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  1. #441
    Point to threaten, shoot to make the person incapable of being a theat (which is hopefully not a death). But in that situation I would just hide and call the police. Nothing in my house would ever be worth more than someones life unless it's the life of whoever is staying over at my house (including pets)

  2. #442
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I've already stated once in this thread that I feel the spider in my living room has more a right to life than a human who has broken in.

    I'm really not sure how much more clear I can be regarding my opinion on the matter.
    I understand and i'm not against your opinion, the problem is... that you prefer to kill someone than make a hole in the wall of your house.

  3. #443
    Shoot to kill and make sure hes dead. No question if he comes into my house with a knife or gun, I know he intends to cause bodily harm or to kill me if they are brandishing a weapon.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by koekai View Post
    Point to threaten, shoot to make the person incapable of being a theat (which is hopefully not a death). But in that situation I would just hide and call the police. Nothing in my house would ever be worth more than someones life unless it's the life of whoever is staying over at my house (including pets)
    I mean, even myself, something folks might call a 'gun-nut' would consider this. If my family was safe, I'd arm myself and take an advantageous position and just stay put and call the cops. Moving about and actively engaging a trespasser when I have my life and my family's lives already best secured yields some of that advantage. If they walked down the hall towads us, it's a split-second decision - hopefully I'd hear them coming and announce that I'm armed and will shoot if they come any close before they get line of sight on my position, and that'd be it.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I've already stated once in this thread that I feel the spider in my living room has more a right to life than a human who has broken in.

    I'm really not sure how much more clear I can be regarding my opinion on the matter.
    this is why the rest of the world hates Americans, they act like one human life is more important then another and no matter what the reasons behind it is this is never true.

  6. #446
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glassmage View Post
    Shoot to kill and make sure hes dead. No question if he comes into my house with a knife or gun, I know he intends to cause bodily harm or to kill me if they are brandishing a weapon.
    Well, yeah but don't make sure hes dead..., cause if you shoot someone that is incapacitated on the floor and is no longer a threat you can go to jail... because in that was not self defense... that was murder..., for example:

    There was a case where a 2 kids (16 years or so) got into a house to steal, but the owner found them and shoot them, he killed one and injured the second, but when the other kid was in the floor he shooted again in the head..., that was not self defense anymore, he could have just called the police... and wait checking him from a certain distance to make sure he won't do anything strange.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-28 at 04:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by barnaby View Post
    this is why the rest of the world hates Americans, they act like one human life is more important then another and no matter what the reasons behind it is this is never true.
    I agree but it is a Laize said, he can do anything to defend himself but there's no right reason to shoot someone who's incapacitated, that just out of anger or just to be cruel

  7. #447
    If there is an intruder, and I have a gun, I will be shooting to disable.
    Having trained a lot with firearms while I was in the Norwegian Navy, if this is an amateur break-in, then disabling him/her shouldn't be to difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crabby
    I'm Commander Crabby, and this is my favorite forum on the website.

  8. #448
    If someone is invading my home at night, I can only assume they know I am home. As a result the invader is not in my home to nice or kind. He is not there to show me or my family mercy or respect. He is there to do great and terrible harm. If its a choice between him and me or my family, there is no question or hesitation.

    In that situation, I have a .45 with seven shots. All seven are going out the angry end of the gun. Each will be shot with the intent to kill. Each will be aimed center mass. Its between him and his almighty what happens next.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by barnaby View Post
    this is why the rest of the world hates Americans, they act like one human life is more important then another and no matter what the reasons behind it is this is never true.
    You can love us or you can hate us, but we're not going anywhere.

    And what's true or not in terms of valuing one human life over another is a matter of opinion.

    It's undeniable that you feel some human lives are more valuable than others.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by barnaby View Post
    this is why the rest of the world hates Americans, they act like one human life is more important then another and no matter what the reasons behind it is this is never true.
    I feel like that ignores the subjective, biologically imperative truth that when another thing poses a deliberate threat to the life of a person, that thing's life is no longer viewed as anything (not even equal) but a threat.

    This is not an American concept. It's a hard-wired fact that's ensured the survival of the species and underpins natural selection.

    Past that, I'm not sure you'd find many that would equate the importance of the lives of Ghandi, Ann Frank, and Martin Luther King Jr. with somebody like Stalin. Further on that, there's plenty of the rest fo the world that goes much further than Americans on this. Sudan, Syria, and many other countries have far more extreme and widespread discrimination based on factors far less deliberate than "he poses an immediate threat to my life".

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by Stede View Post
    I feel like that ignores the subjective, biologically imperative truth that when another thing poses a deliberate threat to the life of a person, that thing's life is no longer viewed as anything (not even equal) but a threat.

    This is not an American concept. It's a hard-wired fact that's ensured the survival of the species and underpins natural selection.

    Past that, I'm not sure you'd find many that would equate the importance of the lives of Ghandi, Ann Frank, and Martin Luther King Jr. with somebody like Stalin. Further on that, there's plenty of the rest fo the world that goes much further than Americans on this. Sudan, Syria, and many other countries have far more extreme and widespread discrimination based on factors far less deliberate than "he poses an immediate threat to my life".
    It's not even just that.

    You can say there are 2 humans suspended by rope over a vat of acid. One is your mother and the other is a random hobo on the side of the street. Given 30 seconds to choose (or they both fall in the vat of acid) you have to pick one who survives.

    The only way to accurately demonstrate that "all human lives are equal" is to randomize which person you pick... but everyone fucking knows you'll save your mom. Thus no one truly views all human lives equal.

  12. #452
    Shoot to injure... the feeling of having killed someone, even if he intruded on my home, would be unbearable.
    Beauty > Personality

  13. #453
    Stood in the Fire
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    Well if hes threatening me with knife, ofcourse ill kill him. He could have a weapon hed use if i just shot to injure.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    It's not even just that.

    You can say there are 2 humans suspended by rope over a vat of acid. One is your mother and the other is a random hobo on the side of the street. Given 30 seconds to choose (or they both fall in the vat of acid) you have to pick one who survives.

    The only way to accurately demonstrate that "all human lives are equal" is to randomize which person you pick... but everyone fucking knows you'll save your mom. Thus no one truly views all human lives equal.
    I mean - I'd still feel bad for the hobo, and I'd be really pissed at whoever put me in that situation.

  15. #455
    If said criminal is holding a gun I will most definitely shoot to kill, I wouldn't take any chances. If he's holding a knife, I'd shoot to injure because what can he do with a knife anyway if I have a gun... In fact I might not even shoot, just threaten to shoot to get him out.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by barnaby View Post
    this is why the rest of the world hates Americans, they act like one human life is more important then another and no matter what the reasons behind it is this is never true.
    You may hate America and Americans but that is your own small-mindedness. Generalizing Americans doesn't make sense because we are, by far, the most individualistic society in our modern world where there are a great variety of people. Some Americans will not ever touch a weapon. Some own 30 firearms.

    I've been to about 15 countries so far for work. Most of them (non-European) ones are emulating America. Road signs in english, watching our movies, dressing like our famous persons.

  17. #457
    Dreadlord
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    Aim for the chest/stomach area (center mass). Perp wouldn't give you a warning shot/leg wound, why offer such niceties to someone who breaks into your home and threatens you with bodily harm.
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries.

  18. #458
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    You ALWAYS shoot to kill, any Law enforcement officer or anyone in the Military will confirm this. An injured man is still a threat.
    This is not true... At least not even for Police in Germany....

    This is the law in regards of Police and the use of firearms...

    http://dejure.org/gesetze/PolG/54.html
    (2) Ein Schuß, der mit an Sicherheit grenzender Wahrscheinlichkeit tödlich wirken wird, ist nur zulässig, wenn er das einzige Mittel zur Abwehr einer gegenwärtigen Lebensgefahr oder der gegenwärtigen Gefahr einer schwerwiegenden Verletzung der körperlichen Unversehrtheit ist.
    Translation: A shot, which is eventually deadly, is only allowed if it is the only resource of defense to prevent life threat, or to prevent a high danger of severe injury.

    I simplified the translation, since it's pretty much bureaucrat German..

    But facing an intruder itself does not warrant either of the two scenarios. Especially not if the intruder would be unarmed. German law requires to disable the target rather than killing it. So in case of Germany.. you always shoot NOT to kill. You don't want to find your own ass in prison over killing a robber.
    And I know if for sure, because the German cops I know personally, always said that too. You have to aim for legs, arms and stuff, to take the target out.

  19. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    A blunderbuss is superior to any billhook and has the added bonus of being useful for getting rid of old rusty nuts, bolts and screws.
    Better yet, arm half your family with muskets, and the other half with billhooks to protect your musketeers from cavalry and heavy infantry.

  20. #460
    Warchief Reqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    Better yet, arm half your family with muskets, and the other half with billhooks to protect your musketeers from cavalry and heavy infantry.
    Grapeshot > All.

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