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  1. #21
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    I don't like the feel of unholy...

    Firstly, they didn't fix ghouls, they are still weak and other players can kill them quickly.. you're a sitting duck after that.

    Second, there is no "BOOM!" ability, but there is one on frost (KM+oblit). These abilities are really helpful where burst is needed quickly.

    Also, adding to the ghoul weakness... conversion and that other crappy talent still suck, so you have to choose death pact which makes your ghoul even weaker.

    Words to live by.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire Machomaije's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    I don't like the feel of unholy...

    Firstly, they didn't fix ghouls, they are still weak and other players can kill them quickly.. you're a sitting duck after that.

    Second, there is no "BOOM!" ability, but there is one on frost (KM+oblit). These abilities are really helpful where burst is needed quickly.

    Also, adding to the ghoul weakness... conversion and that other crappy talent still suck, so you have to choose death pact which makes your ghoul even weaker.
    You ghoul doesnt do very much of your damage. The only thing your ghould brings is a stun. So no, your not a sitting duck if your ghoul get killed. And, you can heal your ghoul up with 2 death coils without any problems.
    Soul Reaper is a pretty nice "BOOM" ability. Also, playing unholy you dont really go for the "BOOM ONESHOT" kills. You put pressure on the healers untill the stage where they dont have anything more to come with, and have to try to get a cast. Thats when you go for the kill. Thats why shadowcleave is a very good setup for UHdks. Slowly kills the entire enemy team, untill the healer either goes oom, or doesn have enough gcds to get people up.

  3. #23
    Personally speaking for RBG I have been having success going frost for flag spinning games and unholy for all others.

    WSG, Twin Peaks, Mines, Temple = Unholy
    Arathi, Eye, Gilneas = Frost.

    Reasoning is that Unholy lives a lot longer than Frost while doing the same aoe pressure and control that frost does in non flag games. In flag games my main job is to call targets, grip, mass grip and spin the flag. Flag spinning is the only thing that frost is better at than unholy in RBG.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Machomaije View Post
    Difference is that you actually have to watch your runes as Unholy, to keep up damage and pressure you need to use your uh runes for scourge strikes, and death runes for necrotic. You also need to keep converting runes to death runes
    If only it was just that... I'd play Unholy immediately! Sadly, lil' Timmy suck out of all the fun of the spec for me. If only we had a talent to sacrifice the pet permanently like Warlocks...

  5. #25
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neave View Post
    Death Coil costs Runic Power, generated from attacking. Howling Blast costs runes which regen automatically. it's impossible to spam DC by itself without spending runes. and theres much more to unholy than diseases.

    right now, if you do anything but open up with two Festering Strikes, you're absolutely screwed and set behind by a lot of time waiting to get a second chance of Reaping. thats a deadly mistake in PVP. Frost has no such situation. we cant just "spread diseases", it takes some thought and planning.
    Why are you comparing Howling Blast to Death Coil? No sane Frost DK would even spend Frost Runes on Howling Blast. They would use those runes or rime procs on Icy Touch to purge. You should be comparing Death Coil to Frost Strike which have the same function, expect one requires melee range to do anything. You can't even spam howling blast either unless you're stupid and want to have no opportunity to apply Ice of Chains or Obliterate.

    Only using Festering Strike to apply Reaping and acting like spreading plagues through blood boil takes planning is a joke. Is it really much of a penalty to have three runes as death and one frost rune as a frost rune when you're saving up Blood Tap charges? Its unrealistic to think that an Unholy DK has to use Festering Strike twice before using Ice of Chains or Blood Boil and you can only apply plagues through Outbreak.

    And yeah Frost does have situations with rune management. You can't just spam icy touch/howling blast or use blood boil whenever you want without losing Obliterate. Not to mention that Frost has to always be in melee range to do anything while Unholy can LOL dot pressure without touching anybody and re gain runes 2 seconds faster than Frost.

    And now that icy touch is applied to reaping, Festering Strike becomes useless. Now you can spam icy touch twice as unholy, mindlessly purging while mindlessly spreading plagues with blood boil spam twice. Why would anyone use Festering Strike when its incredibly easy to apply plagues through plague strike. Plague Strike won't screw up your rune system because it costs an Unholy rune.

    I really don't understand the secret difficulty that people claim about Unholy. It isn't hard nor is Frost. Why does skill cap even matter anyway? People have this misconception that if you play a class or spec with a higher skill cap, then you're a better player.

  6. #26
    I was right there with you until the skillcap part. Unholy does require more skill than frost does, it just does. Frost has to manage their runes as well, that is part of being a DK and partly what separates good from bad. Unholy though has a higher skill cap because they have to effectively manage the pet, as well as do all the other stuff. unholy has to also manage necro stacks and manage the soul reaper well too. When I talk about the pet, I mean keeping it powered up as much as possible which like pve requires pooling, moving the pet around manually to do things like eat possible traps and move to range in order to silence/root as well as managing the stun.

    I am not against frost, it does what it is supposed to do which is a ton of front loaded damage. Unholy is one of those specs that shines more doing the slow game where you are putting the other team under constant pressure and forcing bad position. Sadly, this season and probably next season too are all about damage in quick bursts into cced targets.

  7. #27
    Thanks for suggestions guys.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Why are you comparing Howling Blast to Death Coil?
    it was referring to the situation of being kited and how to deal with it. you can spam Howling Blast, but not Death Coil[COLOR="red"]
    Last edited by Neave; 2013-03-01 at 02:36 PM.

  9. #29
    Thanks for the good feedback guys, a great discussion here.
    I did respec to Unholy on live to play around and test things in preparation and I can already see where the upcoming changes will go a long way to solve the issues that plague the spec (no pun intended)

    Right now my biggest bugbear with 2h Frost is the way control (Chains, HB chiliblains) and Dispels which are required vs certain classes all eat into damage with OB being so high priority. HB though remains awesome against groups though and I do miss it as UH.

    With Unholy getting IT to allow for Death Runes and Plague strike applying frost fever (and thus a chiliblains snare) a lot more room is freed up for Necrotics on those casters.

    Burst is superior for frost on live with Pillar, but I have a strong feeling the buffs to Gary will give Unholy more oomph when used with UH Frenzy due to Runic power able to be used on coils instead of just powering him. The strang buff also is going to be awesome for annoying those casters even more.

    As others have said the biggest downside is the pet a few macros can make him less unwieldy but its still something I will have to learn to deal with.

    All in all though it is looking promising, I wonder if we will see many more UH DKs running around the BGs making casters/healers lives a misery.

  10. #30
    in 5.2 I do more damage in arena as unholy than frost, and it's a longer learning curve to master it, but it sure is a hellova lot more rewarding! In the end, it's way better.

  11. #31
    I been playing unholy in BGs for a few weeks and I will still be top damage, just not top KB anymore. Also anytime I go 1v1 with a frost DK he always loses rather poorly. I think it will gain more acceptance as the season goes on, but for those of you that want to play unholy in RBG just don't tell them you are unholy until after the game and they see the numbers. I would still recommend frost for flag spinning, but that is about it.

  12. #32
    I've been playing Unholy on the PTR (for arena) because I hate the idea of playing frost in Blood Pres, unholy is less hindered by it.
    One thing that made huge impression on me while playing was the strength of Necrotic Strike... I would be surprised if it doesn't get hotfix nerfed at some point. It seems to scale awesomely with PvP power. (at least my impression)

  13. #33
    @ cephqt Yes I also noticed in ptr arena that necrotic strikes were amaaaaazing, I totally love it and I hope it stays that way haha I was suprised that it went so well.

  14. #34
    Due to the Fact my mains a Hunter and I chose a DK in the first place to play a 50/50 Spell/Melle class I'll be staying with my Frost spec. For one reason I really enjoy it and the other being that my main is a Hunter and I don't want another pet based class >.<

    Not that this reason will effect any of you but I don't like the idea of a melle based class having a pet, It doesn't feel right to me.

    What I'd like to know is roughly in percentage how much of a DPS increase will Frost and Unholy get? For example if i did 80k DPS single target on Lei Shei Normal and after buffs I did 88k DPS, thats a 10% increase in damage.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Axlack View Post
    What I'd like to know is roughly in percentage how much of a DPS increase will Frost and Unholy get? For example if i did 80k DPS single target on Lei Shei Normal and after buffs I did 88k DPS, thats a 10% increase in damage.

    I dont believe Frost would be better than Unholy on Lei Shi. given all the moments where youre out of range of melee attacking for seconds here and there, DoTs and your pet keep rolling. i used this same thinking for Ultraxion (action button phase out) and Yorsahj in DS.

    finding her during hide is a little better done by an Unholy DK since were forced to do point-blank aoe and our blood boil fits better for us than Frost spec boiling. and you pet will attack her ghost, while we cant


    may just come down to preference.

  16. #36
    Epic! Bosbeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machomaije View Post
    and Frost is a 3 button class, which makes it easy for them to play. Yes, 3 buttons. Dont even try to argue with that.
    A minimum of 5 buttons atleast.

    But yea UH will be better for Arenas because the diseases and the pets will do moderate dmg.
    Frost will be best for BGs because of teh huge crits it can accomplish.

  17. #37
    High Overlord
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    Just sayin' gary an tommy aint got their begalmeal so imma say dw frost whats up dog?


    User received an infraction for this post.
    Last edited by Nangz; 2013-03-03 at 06:31 PM.

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