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  1. #21
    * The Random Expert Dungeon daily now offers Frozen Eclipse Stone.
    Will people stop bitching now? Probably not, but one can dream.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Will people stop bitching now? Probably not, but one can dream.
    Chance would be a fine thing

    Cue Forum threads of been "forced" to run Experts now to keep up with "hardcore" Raiders and "it's another Grind!"

  3. #23
    Sweet I should have one piece of gear by late September at a rate of 7 per week. Literally zero incentive to do experts with such a piss poor reward.

    Do they have a poster at work that says "How can you add more grind to Rift? Do your part?". wtf is Trion thinking?
    Last edited by Puremallace; 2013-03-20 at 03:55 PM.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Sweet I should have one piece of gear by late September at a rate of 7 per week. Literally zero incentive to do experts with such a piss poor reward.

    Do they have a poster at work that says "How can you add more grind to Rift? Do your part?". wtf is Trion thinking?
    and this really goes back to the argument we have had before, if you are not raiding why do you need the gear so badly? If you are raiding, then you'll get the gear. Which leads us to your unusual thoughts that it takes playing 50 hours a week to raid when in reality a lot of raiders probably play less than you.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    and this really goes back to the argument we have had before, if you are not raiding why do you need the gear so badly? If you are raiding, then you'll get the gear. Which leads us to your unusual thoughts that it takes playing 50 hours a week to raid when in reality a lot of raiders probably play less than you.
    The issue with dick for rewards in experts there is zero reason for me to tank them driving up queue and thus driving people to unsub. Trion clearly has not learned this lesson hard enough, so I will continue to pvp when I log on and pretend like the pve elitist side of the game does not exist.

    Trion needs to put a timer on the loot from Rift raids of 30 seconds plain and simple. This auction raid bullshit needs to stop. The requirement for achievements to enter even a pug needs to end also. This game used to be played for fun and now the elitist have completely taken over.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Trion needs to put a timer on the loot from Rift raids of 30 seconds plain and simple. This auction raid bullshit needs to stop. The requirement for achievements to enter even a pug needs to end also. This game used to be played for fun and now the elitist have completely taken over.
    sry this is no argument for me if your against it than make your own raid and stop complaining

    and i like the raidmarks for experts i dont need any expert marks anymore but im not good enough to farm raidmarks from raids and even if its just 1 mark it sums up

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    The issue with dick for rewards in experts there is zero reason for me to tank them driving up queue and thus driving people to unsub. Trion clearly has not learned this lesson hard enough, so I will continue to pvp when I log on and pretend like the pve elitist side of the game does not exist.

    Trion needs to put a timer on the loot from Rift raids of 30 seconds plain and simple. This auction raid bullshit needs to stop. The requirement for achievements to enter even a pug needs to end also. This game used to be played for fun and now the elitist have completely taken over.
    Well, there is a reason to tank, it's called insta-que and not having to wait. When I need to or want to run experts for whatever reason, if not in a guild group I always que as tank. There is no lesson for Trion to learn here, if you can tank and want fast ques, you que as tank. It is not that hard to get a gear set capable of tanking Experts. I gathered mine completely incidentally, just rolling on tank drops noone wanted. Next thing I knew, I had a full tank set. I also do not see this elitism you speak of. Not once in the 4 guilds I have been in since SL.

    Why would they need to stop the auctions? If you want the loot or want to hand it out for free, go get your own planarite and IS. When I earn mine, and I can make a few plat off it, I will. If people were not willing to pay, this would never happen. Trion cannot change the fact that people are willing to pay rather than spend time farming planarite. That's a player choice and not much Trion can do about it.

    As for requiring achievements for runs, I've explained to you on 2 different occasions how to circumvent this, both times ignored.

    Again, I do not see elitists completely taking over the game. I see far more casuals and in the guilds I was lots of Hardcore players go casual.

    Wanting an achieve to join a raid is not elitism, it is simply making sure you do not have to explain all the boss fights cause your guild run is a couple people short and you wanna farm that content tonight not spend an hour going over everything. If you simply send these people a tell and talk to them, a lot of times they will work with you, especially if you let them know you have done all the research on the fights and know what to expect.

    If you want to run in a raid with no achievement requirements, I got news for you. It's really really easy to start your own group. You could even say you want only people who do not have the achievement if you wanted. You wouldn't get far though. Better yet, make a small 9 hour a week commitment and join a raiding guild.

    Off-topic: Just because I do not want to start a thread about it as that is stupid, but I want to let the people here that I have come to know and love know, I cancelled my sub today. My sub runs out tomorrow. I may still poke around here on the forums from time to time, but I am done with Rift for the time being. Burnt out I guess, just can't seem to find a good fit with a guild cause when I do, they end up having attendance problems. My current guild just decided to take a break from raiding until the next tier comes out, then they are gonna be casually raiding. I just don't have the desire to go through looking for another guild again, there just don't seem to be enough that raid at the times I am available to raid and I'm sick of getting used to a group of people then just not raiding for 2-3 weeks. So, Farewell Telara. Perhaps I will be back in a couple months, perhaps I'll see you guys in another game, who knows.
    Last edited by Lathais; 2013-03-20 at 05:32 PM.
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  8. #28
    Old God Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    So, Farewell Telara. Perhaps I will be back in a couple months, perhaps I'll see you guys in another game, who knows.
    While it might not be your style aesthetically, I would check out Wildstar if you are serious about wanting to raid. It looks like they are aiming for the highest of the high on top of having raids that can actually change/be dynamic to keep the same things interesting over time.

    Plus it's somehwat action combat on top of many other things. Just throwing it out there if you still have the MMO itch, it's supposed to launch near the end of the year.
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  9. #29
    Hm. Wish they would have said what the tanking weapon changes were. I still need mine. >.>

  10. #30
    Raiding has never and probably will never been the main focus of a lot of Rift players. That is more of a WoW thing. Most Rift people I know play it for the open world content. My issue with this raid achieve thing is simple. It HEAVILY encourages plat buying and bot'n. The concept is simple. If I have the most plat I get great gear.

    No lifers and hardcore grinders are rewarded over people who make up a majority of the player base. I saw it in WoW and it is clearly repeating in Rift. Guild refused to pick up people who had the gear, but were too lazy to explain often times very simple fights. It is really is elitism to expect this.

    Storm legion elitism has taken it another level. Now guilds are requiring the best enchants and lessers and perfect builds. There is zero room for errors or you are kicked. The raids used to be fun, but are not elitist paradises.

    My point about the dungeon rewards being minimum is this. I have the full expert gear. I have zero reason to queue since January because there is simply no point. The drop rates are dog shit. All you see if blues. It feels honestly like Aion again. People wanted this hardcore form of Rift with grinds and now they got it. I never once advocated for this. It is a fundamental misunderstanding of why people unsubbed from Rift and it was because of the roller coaster of nerfs and buffs.

    I mean fuck we are talking about tier 1 raid stones that were released in November. It is going on April. Asking for more then one per nightmare pug is not that much.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Storm legion elitism has taken it another level. Now guilds are requiring the best enchants and lessers and perfect builds. There is zero room for errors or you are kicked. The raids used to be fun, but are not elitist paradises.
    You are sorely mistaken on this point alone, and pretty much the entire post really. Personally, I have a crap cape from an Expert and not a single Torvan Lesser nor any DRR Lessers nor any CQ Power and only the Karthan Ridge Trinket. I have been in, accepted into and raided with and beat most of the other rogues in 4 different guilds with this. These things are not required. If you are looking at guilds where they are one of two things is happening to you.

    1) You are looking at the wrong type of guild for you
    2) You suck, they know it, they make something up as a reason they don't want you cause they are too polite to tell you you suck.

    More than likely the first as I doubt you are known well enough in the raiding community seeing as you do not even attempt to raid.

    Also, we do not know if this is the final implementation of the stones. Perhaps they will increase it, or perhaps next week or with the release of the next Tier they will reduce the cost. You don't know and you're complaining about it, and you don't even need it.
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  12. #32
    Raiding is suppose to be exclusionary.

    The "WoW thing" is raiding for the everyman.

    Traditional true raiding is for the elite.

  13. #33
    Old God Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    and you don't even need it.
    Telling someone they don't 'need' gear for what they are doing is just an opinion and not some sort of factual truth. Character progression is character progression however you look at it. Whether it means they get to do dailies faster or perform better in dungeons or whatever activity they choose you can't say they don't 'need' raid quality gear because they don't raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Raiding is suppose to be exclusionary.

    The "WoW thing" is raiding for the everyman.

    Traditional true raiding is for the elite.
    They are the ones who created mainstream raiding so I'll take their updated definition to be an expression of what modern raiding is. That's like saying that video games should all be like pac man or galaga and what we're doing now isn't true gaming. The examples don't really matter, since everyone will toss out fruit along with straw men these days, but they aren't the only ones to recognize that gear progression and tiered difficulties for a larger percentage of the population are what define current raiding.

    Now exclusive raid content might be getting back to classic raiding, but it's certainly not what it is now...whether anyone likes it or not.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    While it might not be your style aesthetically, I would check out Wildstar if you are serious about wanting to raid. It looks like they are aiming for the highest of the high on top of having raids that can actually change/be dynamic to keep the same things interesting over time.

    Plus it's somehwat action combat on top of many other things. Just throwing it out there if you still have the MMO itch, it's supposed to launch near the end of the year.
    That game is actually on my radar already. I signed up for the beta a little while back but have not gotten yet. I do still have the MMO itch, I do want to raid and I do want to do so in a progression based MMO. Currently I am considering either going back to SWtoR and dusting off my Tankasin or possibly checking out MoP just because I know I have a "family" there that would be super duper excited if I came back. Leaning towards SWtoR right now as that is the cheaper option, I could check out F2P for a week or so while I decide and then if I sub, it's just replacing my Rift Sub. WoW I would have to purchase MoP and I just don't think I'll really enjoy WoW anymore. Also thought of checking out World of Tanks or just taking some time to replay or play for the first time some single player games. Always meant to play through Fallout 3 and KOTOR as an evil guy, I also only ever got about halfway through KOTOR2 and FFXII. I'll keep busy somehow I am sure.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 01:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Telling someone they don't 'need' gear for what they are doing is just an opinion and not some sort of factual truth. Character progression is character progression however you look at it. Whether it means they get to do dailies faster or perform better in dungeons or whatever activity they choose you can't say they don't 'need' raid quality gear because they don't raid.


    They are the ones who created mainstream raiding so I'll take their updated definition to be an expression of what modern raiding is. That's like saying that video games should all be like pac man or galaga and what we're doing now isn't true gaming. The examples don't really matter, since everyone will toss out fruit along with straw men these days, but they aren't the only ones to recognize that gear progression and tiered difficulties for a larger percentage of the population are what define current raiding.

    Now exclusive raid content might be getting back to classic raiding, but it's certainly not what it is now...whether anyone likes it or not.
    No, it is true. You do not need it. You do not even need it to raid the current tier. You need it to raid the next tier though. Anything else is a want and not a need.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    They are the ones who created mainstream raiding so I'll take their updated definition to be an expression of what modern raiding is.
    No argument against this point. WOW is the modern style of MMO.

    I deliberately said "traditional true raiding". That was the type of raiding I was speaking about specifically.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    So, Farewell Telara. Perhaps I will be back in a couple months, perhaps I'll see you guys in another game, who knows.
    Saw your LFG thread, guess you changed your mind after all.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Raiding is suppose to be exclusionary.

    The "WoW thing" is raiding for the everyman.

    Traditional true raiding is for the elite.
    Trion has a habit of one upping Blizzard when they implement something. Main issue with Rift raiding right now is the main issue WotLK raiding had is that not everyone raids a x time on x days. Sorry I am not 18 years old anymore going to school from 7-3 and having every night off to dick around.

    That is why people are so hard up for Free to play these days because a sub fee is a bill that we have to pay and not our parents anymore. If you want to look at WoW and pretend they do not have 8 years of successes and fails and want to repeat the same mistakes, then by all means go for it.

    Rift will turn into the same cycle of large raiding on reset day when all the geared people with achievements logon and the rest of the week the game is a barren wasteland with the poor saps left behind not having any help.

    My other main issue is simple. If you choose to make the SL tier 1 gear cost 3 times as much as the tier 2 Hammknell gear but offer 1/3 the rewards for running experts then do not be shocked noone queue's for experts.

    Hammerknell was successful because the average guy could get the gear and see the content via LFG marks. Infernal Dawn was a fucking failure because the gear was more then doubled in price for no reason and everyone skipped it. They clearly fired the wrong devs over there and kept the idiots who's mentality is killing the current genre of MMO's by assuming GRIND = FUN
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  18. #38
    Old God Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    *snip*
    Quite literally don't go to the darkside. You will not enjoy it...though I guess free is hard to argue with
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    No, it is true. You do not need it. You do not even need it to raid the current tier. You need it to raid the next tier though. Anything else is a want and not a need.
    I mean technically the best players don't 'need' any gear and they can arguably defeat the content. Most progression guilds use mostly old gear to defeat new stuff. It's just running into problems when other players are trying to dictate the needs or wants of others.

    Even 'need' is an opinionated definition in this situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    No argument against this point. WOW is the modern style of MMO.

    I deliberately said "traditional true raiding". That was the type of raiding I was speaking about specifically.
    Yeah I wasn't trying to disagree with your point, just expressing that I think those days are over and we can't really let the past define anything of raiding anymore. Kinda like explaining telephones as a simple rotary instead of smartphones we currently have. Even the term traditional tends to be brought ahead in the times as the definition of a concept evolves.

    Same reason we create new traditions for holidays and whatnot.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    If you want to look at WoW and pretend they do not have 8 years of successes and fails and want to repeat the same mistakes, then by all means go for it.
    Not sure where you are getting this from my posts. It's an imaginary argument.

    If there is a mistake Trion have made philosophically it is in trying to appeal to the same mass market that World of Warcraft owns in total.

    Rift will turn into the same cycle of large raiding on reset day when all the geared people with achievements logon and the rest of the week the game is a barren wasteland with the poor saps left behind not having any help.
    Which is exactly as it is now in Rift for many raid interested players.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Not sure where you are getting this from my posts. It's an imaginary argument.

    If there is a mistake Trion have made philosophically it is in trying to appeal to the same mass market that World of Warcraft owns in total.
    Little two late now to go a different direction. If these strong holds things do not turn out to be a gimick and give casuals something to do, then let them change direction. The problem is they have a minor portion of the playerbase driving the philosophy of raid and dungeon design.

    The idea to stagger one part of the player base two tiers behind the other is insane. So it will be one tier 1 raid mark with tier 2, then 2 tier 1 raid marks with tier 3 content. The cost should adjust for the inflation cost of the gear.
    Last edited by Puremallace; 2013-03-20 at 07:57 PM.
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