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  1. #1

    Shadow help on Council

    Hiya everyone,

    OK, so getting very frustrated with my DPS on Council. I’m not going to make this another “OMG Blizz buff shdw nooaaoaaaw!!!!!!!11!!!!” thread, instead I’d rather choose to work around our issues. Here is my problem… I know I can do relatively well by just multi-dotting all targets and focusing priority when I can, and while I can top the meter this way it’s mostly just padding. I cannot do that and also maximize uptime on priority target. It seems like if you want to pad on this fight, then you can rank on WoL, but if you want to get the kill you have to suck ass.

    Last night I couldn’t manage to get the right talents to maximize DPS. I was mostly using FDCL, ToF, and Halo, but I didn’t really have the burst when trying to focus a target down. To improve that I tried switching to SW:I, DI, and Halo, and while my burst on the focus target went up I went down on the meters substantially. My other thought was to take FDCL & DI, dot everything and then unload all procs on kill target. I didn’t try this last night because I usually like to avoid taking FDCL & DI together as it usually means a DPS loss.

    What should my DPS strategy be on this? I know getting the kill is more important than topping the charts, but I can’t very well tell my other raiders that they need to step up their DPS when I’m in 3rd or 4th place (I’m the RL).

    I can’t link logs right now (at work), but I’ll get them linked when I get home =)

    Thanks for any help you can give. I'm getting uber-frustrated and I'm sure any tips would help.

  2. #2
    i go with SW:I / ToF / Halo, personally it suits me. for the first kill i went with DI instead, and jsut dotting pain on loads of targets to increase the proc chance. it jsut felt hectic to be productive.

    to get ToF proccing, the little Loa add can be sniped very effectively with spamming SW: D, ofc generating another orb.

    the first portion of the fight seems slower on DPS, but once the bosses start dropping then the uptime on ToF goes through the roof

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryManaLow View Post
    i go with SW:I / ToF / Halo, personally it suits me. for the first kill i went with DI instead, and jsut dotting pain on loads of targets to increase the proc chance. it jsut felt hectic to be productive.

    to get ToF proccing, the little Loa add can be sniped very effectively with spamming SW: D, ofc generating another orb.

    the first portion of the fight seems slower on DPS, but once the bosses start dropping then the uptime on ToF goes through the roof
    Given the manner in which my guild wiped on that, I don't think that's wise. We really needed the extra DPS at the start to power through until one of the four dies, so the healers don't go OOM. IMO, SW:I/DI/Halo is a good call (until it's on farm).

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by espoire View Post
    Given the manner in which my guild wiped on that, I don't think that's wise. We really needed the extra DPS at the start to power through until one of the four dies, so the healers don't go OOM. IMO, SW:I/DI/Halo is a good call (until it's on farm).
    Would you multi-dot the other 3 (non-focus) targets, or just focus and throw as much pew pew as possible?

  5. #5
    I'm sorry but how is it padding if none of the bosses heal after you kill one? In my opinion and probably others its only padding if you are dotting something that's irrelevant or just going to heal itself (like Council in ToES or Megaera). Multi dotting is going to make talents like DI and FDCL much better to use if you are choosing those. While your dps on the empowered boss won't be as high (although with the proc talents it should still be decent) it shouldn't affect a raid not getting a kill, especially with the 15m health nerf on them. And it will shorten the kill damaging 3-4 at a time and it's nice to have dots rolling already when they switch.

    I think SWI (unless FDCL has been fixed/buffed) with DI and Halo or Cascade would be good. I think that's what I used but I tried to keep dots rolling on at least 3 bosses. If you're having a hard time keeping dots up on multiple targets while keeping up good single target dps you could try Mindbender for a little burst on each empowered boss.
    Last edited by Kalliope; 2013-03-14 at 08:24 PM.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    • Mindbender, 'cause SW:I requires you to stand still for 7s after every DP, which is not likely to be possible on most of the fights;
    • ToF (obviously?), proc it of Loa Spirits;
    • Cascade, cause Mar'li is tanked far from the other bosses (use it on her for max dmg).
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  7. #7
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    • Mindbender, 'cause SW:I requires you to stand still for 7s after every DP, which is not likely to be possible on most of the fights;
    • ToF (obviously?), proc it of Loa Spirits;
    • Cascade, cause Mar'li is tanked far from the other bosses (use it on her for max dmg).
    This, but I would add that in council specifically I manage to get a fair bit of damage out with Insanity - so I'm tempted to stick with it - it's good single target damage on a fight that requires you to constantly be almost-tunnelling something (Loa or empowereds or Sul). It also scales better with ToF than Mindbender (which doesn't benefit from ToF). If you are having a lot of trouble moving out of things though, Mindbender would definitely be the right call for all the same reasons (and I suspect that is more a risk on 25m to 10m, since more people may equal more sandtraps).
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  8. #8
    I had good results with Insanity DI and Cascade.
    Keeping full uptime on swp across all targets, filling in VT when you get the chance. Dumping all DI procs into the current active target (watch your hp on Kazra'jin as several DI procs back to back while he's active/stunned can very well kill you, especially if you follow them up with an insanity.) In cases where my health dropped low I would turn and focus Frost King instead (we found finishing him off early made things much easier). I kept Glyph of Mind Spike and was able to spam MS/MB on the Lao's, or if I was lucky have a DI proc available and end it even sooner. With 4 SWP's running it was a very nice supply of them.

    Cascade on the bosses/sands provided easy filler damage, and honestly I didn't have much issue with placement. The charge is easily avoidable in one gcd by sidestepping. If your healers are a bit slow on dispells, dispersion or talented fade can get you out of sand traps pretty quick if you're targeted with ensnare (or are bad at standing in fire and manage to hit 20 stacks on your own ).

    Overall ended up with a solid rank this week post SWP nerf. (157k 10N) As much as I am sad to see it happen, I can agree with the reasoning behind it.
    Last edited by Nestar; 2013-03-14 at 10:45 PM.

  9. #9
    High Overlord DarkSavior's Avatar
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    I run Insanity DI Cascade. Keep SWP on each boss and throw everything else at the empowered.
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  10. #10
    Insanity/TOF/Halo

    TOF had a 49% uptime.

    It's a pretty awesome fight for us.

    I cant see Cascade being any good TBH compared to Halo, Halo was 11.4% of damage, sands anyone?
    Last edited by DeiVias; 2013-03-15 at 12:17 AM.

  11. #11
    Not padding. It's actually what you are supposed to do. Makes the fight way easier if you have a lot of multi dotters

  12. #12
    Yup, this is not Protectors of the Endless (and even there multi helped single). Any damage done stays that way - as long as your raid doesn't suck. Now, with the 15% HP nerf it's laughable even.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalliope View Post
    I'm sorry but how is it padding if none of the bosses heal after you kill one? In my opinion and probably others its only padding if you are dotting something that's irrelevant or just going to heal itself (like Council in ToES or Megaera). Multi dotting is going to make talents like DI and FDCL much better to use if you are choosing those. While your dps on the empowered boss won't be as high (although with the proc talents it should still be decent) it shouldn't affect a raid not getting a kill, especially with the 15m health nerf on them.
    This is exactly my issue... we didn't get the kill. Now, I am working (see: losing my mind) with my dps'ers, but we couldn't get the empowerment broken before they were ticking for way, way too much. Every attempt, our highest damage taken was from Dark energy. I was 2 seconds away from going friggin "50 DKP minus!!!" on some of my DPS, when I noticed that I myself had not been focusing the priority because of so much time multi-dotting. I can't press them to switch quick, etc etc when I'm not doing that. This is exactly the reason for the post in the first place. I'm an experienced s.priest, I know that this fight is basically made for us and I know they don't reheal making multi-dotting boss. My problem is that the multi-dotting does nothing to solve the reason we're wiping, and that is low DPS on the kill target.

  14. #14
    I'm not sure if this helps you, but if everyone plays at their best, it might just be a gear issue. We killed Council with an average ilvl of 502-503. Unless you have some addon, you can find yours out on http://www.wowprogress.com.

  15. #15
    The Patient Tenaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordsphinx View Post
    This is exactly my issue... we didn't get the kill. Now, I am working (see: losing my mind) with my dps'ers, but we couldn't get the empowerment broken before they were ticking for way, way too much. Every attempt, our highest damage taken was from Dark energy. I was 2 seconds away from going friggin "50 DKP minus!!!" on some of my DPS, when I noticed that I myself had not been focusing the priority because of so much time multi-dotting. I can't press them to switch quick, etc etc when I'm not doing that. This is exactly the reason for the post in the first place. I'm an experienced s.priest, I know that this fight is basically made for us and I know they don't reheal making multi-dotting boss. My problem is that the multi-dotting does nothing to solve the reason we're wiping, and that is low DPS on the kill target.
    If that's your problem, are you logging your raids?
    You could have a look at which dps'ers are actually dpsing the correct target, and which ones are just dps whoring.
    In some ways it doesn't seem fair to say a SP wouldn't be allowed to multidot with DI and Insanity working so well together, but if the problem you face is not getting one single target down quick enough and you want to set a good example you might as well check logs to see who of your other dps'ers are pulling their weight.

    I dont really see how your issue is related to being a SP, sounds to me it's more related to the people in your raid

  16. #16
    Absolutely true Tenaru. I am working with them and reviewing logs, but I just want to do whatever is needed to help kill the boss, even if that means lower overall DPS.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-15 at 10:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Moshic View Post
    I'm not sure if this helps you, but if everyone plays at their best, it might just be a gear issue. We killed Council with an average ilvl of 502-503. Unless you have some addon, you can find yours out on http://www.wowprogress.com.
    This could be an issue too, but I usually err on the side that you should be able to make up for gear with proper execution. This is especially true after they just nerfed the bejesus out of it and we still struggle. Our average ilvl is between 493 and 497.

  17. #17
    Grunt
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    What's so hard about watching dot timers and hitting tab? Bloodlust on Sandy at the beginning

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by blacktongues View Post
    What's so hard about watching dot timers and hitting tab? Bloodlust on Sandy at the beginning
    Dotting all 4 takes aprox 10 seconds, and by that point the first of the dots are 8 seconds from falling off. Then add in Loa spirit and there is little time for hard burn on empowered.

    The other option may be to just SW:P them all, which would save substantial time...

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by lordsphinx View Post
    Dotting all 4 takes aprox 10 seconds, and by that point the first of the dots are 8 seconds from falling off. Then add in Loa spirit and there is little time for hard burn on empowered.

    The other option may be to just SW:P them all, which would save substantial time...
    You could always soul swap? oh wait...

  20. #20
    Insanity and DI with best with cascade since the bosses always seem to be separated and just keep SWP up on everything and vt on your focused target

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