiculous.

    I only raid 25mans though. Badum tss.

  16. #56
    Doesnt 25's 1 tank Durumu HC?
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  17. #57
    Durumu can be one-tanked if you have I think 3 Paladins. All the other require 2, except possibly Ra-den since I have no idea what he does.

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