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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    It's the goal of a few because it happens naturally, just like leveling. When you're farming for gear, you get XP. It just happens. It's not like people aren't playing the game, it's that I think most people aren't focusing 100% on Paragon levels because they come when they come while you're doing what you're already doing.
    People aren't playing the game though and the lack of lvl 100 paragons is proof. If the game was appealing to that type of player they'd have more people doing it. Normally when Blizzard sets up something like this theirs a pretty big crowd or players after it. It ain't happening in D3.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 10:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Faesroll View Post
    I play for 1-2 hours a day yet I'm only PL 78, reaching 100 is in no way a goal for me cause I'm afraid I'll be bored after it so I'm just doing stuff I enjoy, sometimes I farm essences in Act 2 for days and the other day I do nothing but act 3 runs because I feel like farming some legendary's. If I level up while doing so, great, but It's not my goal by any means to reach 100 asap.

    Maybe you just don't fully grasp the absurd amount of time and dedication it takes to reach PL 100, even after what, 6 months? most casual players who play as much as I do will be around lvl 50-80 depending on how they spend their time in-game or even have multiple low level paragon characters.
    I grasp it and in the past people were fully committed to do exactly that in Blizzard games. They aren't committing to do it in Diablo 3. Because it's a bad game that doesn't appeal to players and people are leaving/have left.

  2. #22
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    People aren't playing the game though and the lack of lvl 100 paragons is proof. If the game was appealing to that type of player they'd have more people doing it. Normally when Blizzard sets up something like this theirs a pretty big crowd or players after it. It ain't happening in D3.
    As someone who only occasionally plays, I can say this is completely accurate. It doesn't have enough weight to keep me around for any discernible amount of time and even though I keep checking back, it's not fun enough to get me hooked.

    I still play TL2 for longer sessions when I'm in my rotation for that game. Not saying one is better than the other, but it clearly isn't interesting enough for me to play like I would say...WoW...which I played for 7+ years practically nonstop.
    BAD WOLF

  3. #23
    Stood in the Fire Zenko's Avatar
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    Pretty much every other ARPG ever made has more depth, immersion, and a much greater sense of reward than D3.

    As much as I loath the current game I still try to get into it. My barb just hit 100k dps with the crafting gear but that isnt saying much. I don't think i'll ever lose complete hope but at the same time it's gonna take another year at this rate for something good.

    Especially when you have people white-knighting the game as if they made personal profits from the major sales this game has made. Seriously, we all know the game is a financial success. Quit throwing gasoline into the fire. A financial success doesn't mean anything unless you are directly profiting from it. The game shits on any sane persons sense of self-worth, and expects you to play it as if its an MMO in order to feel any sense of reward for your efforts.

    Why spend time on D3 when you know you wont feel rewarded for your time unless you are extremely lucky? A game is meant to reward people for their time. This game doesn't.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    It's a goal of a few because only a few left play this game. If it were a decent game you'd see more players willing to invest the time and effort to get to lvl 100. Or whatever. You encounter so much blind denial when talking to fans of Blizzard games. It's like a wall.
    I am tired of explaining, and some ppl here explained it to you.
    It is a gola of a few because it is not needed for anything. Consider paragon 100 as wow hardcore raid...only 3% of all are completing it. Many are doing it, but there is no pressure and why they would even need a pressure for that?
    Check the real number of heroes with paragon 1-100. Whole my friendlist is full of paragon 1-80, noone above that. 80 paragon is 50% of the time needed to get 100 or smth like that. Ppl are playing the game totally casually 1-2hours/day or even 2 hours/week and they are happy. What would you do to keep ppl playing more while there is no need to copy the way we played D2? The only players that need the copy of D2 are those without life and those who are the loudest. Yes, forums are mainly made by addicted and loud customers, of whom +80% post before thinking. I would love to have the data about intelligence, age and behaviour of all "d3 sucks, its not d2, fail!" posters.

    There are games "meant" to be played +4h/day for years (true mmorgps) and there are games which are casual friendly, lanch it and relax. D3 is that kind of a game. Stop looking at it as an "omg i must do that i must farm farm farm i must play even 10h/day like hardcores because it feels mandatory!". No. Just no. Find another prodcut to waste your life on.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughty8 View Post
    This game doesn't need any save or help or anything.
    - it has been sold for +12mil of copies, it has been played,
    - the RMAH gave them alot of money (probably),
    - patches are making community to come back for a while and play,
    - about 12k heroes have 100 paragon level, that's alot. Think thank only a part of playerbase has done it.

    They are calmly making and expansion, witch will 99% sure sell like 8mil copies, ppl will come back, RMAH again, maybe some new systems will make ppl stay longer, more money for blizz, that's all.

    There is no pressure. If you want D2, play D2 Or play PoE and get bored.

    You know what the group of forumers are saying "this game needs repair, needs save"? Because you just want a product to spend your life with. You want a product for years of +4h/day gameplay or even more. Thats all. D3 played casually, from time to time, for fun, after a hard work day, will last for at least a year or two. The only problem is lack of competition and current market is based on it, ppl want to compete with each other, whatever it is moba/pvp or pve showoff/race. D3 has no common competition.

    Sometimes I think that many ppl here are just addicted.

    Just give it up Slaughty, right now Blizzard could put in naked women and men in this game and the haters gonna hate.

    Btw: the TLDR version of the blue post in the forums is telling you: quote "we already made D3 better with the latest patches and so we will continue to do (as with every Blizzard game). In fact Diablo 3 is a great game." unquote

    No game will satisfy the Blizz haters ever, they rather sit in forums holding a cross in their hands and bully fans of the game around in dog hound grouping modes.

    The ONLY thing so comical about it is that people invest THOUSANDS of hours in a game that is "bad"....


    Laughs.....

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 08:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Meh. It's a lot fluff added onto things we already know. Itemization is terrible, class balance and build diversity is terrible. Just a really long post with a little horn-tooting.
    Well dear moderator ... Explain itemization, explain class balance, explain build diversity.

    I'll start with the last one: when I am looking at a website that compares DH builds for example I see DOZENS UPON DOZENS of different builds. Explain.

    Balance? For what purpose ? How in the world is that important in a pure PVE game that does not rely on class interaction like WoW?

    Stats itemisation? You can discuss this until your eyes bleed: it is NONSENSE talking about this in a loot based RND game, because ... IF you could give one argument about stats is ... That everyone will give you a different opinion, all 13 million.

  6. #26
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Well dear moderator ... Explain itemization, explain class balance, explain build diversity.

    I'll start with the last one: when I am looking at a website that compares DH builds for example I see DOZENS UPON DOZENS of different builds. Explain.

    Balance? For what purpose ? How in the world is that important in a pure PVE game that does not rely on class interaction like WoW?

    Stats itemisation? You can discuss this until your eyes bleed: it is NONSENSE talking about this in a loot based RND game, because ... IF you could give one argument about stats is ... That everyone will give you a different opinion, all 13 million.
    I don't have to explain anything. The linked post in battle.net sums it up pretty well. It's a good read, and I didn't mean to insinuate it's not by my comment. Just that he's only saying what we already know, just a more elaborate version of it.

    General Off-topic/Fun Stuff/Diablo 3/Sports & Fitness mod(rules)------KUPO --------Sig by Elyssia------- Say hello to a world of marigolds

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    I don't have to explain anything. The linked post in battle.net sums it up pretty well. It's a good read, and I didn't mean to insinuate it's not by my comment. Just that he's only saying what we already know, just a more elaborate version of it.
    Of course that's the easy way out: moan about things you can't explain and vaguely allude to a blue post telling hardly anything. Typical for a moderator who simply actively deleted positive threads in the past.

    If this attitude would show up in the GW2 forums, you would already have been replaced as a mod a long long time ago.

    Seriously. But no problem, I asked you 3 specific questions above, and you said you couldn't explain your theories. Quite fun to read actually.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-03-02 at 08:12 AM.

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire Zenko's Avatar
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    Honestly the people who bash the D3 bashers seem way more belligerent than anybody =p

    Also, no one wants another D2. They want a D3 that innovated. We didn't get that, hence the frustrations.

    The reason you have thousands of people complaining about the game but still playing is because of loyalty and long-term investment. It has nothing to do with addictions. We have a license to play the game forever, so why not get some paragon lvls here and there while waiting for the game to improve.
    Last edited by Zenko; 2013-03-02 at 08:27 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenko View Post

    Why spend time on D3 when you know you wont feel rewarded for your time unless you are extremely lucky? A game is meant to reward people for their time. This game doesn't.
    couldn't have said it better myself.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenko View Post
    Honestly the people who bash the D3 bashers seem way more belligerent than anybody =p

    Also, no one wants another D2. They want a D3 that innovated. We didn't get that, hence the frustrations.

    The reason you have thousands of people complaining about the game but still playing is because of loyalty and long-term investment. It has nothing to do with addictions. We have a license to play the game forever, so why not get some paragon lvls here and there while waiting for the game to improve.
    So why complain if "why not get some paragon lvls" ? This contradicts each other. It is all about addiction that those who are complaining are still playing. The cn play any other game, they can do whatever they want in real life, but they don't.

    Why? Psychology is here. Those the most complaining are those the most playing of which many are just addicted. They complain, but they play, because they don't wanna be "worse" than those who play rarerly and don't complain. It is simple mechanism. Generaly those who play the most are those who don't have anything to do irl, or failed irl, or want to escape instead of fight for their live.

    My whole friendlist is filled with casual players, they don't complain at all about D3, they just login when time allows and play. All of them have a each class at 1-60lvl with one or two heroes at paragon lvl 1-80. They are happy with the product, they play other games too. This is how a huge part of the playerbase looks like. Compare 12mil sold copies, of which probably half is not playing because they don't have to (games are not meant to live in, are meant to be fun, nobody is forcing you to stick to a product for months).

    Thousands forumers complain while x-times more at still playing it from time to time. Of course there will be smth to complain on, but or you enjoy it and play, or you write a feedback and that's it, or you play another game and nobody cares Of cours that devs wan't as much ppl to play D3 as possible, but their own pressure on this manner is much lower than in case of WoW.

    Oh well, if you can't see that and understand it, eh, I have nothing else to say. There is one of the rules: don't waste time on explainig things (mainly to ppl who are not your friends/partners/customers). I am done, like Ben said, there is no point I give it up and login to d3 and play it a little and after that, Real Life, it's saturday after all

    And abour "the game must be rewarding" - it is veeery subjective. Yes, many forum players are saying "it's not rewarding" while for those who the game is rewarding, they don't feel any need to write on the forum, they just play.

    Forums of the product are almost always filled with complaints. No matter what the product it is. You can invent an cancer-medicine and make an forum on it and 90% of the posts will be complaints.
    Last edited by Slaughty8; 2013-03-02 at 09:20 AM.

  11. #31
    There is no way I'm buying D3 expansions unless they drastically improve the social tools. I'm an extrovert. I like talking, community, and all that. D3 is built for introverts only. I can't stand it. There was actually a blue post response to Gosu's post, and of course when the blue gets to the social tools, he starts out by bashing the idea, saying something to the effect of "having friends in-game ruined his farming efficiency therefore its bad."

    I give up on this game ever fixing its problems.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenko View Post
    Why spend time on D3 when you know you wont feel rewarded for your time unless you are extremely lucky? A game is meant to reward people for their time. This game doesn't.
    Because most people aren't pathological gamers. You can play because the skills are fun and well done, environments look great and mindlessly blowing up enemies in variate ways relaxes you. Luckly, not everyone expects a game to become a purpose in life.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Clearly Blizzard doesn't agree with you in a public capacity, so there's no need to white knight for them any longer. The verdict is in and they agree their game blows.
    Admitting there are things they can improve upon is not even close to the shit you imply. Hell, those are minor details for most companies and the kind of issue it doesn't even make it on a todo list to look upon.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by abijax View Post
    Because most people aren't pathological gamers. You can play because the skills are fun and well done, environments look great and mindlessly blowing up enemies in variate ways relaxes you. Luckly, not everyone expects a game to become a purpose in life.
    !!! exactly this! Most of the players find this kind of fun in D3. They don't need items as much to feel rewarded, of course they will smile if smth drops, but they care more about fun out of what Abijax wrote, so they feel relaxed by just playing the game, because it's smooth, art is great, mindllessly blowing up enemies, many cool skills etc. This is it what most of the playerbase enjoys.
    Do you know who needs items to feel rewarded? Those whos life is not rewarding them. Those who can't reward themselves irl. My whole friendlist is full of couples, married ppl etc. They don't play for items, yes, they enjoy the look, but they don't need to find them to feel rewarded, they have real life to feel rewarded. Other things matter.
    Last edited by Slaughty8; 2013-03-02 at 02:04 PM.

  14. #34
    I just want a better and more fun grinding game. That is all.

    Currently I caved inn flipping on the AH, and already now I've made more gold than I've ever had playing the game for now around 450 hour's 100% activate, 510 hours or so if you count AFK. Its sad that it works like this.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by abijax View Post
    Because most people aren't pathological gamers. You can play because the skills are fun and well done, environments look great and mindlessly blowing up enemies in variate ways relaxes you. Luckly, not everyone expects a game to become a purpose in life.
    then in that respect diablo fails even harder. Non "pathological" gamers will get bored of it very quickly as without the loot game Diablo basically just becomes click click click click 1 click click click 2 and requires virtually no thought and contains virtually no variety. Hell it doesn't even have PVP at this point. The environments are unappealing, the skills seriously unbalanced and in many cases underwhelming, the story is bland and really attrocious. It fails for casual "non pathological" gamers even more than the hard core gamers. It's an old game based on an old stale model that desperately needed updating but didn't get enough of innovation imo.

    In the end it was an attempt to make a game that appeals to two groups but really appeals to no one or next to no one in my opinion. It's a mess.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-03 at 02:46 AM.

  16. #36
    Stood in the Fire Zenko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    There is no way I'm buying D3 expansions unless they drastically improve the social tools. I'm an extrovert. I like talking, community, and all that. D3 is built for introverts only. I can't stand it. There was actually a blue post response to Gosu's post, and of course when the blue gets to the social tools, he starts out by bashing the idea, saying something to the effect of "having friends in-game ruined his farming efficiency therefore its bad."

    I give up on this game ever fixing its problems.
    What kind of tools are you thinking of? This game is a fun beat-em-up when you're playing with friends. I dont even think or care about loot in these situations. Are you thinking more towards the greater community or stuff to do with friends?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughty8 View Post
    !!! exactly this! Most of the players find this kind of fun in D3. They don't need items as much to feel rewarded, of course they will smile if smth drops, but they care more about fun out of what Abijax wrote, so they feel relaxed by just playing the game, because it's smooth, art is great, mindllessly blowing up enemies, many cool skills etc. This is it what most of the playerbase enjoys.
    Do you know who needs items to feel rewarded? Those whos life is not rewarding them. Those who can't reward themselves irl. My whole friendlist is full of couples, married ppl etc. They don't play for items, yes, they enjoy the look, but they don't need to find them to feel rewarded, they have real life to feel rewarded. Other things matter.
    First off, I think I rustled your jimmies earlier but I did read what you had to say with your longer post up above. I agree with you when I'm playing with 2-3 RL friends. It feels more like an awesome Double Dragon beat-em-up game. Its fun in that respect for about an hour or two. I wish I could do that more often but its very rarely when this happens for me.

    When I try to play solo or with randoms the game has a completely different feeling.

    I'd rather sit here and debate it and maybe come up with awesome ideas to improve the game. Arguing about semantics and opinions gets us no where =)

    Theres no sense in posting how unhappy/happy you are if you don't care about the game. I think its safe to say that people wouldn't complain if they didn't care.
    Last edited by Zenko; 2013-03-03 at 09:12 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenko View Post
    What kind of tools are you thinking of? This game is a fun beat-em-up when you're playing with friends. I dont even think or care about loot in these situations. Are you thinking more towards the greater community or stuff to do with friends?



    First off, I think I rustled your jimmies earlier but I did read what you had to say with your longer post up above. I agree with you when I'm playing with 2-3 RL friends. It feels more like an awesome Double Dragon beat-em-up game. Its fun in that respect for about an hour or two. I wish I could do that more often but its very rarely when this happens for me.

    When I try to play solo or with randoms the game has a completely different feeling.

    I'd rather sit here and debate it and maybe come up with awesome ideas to improve the game. Arguing about semantics and opinions gets us no where =)

    Theres no sense in posting how unhappy/happy you are if you don't care about the game. I think its safe to say that people wouldn't complain if they didn't care.
    And again we are going back to: most hardcore and pathologicial and addicted players post on the forum complaining about the game, while those who stand as +80% of playerbase, just play it from time to time. I wish we could have any data about "played at least 1h/week" players number vs hardcore playerbase. If I am happy and I am playing, it means that I care about the game and I am happy with it. Is is soo hard to understand?

    Check the number of active WoW posters who complain vs even an 1/4th of the subscriptions number.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    then in that respect diablo fails even harder. Non "pathological" gamers will get bored of it very quickly as without the loot game Diablo basically just becomes click click click click 1 click click click 2 and requires virtually no thought and contains virtually no variety. Hell it doesn't even have PVP at this point. The environments are unappealing, the skills seriously unbalanced and in many cases underwhelming, the story is bland and really attrocious. It fails for casual "non pathological" gamers even more than the hard core gamers. It's an old game based on an old stale model that desperately needed updating but didn't get enough of innovation imo.

    In the end it was an attempt to make a game that appeals to two groups but really appeals to no one or next to no one in my opinion. It's a mess.
    Less subjective retarded arguments maybe? It has the most varied, well implemented (audio and visual) and most balanced skills by FAR in this genre. That's not even up for debate. Balance wise is not even Blizzard's merit, is just that the competition is unbelievably broken in that respect. And TL2 devs don't even bother with it, at least with PoE there's some hope.
    Same for the environments, you might not like the overall style, you prefer more colorful (TL2) or dark and gritty(PoE), but the variety and details are miles ahead in D3. Not to mention how well they actually support the gameplay, the visual clusterfuck and eyestrain being avoided as much as possible.
    Last edited by abijax; 2013-03-03 at 10:12 AM.

  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans Video Games's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughty8 View Post
    And again we are going back to: most hardcore and pathologicial and addicted players post on the forum complaining about the game, while those who stand as +80% of playerbase, just play it from time to time. I wish we could have any data about "played at least 1h/week" players number vs hardcore playerbase. If I am happy and I am playing, it means that I care about the game and I am happy with it. Is is soo hard to understand?

    Check the number of active WoW posters who complain vs even an 1/4th of the subscriptions number.
    I doubt I'm addicted because I forgot the game even existed still. The game is shit and just because it sold well and people like it doesn't mean it's good. It just means you like it. It is an objectively bad game. It is like most nes games; press few buttons and is soulless and pointless with the only redeeming quality is being to exploit dumb asses for hundreds of dollars on the rmah.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by abijax View Post
    It has the most varied, well implemented (audio and visual) and most balanced skills by FAR in this genre. That's not even up for debate.
    Are you talking about "the genre" no one bothers to develop games in?
    You can't really compare the game with half a billion budget and some startups with no funds.

    And what is that "skill balance" you are talking about? Could you please point me at least ONE spec which will allow me to get as much exp/hour and kill elites/hour as my current ww one?
    No matter what I choose, I get at least 50% performance decrease. Usually much more.
    Could you please point me to ONE another spec which allows barbarian to kill 5 elite packs in the same time on mp10 in 50million gear?
    Do you call THIS balance? Who are fooling but yourself?

    Same for the environments, you might not like the overall style, you prefer more colorful (TL2) or dark and gritty(PoE), but the variety and details are miles ahead in D3. Not to mention how well they actually support the gameplay, the visual clusterfuck and eyestrain being avoided as much as possible.
    D3 graphics sucks. Its at least 5 years old. Its unbeilivable that they wasted so much money and were not able to release the game with up-to-date graphics. D3 engine sucks. Its slow, it does not support modern hardware and new(and by new I mean 5 years old new) directx features.
    The fact that there are other games with 50+ times smaller budget and even worse graphics does not make bad graphics in this game any better. Because there are games with SIGNIFICANTLY better graphics. They are in different genres but the only reason for this is, as I said, no one bothers to develop games in this particular genre.
    Last edited by traen; 2013-03-03 at 11:24 AM.

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