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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    Well I do agree with the healer, but we had to pug an OT this week and it was the first druid I have seen the entire xpac, he did very well. And I play Ret as MS, they just need to fix our cool downs and give us more static DPS, but currently I am very high on DPS.
    My ret is at ~506 ilvl alongside the rest of my guild and it bursts really really well but falls off horribly in the sustained DPS department.

    Agreed that cooldowns vs. static DPS needs a fix. There isn't a whole lot of reason not to be a DW Frost DK or a Fury Warrior instead for a plate DPS at the moment.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    My ret is at ~506 ilvl alongside the rest of my guild and it bursts really really well but falls off horribly in the sustained DPS department.

    Agreed that cooldowns vs. static DPS needs a fix. There isn't a whole lot of reason not to be a DW Frost DK or a Fury Warrior instead for a plate DPS at the moment.
    We swapped out our Frost DK for a Ret Pally on our first H Imperial Vizier kill because having 6 BoPs (Prot Pally, Holy Pally, Ret Pally) trivialized Phase 2 by allowing us to ignore the echo and just zerg the boss.

    Ret Pally DPS may be lacking, but Paladin utility is crazy good.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    We swapped out our Frost DK for a Ret Pally on our first H Imperial Vizier kill because having 6 BoPs (Prot Pally, Holy Pally, Ret Pally) trivialized Phase 2 by allowing us to ignore the echo and just zerg the boss.

    Ret Pally DPS may be lacking, but Paladin utility is crazy good.
    Yea there's situational stuff like that. I was just saying in general.

    I'm not even trying to say Ret Pallys are bad. I think everything is viable in one way or another. They're just a bit lacking. That's all.

  4. #64
    ret dps is bad? 450k+ on windlord, around 130k @ any other boss, thats "the worst dps" those days? all in 10m

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by hir0shima View Post
    ret dps is bad? 450k+ on windlord, around 130k @ any other boss, thats "the worst dps" those days? all in 10m
    Comparatively to most other DPS specs in the same gear and same skill level, yes, it is bad.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    Comparatively to most other DPS specs in the same gear and same skill level, yes, its the same.
    Fixed that for you

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by hir0shima View Post
    Fixed that for you
    It's not the same. If you're "around 130k", while equal gear/skilled players in other specs are "around 135k", how is that the same?

    Seriously it's ridiculous that you don't comprehend this.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    Especially now that every fight has tight enrage timers.
    Most fights don't actually. Generally you're going to wipe to mechanics first. ESPECIALLY now that everyone basically overgears any progression they're on at the moment.

  9. #69
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorant View Post
    And yet #1 ranked guild in the world is using (and used during progress) all of those (although resto druid only occasionally if 3 healing) when they all have alts to switch?

    Sounds strange to me.

    It's hard to put classes to any particular order when it depends so much on the encounter but this is my 10 cents regarding 10man:

    Worst healer: Resto Shaman
    Worst Tank: At start it was warrior but now with better gear warrior works much better so I say monk.
    Worst DPS: This is hardest due to encounter mechanics but I say MM hunter
    I tend to agree with this from a 10 man PoV as well.

    To the people who say that Resto and Guardian Druids are the worst, my guild have managed to clear 15/16 Heroic with a Resto and a Guardian lol. I guess it really depends, if we're talking the average derp players or the players who can get the most out of their character.

    Cause I've seen our Resto Druid do amazing numbers, where others would have told us never to bring one in the first place. Also, it isn't really fair just to take classes out of context. For instance, bringing a Resto Druid and a Resto Shaman with a Disc Priest to Heroic Lei Shi was just epic. Running Tranq via Symbiosis, Ancestral Walking or w/e it is Shamans have that lets them run and heal. Do you realize how epic that combo is?

    At the beginning when we were starting on Heroic progress, I would use my Symbiosis on the Prot Pala. He gained Wrath as Protection and before the nerf to Wrath, he would top the meter at the beginning of the fight, just spamming Wrath.

    I guess if you talk output alone, then Resto, Guardian, Balance aren't the best but the utility they bring (specially in a 10 man group) can't always be measured in raw output. Just recently we completely derped on Heroic Kings, and the only ones alive was the Prot warrior, a Ret Pala, Boomkin and Feral. We stayed alive and killed the boss from 15%. Had it been Warlock, Mage and Rogue alive, it would have been a wipe. Again, you can't always just measure classes/specs in raw output.

    Edit: Our Resto Shaman ranked 4 on Heroic Garalon with 92k HPS on our first kill, OP Spirit Link, Mana Tide, Healing Tide, Ank makes Resto Shamans stronger than both Holy Priests, Monks and Resto Druids imo.
    Last edited by Danishpsycho; 2013-02-28 at 05:47 PM.

  10. #70
    Field Marshal 86d's Avatar
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    Personally the game feels so balanced now I couldn't tell you. Blizzard has done a great job.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by hir0shima View Post
    Fixed that for you
    This isn't a thread for biases. You seem to be one of those players who think their class is super great, and do the whole ear closed LALALA thing when you're told otherwise.

    Kind of sad to see some of these. The only class I enjoy tanking with is druid, and they also happen to be my second favourite healing class... right behind resto shaman. My only 90 healer is a pally, and she is actually pretty strong, so it looks like I'll be sticking with her. Not really a fan of damage healing, so I don't really care for disc.

    As for dps, I'm willing to admit it may be user error, but the aforementioned pally as ret? AWFUL. She has like a 455 ilvl for her ret set, but the dps is just abysmal. Glad to see it wasn't entirely in my imagination. I haven't been too impressed with rogues lately. One did recently manage to go ~10k higher than my usually chart stomping hunter, but the rogue outgeared me by about 15 ilvls. Put us in even gear and I'm curious what that would have looked like (not touting the hunter so much as questioning the rogue).

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    It's not the same. If you're "around 130k", while equal gear/skilled players in other specs are "around 135k", how is that the same?

    Seriously it's ridiculous that you don't comprehend this.
    how much is that 5k diffrence? 1-2 RNG? 1-2 non crits? seems to be only 3,8%, ur random god gives u more dps per fight then this.

    Quote Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post
    This isn't a thread for biases. You seem to be one of those players who think their class is super great, and do the whole ear closed LALALA thing when you're told otherwise.

    Kind of sad to see some of these. The only class I enjoy tanking with is druid, and they also happen to be my second favourite healing class... right behind resto shaman. My only 90 healer is a pally, and she is actually pretty strong, so it looks like I'll be sticking with her. Not really a fan of damage healing, so I don't really care for disc.

    As for dps, I'm willing to admit it may be user error, but the aforementioned pally as ret? AWFUL. She has like a 455 ilvl for her ret set, but the dps is just abysmal. Glad to see it wasn't entirely in my imagination. I haven't been too impressed with rogues lately. One did recently manage to go ~10k higher than my usually chart stomping hunter, but the rogue outgeared me by about 15 ilvls. Put us in even gear and I'm curious what that would have looked like (not touting the hunter so much as questioning the rogue).
    oh no im not biased, and no i dont think my class is uber great, its sustained sucks alot, burst is too high. But the truth is, if u know how to play ret, its a good dps. But if ur class resreach goes as far as reading someones guide, especially those that arent focused on boosting rets strong sides even more (link EJ site here), no wonder its worst dps for u.

    Funny how ppl see and belive in some numbers simcrafted by someone, even tho they couldnt get sim working for ret (was added @ last). Did u even check those numbers out? u can simply import ur character, run the sim, get a result (patchwerk, 2nd form top skill cap). Then u can go dummy in any town, that isnt debuffed by others even, and see more dps in 5min fight then simcraft just counted for u.
    Last edited by hir0shima; 2013-02-28 at 06:10 PM.

  13. #73
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    From personal playing of Warrior, Bear, Protadin & Monkadrunk the bear feels the weakest, also from the LFR & other raiding I have done with all the tanks DK feels the most OP currently with Prota coming second.

    Problem with bear it doesnt offer enough assistance to the raid, warrior has HP shout, Monk has its gaurd shield, prot has its raid wide damage reduction buff, for the person who said DK offers nothing forgot about the bubble they can put down for the melee group (anti magic shell?), the druid gets RUN SPEED BOOST!, only been good on the first 2 bosses in HoF, doesnt feel powerful enough, aside from keeping a boss on you, it feels as though you cant do much else to help the raid out (granted the 45 second heal talent helps but...)

    DPS wise, I have seen bad booms & good booms, it seems to be one of the harder ones to get the rotation down, cat spec I always struggle to get any kind of energy regen, rogue spec is severly undergeared (i was outperforming our rogue even when his gear was 15-20 ilvls higher), and hear that ele shaman & seen that ret isnt great.
    TBH, personal flavor (as I have one), would say rogue currently for pve.

    Healing, the wife has a disc priest, restosham & restodudu, even with their "toolkit" the dudu feels the weakest, and even in raids it feels too lightweight compared to the rest. Also MW because it forces the healer in to melee range and basically be an equivilent of disc but via fists instead can be very difficult to play, looking at parses it seems to be one of the last picked healing classes.

    So my feelings are bear, tree & rogue

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-28 at 06:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hir0shima View Post
    how much is that 5k diffrence? 1-2 RNG? 1-2 non crits? seems to be only 3,8%, ur random god gives u more dps per fight then this.



    oh no im not biased, and no i dont think my class is uber great, its sustained sucks alot, burst is too high. But the truth is, if u know how to play ret, its a good dps. But if ur class resreach goes as far as reading someones guide, especially those that arent focused on boosting rets strong sides even more (link EJ site here), no wonder its worst dps for u.
    Still this is an emotive situation where people are giving their personal feelings of what is good/bad.

    For every good player you come across there are lots of bad, also depends on how many classes you have played.

    I have a protadin with ret offspec and I find it more enjoyable and higher dps to grind quests in tank spec, not as squishy and higher dps (i suck at ret - but its a spiky build, hoping on CD's & procs).

  14. #74
    Brewmaster Cairm's Avatar
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    A holy priest....a prot warrior and a marksman hunter walks in a bar...

  15. #75
    Resto Druid, Guardian Druid, Feral Druid probably.

    If you think DK's are bad/welfare, chances are you're horrendous at the class.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    now
    Resto druid, guardian druids, ret paladins

    5.2
    shamans, DK's, too early to tell for dps.
    What's happening to shaman's in 5.2 to knock them down?

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by dawawe View Post
    Worst tank... mages.
    worst healers... rogues
    worst dps...... prot pally
    You've got that right...but imo worst dps is resto druid / holy paladin or guardian druid
    Main: Wildmax, Drak'thul - Moonkin, Hardcore raider.
    Got 10x lvl 85 on Drak'thul server and 3 another lvl 85 on different servers and bunch of 10-84 alts.
    Hello no-life.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by hir0shima View Post
    how much is that 5k diffrence? 1-2 RNG? 1-2 non crits? seems to be only 3,8%, ur random god gives u more dps per fight then this.

    If this is a serious post then there is no way you've raided in a serious heroic progression guild.

  19. #79
    Stood in the Fire Satanous's Avatar
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    Honestly it feels very close all around, only reason I quit my Guardian was I hate how they feel to tank now.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    If this is a serious post then there is no way you've raided in a serious heroic progression guild.
    if u mean guilds like paragon/method, then no i havent been in top 10. Still sha hc is dead pre "get ur cutting edge achivs now" date.

    If u think they can totally eliminate the random aspect from the dps POV game, then u cant be serious. If someone cant understand that simple random can be up to 10-15% of someones output, then sry u r too elite for me I will never be as good as u are as dps and eliminate the rng in 100% cases. U r now my guru, whats ur ingame name so i would know who to workship?

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