GC has no intention of fixing pets when it comes to mechanical buffs

[Tehstool]

I seriously don't get Asmodejjj got banned. If it was for another thread, fine. If it was for another thread fine but in this thread he was the only one making any sense.
You seriously have no clue what the hell you are talking about. The only reason that pets are/will be Sacrificed is that the pet mechanics DON"T FUCKING WORK.
If pets worked properly, most classes would still use their pets. He wasn't the one attacking anyone, you guys are just butt hurt and refuse to understand that this hurts other people as well.
You can't tell people that they CAN NOT USE A SPEC BECAUSE YOU don't want them to. Maybe most people will want to play frost. Or Unholy. I sure like to play demonology but our pets are currently in a way worse state than yours are.
Pet mechanics are so bad for warlocks, DEMONOLOGY WITH AN IMP is the best spec to play now. Because Sacrifice was nerfed to the ground and other pets are melee so they bug like hell. So really... shut up and stop attacking people actually making sense.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 09:03 AM ----------



Enlighten me on how exactly pets gimp you on HWill, HGaralon and HProtectors. Pets do get all the buffs in this raid tier including Garalon leg buff.

You're disagreeing with me yet agreeing with me, what? You're the one who is not making sense. I'm not telling people to not use a spec. I'm simply stating no one in the right mind would have anything to do with pets on H protectors. Warlocks sac their pet because not saccing them would be gimping yourself, Dks go frost if they aren't frost already. Gosac was not nerfed to the ground, that's hyperbole. Also you seem so sympathetic for lock pets screwing the class over if they use them, but you don't care about hunter pets. Care to explain yourself? I'm being passive and I'm taking all classes into consideration. If I had a talent like gosac as a hunter I'd gladly use it without complaining on that fight, but hunters don't. I don't think you fully understand what is being discussed here. I'm not attacking anyone or any class.

Pets do NOT get all the buffs in this tier. Namely, but not limited to the H Will, H Stone Guard and H Protectors buffs.

Hunters pets are fine. I played hunter since vanilla and the pets never where better. They survive nearly everything and if they really get killed (very rare) you can instant revive it. Warlock pets on the other hand are fragile and warlocks have much more reason to complain.

Did you even read the OP and the posts following it? This thread is not about pet survivability at all.

[Araya]

How have they blocked a whole class, please tell me this.

[Nemesis003]

Most hunter's here are saying that they are doing so much less damage at HC Protectors than the rest.

I agree that hunters are at disadvantage but it's not that much that most people here are claiming. You see Someone have to get the buff as a last. If you make a proper arrangement for the buff you get from 1 to 9 when last boss is alive, thus, making it mean much less.

And don't say that it's stupid to take that into account when making strategies, of course they are taken into account.

Someone here can maybe compute how much less damage it is not to have that buff on pet for, say, 1,5 min compared to having that buff on pet. I think it's not game breaking if your not at World Top 10 guilds (and if you are that boss was not that difficult after all that it would have affected on the race anyway).

my guild is ranked 25 in the US for 25m, it matters to more then just the top 10. To the LFR heroes they don't care or do not even understand the concept like has been shown in this thread. However in ANY high end progession based guild and class that is at a slight disadvantage to a fight is likely to be sat. Hunters do not get the option to "overcome" the limitation of a pet not getting a major mechanical buff for a fight. Every other class that can have a pet gets the option. Its not even a matter of when the hunter gets teh buff its the matter that no matter what that hunter will always do less damage then any other class that gets that buff at the same time because its not as effective for the hunter. That is an epic fail on blizzard end.

[Tehstool]

Most hunter's here are saying that they are doing so much less damage at HC Protectors than the rest.

I agree that hunters are at disadvantage but it's not that much that most people here are claiming. You see Someone have to get the buff as a last. If you make a proper arrangement for the buff you get from 1 to 9 when last boss is alive, thus, making it mean much less.

And don't say that it's stupid to take that into account when making strategies, of course they are taken into account.

Someone here can maybe compute how much less damage it is not to have that buff on pet for, say, 1,5 min compared to having that buff on pet. I think it's not game breaking if your not at World Top 10 guilds (and if you are that boss was not that difficult after all that it would have affected on the race anyway).

On protectors it is effectively 15% less than everyone else.

[Hayro1]

Speaking of that 2p pet...dpes it still get owned by boss aoe? Never saw a fix mentioned anywhere.

According to Kenny the Hawk had like 1.9m last time he streamed, like ~3-4 days ago. Let's just hope it has the 90% AoE reduction as well.

[Ehrenpanzer]

name any other class that is force to be at a disadvantage for as many fights as hunters are because of pets not getting the buff.

There are 0 fights that warlocks are bad at, same with mages and DK even enhancement shaman out perform hunters in single target and AoE with the new changes.

Like i said pick any class and tell them you are limiting their class for no reason other then the devs are lazy and see if they are ok with it.

Arc mages and RoP would like to have a word with you....

[Nemesis003]

Arc mages and RoP would like to have a word with you....

wow so many people that do not grasp what is being said. Is it really that hard to understand????

seriously if you thing RoP is anything like having a pet not get a major mechanic from a boss i feel sorry for you.

[Meleti]

What's most frustrating here is that GC doesn't understand that having a pet is itself a limitation, not a boon. Our pets may be mostly immune to raid damage, but a class without a pet doesn't even have to worry about that to begin with.

[Deleted]

Can't we all just agree they should fix all pets?

[Nemesis003]

Can't we all just agree they should fix all pets?

thats what teh thread is about, GC has no intention of making pets anything other then a "limitation" as he put it.

[Tehstool]

According to Kenny the Hawk had like 1.9m last time he streamed, like ~3-4 days ago. Let's just hope it has the 90% AoE reduction as well.

It's like 1.18 million or something like that.

Arc mages and RoP would like to have a word with you....

Not sure if you are trying to argue with him or agree with him. RoP is limiting them and it's a very bad quality of life talent. I'm sure all the arcane mages would like to get rid of RoP. Which is akin to locks getting rid of their limitation aka their pet.

How have they blocked a whole class, please tell me this.

They really haven't.



Let me put all my previous posts into one concise one:

On paper the 15% less effective damage looks more detrimental than it actually is. I'm not complaining about the buff itself (as seen from my previous posts). This all started with the argument that warlocks, mages, and death knights have pets too and that we aren't the only class being punished as much. To counter this statement I simply said that mages don't have a pet in fire/arcane, warlocks can get rid of their pet and dks can spec frost. Now apart from the few hundred damage each class mentioned (and some others) is losing they can get the full benefit of the damage buff, but hunters can't do anything to avoid losing damage. That was what I was trying to explain to the 2 previous posters. Nothing more nothing less.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 09:54 AM ----------

Can't we all just agree they should fix all pets?

thats what teh thread is about, GC has no intention of making pets anything other then a "limitation" as he put it.

Yep, that's what I want too. They should have the damage buffs affect all classes when appropriate.

[Deleted]

On protectors it is effectively 15% less than everyone else.

Yes if you compare it to raidbots or something like that but you shouldn't because tactics on that fight should be made that disadvantage in mind and then it's not 15%.

Give me math of that 15 % if you do right arrangement for getting the buff and I will be quiet.

Is hunter worse for that fight? Maybe so, but you can counter it by just being smart.

[Ichifails]

on will pets do not get the titan gas, on garalon they had to break the boss to allow pets to get the buff because hunters were not allowed into that fight, on heroic protection the percentage damage buff will not apply to a pet.

You are just like Asmodejjj, you simply do not grasp the concept, every other class has the choice to not use a pet for a fight where the mechanics don't work for pets. hunters do not get the option, so the CLASS is fucked not simply just a spec. You are the one not smart enough to grasp the idea. Its one thing to have a spec be inferior to a fight there is no issue with that, but when you block an entire class from a fight it is a failure on the devs side.

Or you simply want to live in your own world and now want to accept the fact that others have problems as well.
If you are doing 100k DPS and your pet 20k, the pet not getting 50% damage increase would mean:
You 150k DPS
Pet 20k (instead of 30k)
= 170k instead of 180k DPS so you are losing what? 5.(5)6% of your DPS?

Warlock pets simply DO NOT WORK. The melee warlock pets on 80% of the fights on the PTR simply stay in 1 spot and they don't attack at all. They simply bug and stay out of the fight.
Warlock does 100k DPS ;Pet does 36k DPS =136k total
Warlock does 150k DPS
Pet does either 0 or 36k if you use the imp so it won't bug
= 186k instead of 222k DPS meaning we lose 19%
We use sacrifice, instead of doing 136k we end up doing 126k DPS
Warlock does 189k DPS so we are doing 17% less dps than with a pet.

Demonology with Service is the best spec currently for warlocks. That means demonology with 2 pets that have a high chance of doing 0 damage.
Service in general is the best choice for warlocks. We lose ~7% of our dps just by saccing our pet.
Tell me about hunter problems again.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 10:22 AM ----------

Can't we all just agree they should fix all pets?

As long as hunters think they are the only one affected, apparently not. Careful, a guy got banned for suggesting that all pet classes are hit.

[Nemesis003]

Or you simply want to live in your own world and now want to accept the fact that others have problems as well.
If you are doing 100k DPS and your pet 20k, the pet not getting 50% damage increase would mean:
You 150k DPS
Pet 20k (instead of 30k)
= 170k instead of 180k DPS so you are losing what? 5.(5)6% of your DPS?

Warlock pets simply DO NOT WORK. The melee warlock pets on 80% of the fights on the PTR simply stay in 1 spot and they don't attack at all. They simply bug and stay out of the fight.
Warlock does 100k DPS ;Pet does 36k DPS =136k total
Warlock does 150k DPS
Pet does either 0 or 36k if you use the imp so it won't bug
= 186k instead of 222k DPS meaning we lose 19%
We use sacrifice, instead of doing 136k we end up doing 126k DPS
Warlock does 189k DPS so we are doing 17% less dps than with a pet.

Demonology with Service is the best spec currently for warlocks. That means demonology with 2 pets that have a high chance of doing 0 damage.
Service in general is the best choice for warlocks. We lose ~7% of our dps just by saccing our pet.
Tell me about hunter problems again.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 10:22 AM ----------



As long as hunters think they are the only one affected, apparently not. Careful, a guy got banned for suggesting that all pet classes are hit.

you simply proved you have no idea how much pets impact the spec. As a BM hunter nearly 60% of your total damage comes from your pets. As SV 18-25% comes from your pets depending on spec. When there is a mechanical buff that does not apply to pets it makes it so BM CANNOT be used on that fight and even as SV you are at a disadvantage. I'm not saying other clases are not effected, I'm saying every other class that has a pat have a way to be not at a disadvantage, that is what you and the guy who got banned simply do not grasp.

Boo hoo you might lose 7% damage potential from a pet but then you get 100% of the bonuse from the mcahnical buff so you lose very very little on the fight. A hunter has no such option. No matter what under the best case senario hunters will ALWAYS get less of a mechanical buff then EVERY other class. Thats what you don't get.

Here is an example. Heroic Protectors hunters have to go to their inferior single target spec which is survival, even then they lose at least 15% damage compared to everyone else, so not only are they already a lesser spec for what that fight needs (single target) they are at even more of a disadvantage because they get less from the buff. Warlocks on the other hand use affliction their top DPS spec and they sac their pet having no pet limiation and do more damage because of it.

Now tell me how does that hurt warlocks anywhere close to how it huts hunter.... The answer is it doesn't do anything negative to warlocks and yet it massivly hurts hunters is more then one way.

[Ichifails]

you simply proved you have no idea how much pets impact the spec. As a BM hunter nearly 60% of your total damage comes from your pets. As SV 18-25% comes from your pets depending on spec. When there is a mechanical buff that does not apply to pets it makes it so BM CANNOT be used on that fight and even as SV you are at a disadvantage. I'm not saying other clases are not effected, I'm saying every other class that has a pat have a way to be not at a disadvantage, that is what you and the guy who got banned simply do not grasp.

Boo hoo you might lose 7% damage potential from a pet but then you get 100% of the bonuse from the mcahnical buff so you lose very very little on the fight. A hunter has no such option. No matter what under the best case senario hunters will ALWAYS get less of a mechanical buff then EVERY other class. Thats what you don't get.

Here is an example. Heroic Protectors hunters have to go to their inferior single target spec which is survival, even then they lose at least 15% damage compared to everyone else, so not only are they already a lesser spec for what that fight needs (single target) they are at even more of a disadvantage because they get less from the buff. Warlocks on the other hand use affliction their top DPS spec and they sac their pet having no pet limiation and do more damage because of it.

Now tell me how does that hurt warlocks anywhere close to how it huts hunter.... The answer is it doesn't do anything negative to warlocks and yet it massivly hurts hunters is more then one way.

Are you serious?:| Are you really unable to read that?
You can go SV and you will lose only 5.5-6% of your DPS.
We can go Sacrifice and lose 17% of our DPS. We can go another spec and still lose over 12% of our DPS.[COLOR="red"]

I might have fucked up the maths a bit and things are subject to change but at the moment, we lose more DPS by saccing our pet than you do by your pet not getting the buff. We lose more DPS as well when our pets don't get the buff. Either way we lose more than you guys do. You can go BM and you will lose more but you have the option of going another spec.

You lose damage based on what? Most of the time you lose damage because you are doing low damage anyway and no sane person would give a hunter stacks first so you end up with less uptime.

[Deleted]

you simply proved you have no idea how much pets impact the spec. As a BM hunter nearly 60% of your total damage comes from your pets. As SV 18-25% comes from your pets depending on spec. When there is a mechanical buff that does not apply to pets it makes it so BM CANNOT be used on that fight and even as SV you are at a disadvantage. I'm not saying other clases are not effected, I'm saying every other class that has a pat have a way to be not at a disadvantage, that is what you and the guy who got banned simply do not grasp.

Boo hoo you might lose 7% damage potential from a pet but then you get 100% of the bonuse from the mcahnical buff so you lose very very little on the fight. A hunter has no such option. No matter what under the best case senario hunters will ALWAYS get less of a mechanical buff then EVERY other class. Thats what you don't get.

Here is an example. Heroic Protectors hunters have to go to their inferior single target spec which is survival, even then they lose at least 15% damage compared to everyone else, so not only are they already a lesser spec for what that fight needs (single target) they are at even more of a disadvantage because they get less from the buff. Warlocks on the other hand use affliction their top DPS spec and they sac their pet having no pet limiation and do more damage because of it.

Now tell me how does that hurt warlocks anywhere close to how it huts hunter.... The answer is it doesn't do anything negative to warlocks and yet it massivly hurts hunters is more then one way.

Where comes that 15 % less DPS? I still don't get it.

Yes you lose lots of dps if you get the buff first but you need to compare it to other classes when all of you get the buff last, like hunters should get. It simply cannot be 15 %.

If your pet does 20% of your damage and you have the buff for 20% of the fight how does it make 15 % less dps? I don't understand.

[Tehstool]

Yes if you compare it to raidbots or something like that but you shouldn't because tactics on that fight should be made that disadvantage in mind and then it's not 15%.

Give me math of that 15 % if you do right arrangement for getting the buff and I will be quiet.

Is hunter worse for that fight? Maybe so, but you can counter it by just being smart.

No, I don't compare anything with raidbots that aggregates all the parses. Individual parses are much better. I also don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. Effectively 15% is not the same thing as 15%. My pets did 17585.7 dps on H protectors and my pets are simming for 16721.25 dps or ~15% of my dps. If the pets are simming nearly the same except with mine doing more in practice, that means that every stack I effectively get 15% less per stack than everybody else gets. Do you want me to continue or do you know what I mean by effective now?

Or you simply want to live in your own world and now want to accept the fact that others have problems as well.
If you are doing 100k DPS and your pet 20k, the pet not getting 50% damage increase would mean:
You 150k DPS
Pet 20k (instead of 30k)
= 170k instead of 180k DPS so you are losing what? 5.(5)6% of your DPS?

Warlock pets simply DO NOT WORK. The melee warlock pets on 80% of the fights on the PTR simply stay in 1 spot and they don't attack at all. They simply bug and stay out of the fight.
Warlock does 100k DPS ;Pet does 36k DPS =136k total
Warlock does 150k DPS
Pet does either 0 or 36k if you use the imp so it won't bug
= 186k instead of 222k DPS meaning we lose 19%
We use sacrifice, instead of doing 136k we end up doing 126k DPS
Warlock does 189k DPS so we are doing 17% less dps than with a pet.

Demonology with Service is the best spec currently for warlocks. That means demonology with 2 pets that have a high chance of doing 0 damage.
Service in general is the best choice for warlocks. We lose ~7% of our dps just by saccing our pet.
Tell me about hunter problems again.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 10:22 AM ----------



As long as hunters think they are the only one affected, apparently not. Careful, a guy got banned for suggesting that all pet classes are hit.

You are just arbitrarily picking random numbers. That doesn't help with your argument. I could make the same argument and make it support what you are trying to disprove by arbitrarily picking numbers. Also

PTR

It's the PTR, stuff changes. For example the hunter t15 2 piece spawned a pet that had 12k hp now it has 1 million. They fix bugs as long as the community tells them they are bugged. You don't understand what I'm saying here. I'm done man.

[Ichifails]

No, I don't compare anything with raidbots that aggregates all the parses. Individual parses are much better. I also don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. Effectively 15% is not the same thing as 15%. My pets did 17585.7 dps on H protectors and my pets are simming for 16721.25 dps or ~15% of my dps. If the pets are simming nearly the same except with mine doing more in practice, that means that every stack I effectively get 15% less per stack than everybody else does. Do you want me to continue or do you know what I mean by effective now?




You are just arbitrarily picking random numbers. That doesn't help with your argument. I could make the same argument and make it support what you are trying to disprove by arbitrarily picking numbers. Also It's the PTR, stuff changes. For example the hunter t15 2 piece spawned a pet that had 12k hp now it has 1 million. They fix bugs as long as the community tells them they are bugged. You don't understand what I'm saying here. I'm done man.

They are not random numbers, they are based on how things sim currently for warlocks. Warlock pets work so bad that if I want to play demonology (like let's say feng when people had low dps and we needed a knockback) I will either go with Sacrifice or I will not summon the pet and just summon him when the adds spawn to do the aoe. And even like that I have to hope it will not run like a fucker and bug out of the room.
Your pet's bug on some fights as well but it's not anywhere near how bad ours bug.

Can you really not agree that it will hurt someone else and maybe more than it will hurt hunters?
And for the 15% statement, go back to 4th grade... or if you are american you might learn that in highschool >.>.

[Deleted]

No, I don't compare anything with raidbots that aggregates all the parses. Individual parses are much better. I also don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. Effectively 15% is not the same thing as 15%. My pets did 17585.7 dps on H protectors and my pets are simming for 16721.25 dps or ~15% of my dps. If the pets are simming nearly the same except with mine doing more in practice, that means that every stack I effectively get 15% less per stack than everybody else does. Do you want me to continue or do you know what I mean by effective now?




You are just arbitrarily picking random numbers. That doesn't help with your argument. I could make the same argument and make it support what you are trying to disprove by arbitrarily picking numbers. Also It's the PTR, stuff changes. For example the hunter t15 2 piece spawned a pet that had 12k hp now it has 1 million. They fix bugs as long as the community tells them they are bugged. You don't understand what I'm saying here. I'm done man.

Okay so it goes close to 5.5-6% what the other guy said? Then when you take account the time you have the buff the difference is not really that huge like you are saying is it?

Like I said at the start hunters are worse than some other classes yes. But it's not that huge of a difference nor game-breaking what is said in this topic.

Should it be fixed? Absolutely.

[Nemesis003]

They are not random numbers, they are based on how things sim currently for warlocks. Warlock pets work so bad that if I want to play demonology (like let's say feng when people had low dps and we needed a knockback) I will either go with Sacrifice or I will not summon the pet and just summon him when the adds spawn to do the aoe. And even like that I have to hope it will not run like a fucker and bug out of the room.
Your pet's bug on some fights as well but it's not anywhere near how bad ours bug.

Can you really not agree that it will hurt someone else and maybe more than it will hurt hunters?
And for the 15% statement, go back to 4th grade... or if you are american you might learn that in highschool >.>.

the only thing you have proven is you have no idea how your own class works... If you think you don't sac your pet as affliction then you are just bad, you also have no idea what the machanics of the fight are so you don't do hard mode raiding, who this thread has no bearing on you.

and BTW warlock pets use the exact same AI as hunter pets, so where ever a warlock pet screws up a hunter pet does also.


Even if you were demo you would be effected less then a BM hunter as no close come CLOSE to as reliant on a pet as a BM hunter is on their pet. Demos locks get about 30-40% of their damage from their pet BM hunters get nearly 60% from their pet. No lock spec comes close to being as dependent on their pet as a BM hunter.