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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by stiglet View Post
    Sim your character, you'll find probably that haste value is > 0.5 Intellect. If this is true, replace orange with yellow.
    I'm crossposting this from H2P because it is important -- just doing a standard sim is going to lead people astray and tell them to not gem Haste.



    The way that SimC generates stat weights is fairly simple. It first runs a the profile you've provided without any changes to determine the DPS it can do. After that, it runs the profile again for each stat that you wish to get a weight for. It does this by adding 1000 to the value, re-running it, and then computing the difference between the two, then, dividing it by the offset value (1000).

    Example: I run my profile and get 100,000 DPS. I run the scale factor for Int (by the system adding 1000 Int to my profile) and get 105,000 DPS. To get the scale factor for Int, I use this formula:

    Code:
    (105000 - 100000) / 1000 = 5.00
    So my scaling factor for Int is 5. I do the same for Haste, Crit, Mastery, and Spell Power.

    Hit/Spirit is a little different. Because Hit is cap-able, if I add more on to a capped profile I won't see any difference. SimC knows this, so it subtracts 1000 and runs the profiles in the exact same way.


    Why is this important? For Shadow Priests, we are very dependent on Haste and, more specifically, Haste Breakpoints, for maximizing our DPS right now. When SimC computes the scaling value of Haste, any breakpoints we've already passed are ignored and, unless there is a breakpoint within the next 1000 haste rating of your character, will sim lower than it does in reality.

    For my BiS lists, I'm running sims to generate scaling factors both the normal +1000 way, but also doing some downscaling (-1000) to properly account for these breakpoints affecting Haste.

    This isn't to say that the value that SimC is giving you is wrong, just that if you get 1000 secondary stats to put in to Haste, Mastery, or Crit, you'll get the biggest result out of putting them in to Mastery. It IS NOT saying that Haste is terrible and you should dump as much as possible.

    If you want to try simming the downscaling, you can add this to the top of your profile (above the "actionlist=")

    Code:
    calculate_scale_factors=1
    scale_only=intellect,spell_power,haste,mastery,crit,hit
    scale_intellect=-1000
    scale_spell_power=-1000
    scale_haste_rating=-1000
    scale_mastery_rating=-1000
    scale_crit_rating=-1000
    scale_hit_rating=-1000

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by sashjke View Post
    Should i ignore item gem bonuses?
    If its not haste or int, I personally would.

    Quote Originally Posted by ek9red View Post
    So I'm 516ilvl and I should replace my oranges in yellow quicks now ?
    Yes... Once you are above 507 go for yellow 320 haste, reds 80 int 160, blue 160 hit/spirit 160 haste. I can't say with 100 % certainty but if the socket bonus isn't int/haste I would just gem a 320 haste.

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  3. #83
    Field Marshal Alidie's Avatar
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    Replaced all my reckless with quick and the int+spirit gems with haste+spirit gems in my gear (512 ilvl), sitting on ~28k spellpower (self buffed) and 10589 haste atm.

    Good or bad? I have no idea. I've had trouble finding a good "yes or no" answer anywhere so I decided to just go for haste and see what happens.
    And the other stats where I could, I went with crit but something in my head really wants to go with mastery. Thoughts?

  4. #84
    Did you even read this thread or the links I posted to H2P :/

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  5. #85
    Field Marshal Alidie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    Did you even read this thread or the links I posted to H2P :/
    I do! But I just cannot see a simple: DO this - don't do this, anywhere!

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Alidie View Post
    I do! But I just cannot see a simple: DO this - don't do this, anywhere!
    Really.......................?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    Anything above 505/507 I would gem full haste. .
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    You should be gemming for haste if you are above 507 ilvl regardless
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I've been saying 505-507 because thats when you start hitting around 30k spell power and your secondary stats start scaling really well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    There's a few things the effect it, spell power, ilvl, and fight mechanics. These generally effect haste more than talents. For the most part the largest factor is spell power. I'd say right now as a general rule of thumb, that ~507ish ilvl is a good time to start gemming haste.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    If you ilvl is less than 507ish nothing has changed for you.
    Wow.... that was hard, im so glad, in this post alone, there has yet to be any indication of what you should do now. Let alone the posts i liked on H2P




    sometimes i really jsut wonder how.....

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  7. #87
    fwiw haste is my lowest simming stat right now (even with negative delta), however the stats are very very close. Playing around with fight length is making a significant difference to the weights, I assume this is due to PI uptime but I really can't say for sure.
    at 514 ilvl. so well above the 507 suggested. Will continue staying with int gems for now until I see some more conclusive sims

    regemmed to full haste, still above 30k spell power with inner fire (should be even more with food + flask as panda). simmed DPS went down (by 544, nothing massive).
    Maybe I need to play around somewhat with different fight types in simcraft but I'm also aware that the fights spriests really shine this tier are fights that allow us to maximise the last tier talents, none of which benefit greatly from haste.

    Bit of a conundrum now if to go back to int gems or stay the course until I can reach 14848
    Last edited by Redsparowe; 2013-03-13 at 12:28 AM.
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  8. #88
    Field Marshal Alidie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    Lots of quotes
    Please, I'm not an idiot. What I ment was more.. Before gemming into the haste I had 30k spellpower - gemming to haste got me to ~28k spellpower.

    Also been abit confused because here it says haaaaste everrrrywhere but going through like, the BiS lists, counting t14 aswell (perhaps not just updated with it?) but like, most red gems still have the red gem in them instead of (at least orange) . um, hard to explain how I want this question to be formulated but for the love of god, don't assume anyone with a stupid sounding question is a retard.

    Also I want to know why ya'll are talking about the 10124 when you can go for the recommended 10437 ? :O
    Last edited by Alidie; 2013-03-12 at 11:28 PM.

  9. #89
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    It's roughly (tl;dnr simple guide):

    Below ~505 ilvl: Brilliant, Purified and Reckless
    Between 505 - 515 ilvl: Reckless, Energized and Quick
    Above ~515 ilvl: All Quick except to get Haste and Intellect socket bonuses

    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1701#gem

  10. #90
    Simmed my char at 506, came up with 0.5 int per haste weighting, so frmercury's rough guide works for me at least.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    It's roughly (tl;dnr simple guide):

    Below ~505 ilvl: Brilliant, Purified and Reckless
    Between 505 - 515 ilvl: Reckless, Energized and Quick
    Above ~515 ilvl: All Quick except to get Haste and Intellect socket bonuses

    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1701#gem
    at 514ilvl I had haste simming at <0.5
    gone for haste anyway as I was experimenting and the difference was negligible but I am now simming about 500dps less than with int gems
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  12. #92
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    at 514ilvl I had haste simming at <0.5
    gone for haste anyway as I was experimenting and the difference was negligible but I am now simming about 500dps less than with int gems
    And how did you set-up Simcraft? Did you do a +-1000 secondary stat for weights? Did you Sim all 9 Talent combos in all fight types? How many iterations?

    The simple answer is either to trust the ~24 hours of Simming that brought about this thoerycrafting or step up to the plate and knock out your own serious Simming.

    MoP Simming is a different beast than it was before. You can't just plug yourself in and 5 minutes later expect to have anything that means anything.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    It's roughly (tl;dnr simple guide):

    Below ~505 ilvl: Brilliant, Purified and Reckless
    Between 505 - 515 ilvl: Reckless, Energized and Quick
    Above ~515 ilvl: All Quick except to get Haste and Intellect socket bonuses

    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1701#gem
    That is if you are able to get to the 10124 haste point though? I got quite alot of gear last reset, but all not very optimal gear. Almost no haste. I simmed my character (not a real simcraft hero, so I may have done it wrong). It simmed me with less DPS if I replaced the gems in the 505+ gear with the reckless/ energized and quick gems (keeping bonusses intact and non intact if it wasn't haste/ intellect). So I'm keeping my haste at 8085 till the moment I'm able to even get remotely close to 10124 as I'm about 9.6k or so I believe with haste. Though I think I might be simming completely wrong, as I said not really a simcraft hero:

    This is how I'm gemmed currently as it gave me the better simcraft results at the time, though now I'm reading all kinds of settings you can do within it?:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Ayarea/simple

    I'm thinking of just disregarding the 8085 breakpoint and just ignore it and keep haste regardless. Seeing as it's being put on howtopriest as the best gemming option atm.
    Last edited by Ayarea; 2013-03-16 at 11:56 PM.

  14. #94
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Breakpoints are of interest and worth getting but you're never going to reforge out of Haste, you want Haste on every piece, and you want to gem a lot of Haste. Practically the breakpoints won't change any decisions.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    Breakpoints are of interest and worth getting but you're never going to reforge out of Haste, you want Haste on every piece, and you want to gem a lot of Haste. Practically the breakpoints won't change any decisions.
    How high have you simmed? Is there a point at which crit becomes even close to haste (possibly with some 2 piece interaction?) I'm on 12331 haste now and that seems quite high given most are talking about breakpoints down in the 10-11k range.

  16. #96
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferin View Post
    How high have you simmed? Is there a point at which crit becomes even close to haste (possibly with some 2 piece interaction?) I'm on 12331 haste now and that seems quite high given most are talking about breakpoints down in the 10-11k range.
    I hate to reply this way but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    And how did you set-up Simcraft? Did you do a +-1000 secondary stat for weights? Did you Sim all 9 Talent combos in all fight types? How many iterations?

    The simple answer is either to trust the ~24 hours of Simming that brought about this thoerycrafting or step up to the plate and knock out your own serious Simming.

    MoP Simming is a different beast than it was before. You can't just plug yourself in and 5 minutes later expect to have anything that means anything.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    And how did you set-up Simcraft? Did you do a +-1000 secondary stat for weights? Did you Sim all 9 Talent combos in all fight types? How many iterations?

    The simple answer is either to trust the ~24 hours of Simming that brought about this thoerycrafting or step up to the plate and knock out your own serious Simming.

    MoP Simming is a different beast than it was before. You can't just plug yourself in and 5 minutes later expect to have anything that means anything.
    I was running 25k interations. I ran about 50 different sims with different fight lengths, different talents, different stat deltas (tried +/- 500 haste up to about 5k haste delta)
    The consistent things were;
    Patchwork fight
    Low latency
    Elite Player Skill
    1 Target

    I'm no expert at simcraft but I'm certainly not new to it either, haste just wasn't simming that high for me unless I 'gamed' simcraft into making it high. But haste being high in such a specific situation and NO other situation doesn't make it the best stat overall.

    That said, a few gear upgrades and it's back on track to being highest (though still not at the 0.8+ relative value I've seen for others).
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  18. #98
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    I think I did something wrong my stat values are coming out as int-5.19 sp-4.07 spirit-3.57 crit- 2.57 mastery 2.38 haste 1.92

    D:

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    I think I did something wrong my stat values are coming out as int-5.19 sp-4.07 spirit-3.57 crit- 2.57 mastery 2.38 haste 1.92

    D:
    The sim values we have are accumulated over many, many sims that are all types averaged in. Since there isn't a single fight that is patchwerk style.

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  20. #100
    Didn't want to make a new thread, so i will reply here: what was the PP value of 4 set T14 bonus? i know i saw it somewhere, but cant find it anywhere .. i ask this because i want to know if i should drop T14 4set bonus (1x 496 item lvl, other 517) for 2upgrades from ToT (1x 528 item lvl. other 522). Ty in advance

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