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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    2. 30k? You're shitting me right? Epics on the AH are 3k tops. Raid drops cost a lot but not the pattern ones. And they can craft their own by getting the mats and giving it to someone to make.
    Not everyone is on a high-pop server. Low-pop servers, the 476 crafted items are twice that much or more. BoE 476 drops go for 5-15k. DM cards are still 15k+ if you can even find them.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    Agreed. Believe it or not as much as I'm dissing their daily system, I actually like Blizzard, but I'm objective about game design decisions. I fucking HATE when they hide behind failed systems instead of just admitting they fucked up. Then you get all of the Blizzard sheep who just throw out the same rhetoric like puppets.
    this is blizzard tactic my friend every new xpack they change what worked for year only to slowly revert back during the xpack,
    they introduced heirloom and slowly rend them useless in the current levelling only to put now the upgrader in 5.2,
    they introduced the tabard and changed it back only to put the stupid commendation back in 5.1 and now the farm order and the daily dungeon/scenario rep awards, they changed the option to do the 7 dungeon in a single day,
    they changed the loot in lfr so we don't need to deal with douces but now we are completely bound to a system tuned to keep us doing a raid each weak only for gold and for the rare loot.

    they change thing that work well just for the sake of changing not for improving them
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  3. #263
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Sad they "acknowledge" this because it isn't true. They aren't mandatory at all. You don't need to spend the VP or JP and there are ways to unlocking some factions rep item without doing dailies.
    If you want to do anything usefull with VP they are. Nobody had a problem with daillies if they didn't lock you out from valor gear.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    If you want to do anything usefull with VP they are. Nobody had a problem with daillies if they didn't lock you out from valor gear.
    The problem is that they balked at getting rid of valor gear entirely. They fully planed on doing exactly that but they recognized what a fowl up that was and instead you get some mutated half system. I wish they would have. It would have sucked so bad. It would have potentially led to them loosing their obsession with RNG.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Tabards would be the sane and rational thing to do but I guess us "crying babies" haven't cried enough. Maybe If i crap my pants I can do it.
    Sane and rational? Ha! They made a huge mistake adding them back in Wrath because everybody got used to facerolling through dungeons for easy and fast rep. I actually don't mind them adding other ways to gain VP/rep, which is why I edited my post before your reply, but I hope they don't just decide to bring rep tabards back.

    Perhaps BoA rep tabards if you reach exalted on at least one character, so your alts can farm heroic 5man gear while gaining rep? I'm sure everybody would love that.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    Sane and rational? Ha! They made a huge mistake adding them back in Wrath because everybody got used to facerolling through dungeons for easy and fast rep. I actually don't mind them adding other ways to gain VP, which is why I edited my post before your reply, but I hope they don't just decide to bring rep tabards back.

    Perhaps BoA rep tabards if you reach exalted one at least one character, so your alts can farm heroic 5man gear while gaining rep? I'm sure everybody would love that.
    Although I absolutely despise the current daily/rep system, it's a fair thing to say that the tabard system wasn't great either. I think a BoA rep tabard is a solid idea for people with alts, but it has been suggested 10000 times on the official WoW forums, including by me, and instead they took this ridiculous 'commendation' route.

  7. #267
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    The tabard system wasn't great only for BLIZZARD.
    For us players it was AWESOME system.
    Hence it was removed.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by saucywench View Post
    Absolutely true, having ilvl restrictions forced people to do dailies "IF" they ever wanted the gear necessary to meet requirements of raiding, whether is was rf or normal; so in this regard they were necessary which felt a heck of alot like manditory.
    Absolutely false. MSV normal is designed to do in heroic blues. You can get crafted epics and the boots and gear from Sha of Anger and LFR. You do not need to grind dailies to raid.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    Sane and rational? Ha! They made a huge mistake adding them back in Wrath because everybody got used to facerolling through dungeons for easy and fast rep. I actually don't mind them adding other ways to gain VP/rep, which is why I edited my post before your reply, but I hope they don't just decide to bring rep tabards back.

    Perhaps BoA rep tabards if you reach exalted on at least one character, so your alts can farm heroic 5man gear while gaining rep? I'm sure everybody would love that.
    I'm all for boa rep tabards but I don't view rep tabards as a mistake. I also don't view double dipping as a bad thing. It just makes activities rewarding. I don't see the problem with that. What's wrong with rewarding dungeons? and fast and eays rep for that matter?
    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 12:15 AM ----------

    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    The tabard system wasn't great only for BLIZZARD.
    For us players it was AWESOME system.
    Hence it was removed.

    Why is it shitty for Blizzard? Cause it makes reps easy? Make more content then. Don't ask me to grind more for less.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    They are not acknowledging it. They don't say that daily quests were mandatory. They just say that they felt mandatory to a lot of people in their playerbase. Not the same at all.
    Which is why they are making the 5.2 daily faction basically useless, right? They flat out said 5.2 daily quests won't feel mandatory. Why is that? Because unless you need loot 26 item levels or more below current valor gear or want whatever fluff mount is exalted, you won't have to touch it.

    That's a rather large move from top of the line valor gear behind the dailies to nothing worth a crap behind the dailies.

    Apparently what the playerbase "feels" is mandatory matters to Blizzard when enough of them quit.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 12:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    The problem is that they balked at getting rid of valor gear entirely. They fully planed on doing exactly that but they recognized what a fowl up that was and instead you get some mutated half system. I wish they would have. It would have sucked so bad. It would have potentially led to them loosing their obsession with RNG.
    Will they ever? RNG serves nothing and no one but Blizzard as a slowdown mechanism, yet players act like it's the best thing since sliced bread.

  11. #271
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Why is it shitty for Blizzard? Cause it makes reps easy? Make more content then. Don't ask me to grind more for less.
    That's exactly why it's bad for Blizzard - it requires them to pump up more content than they want (want - not can, they can pump out more content, they just don't want, it's costly - it's cheaper to gate content)

    ---------------------------------------------
    Also I'd like to repeat myself from previous pages.

    If it FEELS mandatory - it IS mandatory.
    How else you can define something as mandatory?
    If you like doing something - you do it and don't feel it's mandatory EVEN if it is.

    It's all in the feelings area.
    Last edited by Elim Garak; 2013-03-02 at 12:19 AM.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  12. #272
    Deleted
    i never thought i would find myself saying this, but bring back tabard rep. im sick of doing dailies even with the commendations you can get at revered to help your other chars, they all suck after levelling up 2 chars to 90. i would rather spend my time grinding hc`s than doing dailies & im sure the dps guys out there would have quicker waiting times also.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by reemi View Post
    I quit because of daily and as I can see, WoW isnt better yet... I hate questing.
    How completely ridiculous you and everyone who did this is. You're willing to quit WoW altogether, but not quit dailies? WHY NOT JUST QUIT DOING DAILIES

    And don't tell me "I have to" if it's for gear. You get gear in raids. If you've got access to, say, HONORED level VP gear and still struggling enough in raids that you can't even get gear anymore, then you've got bigger problems than that last upgrade.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 12:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post

    If it FEELS mandatory - it IS mandatory.
    If you like doing something - you do it and don't feel it's mandatory EVEN if it is.
    Blatant contradiction. "Even if it is mandatory, but you don't feel it's mandatory, then it's not." You can't start with "Even if it is X" and end with "then it's not X".

    You don't need to be exalted to raid. You don't even need to be revered. You don't even need VP gear at all. Yes, you might get a slower start if your whole group is new to the tier and doesn't have VP gear, but that is YOUR CHOICE to take advantage of everything offered to accelerate the process. YOU HAVE A CHOICE, therefore it's not mandatory.

    This is all aside from the fact that if dailies were as "mandatory" as everyone says, then everyone would have done them every day, in which case they would have been exalted in the first 3 or 4 weeks with everyone. SO WHY ARE YOU STILL DOING DAILIES??? If it's for any other reason than rep, then they're not mandatory, period. If it's because you still need any rep, then the very fact that you're still not exalted SIX MONTHS after release PROVES that you don't do them anywhere near every day and therefore they can't possibly be mandatory because you're not doing them.

    It's all in the feelings area.[/QUOTE]

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 12:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post

    If it FEELS mandatory - it IS mandatory.
    If you like doing something - you do it and don't feel it's mandatory EVEN if it is.
    Blatant contradiction. "Even if it is mandatory, but you don't feel it's mandatory, then it's not." You can't start with "Even if it is X" and end with "then it's not X".

    You don't need to be exalted to raid. You don't even need to be revered. You don't even need VP gear at all. Yes, you might get a slower start if your whole group is new to the tier and doesn't have VP gear, but that is YOUR CHOICE to take advantage of everything offered to accelerate the process. YOU HAVE A CHOICE, therefore it's not mandatory.

    This is all aside from the fact that if dailies were as "mandatory" as everyone says, then everyone would have done them every day, in which case they would have been exalted in the first 3 or 4 weeks with everyone. SO WHY ARE YOU STILL DOING DAILIES??? If it's for any other reason than rep, then they're not mandatory, period. If it's because you still need any rep, then the very fact that you're still not exalted SIX MONTHS after release PROVES that you don't do them anywhere near every day and therefore they can't possibly be mandatory because you're not doing them.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    I noticed that they are finally acknowledging that dailies are too forced.

    "Mists of Pandaria set out to provide lots of things for you to do, but daily quests ended up feeling more mandatory than they wanted. The Patch 5.2 daily quests feel less mandatory."

    Off main page.

    It's sad and frustrating though because it took months of people bitching and complaining and they just defended it by saying 'you don't have to do dailies'. Yes you did because it's the only way to spend the damn JP/VP. Unreal. They didn't lose me personally, but I know a lot of players just in my guild/on my server who quit over the bullshit reputation grinds.
    Blizzard have this unfortunate habit of publicly ignoring feedback, dismissing any criticism or calling out the people raising the criticism, right up to the point where they make the changes. Meaning their protestations were just bullshit PR doubletalk.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenegade42 View Post
    Blizzard have this unfortunate habit of publicly ignoring feedback, dismissing any criticism or calling out the people raising the criticism, right up to the point where they make the changes. Meaning their protestations were just bullshit PR doubletalk.
    What's worse is that they hide behind players on forums. It's disgusting. I don't expect them to jump at every criticism but daily criticism was pretty pervasive and it took them 6 months to get their shit together and at least half of that was CMS arguing on forums instead of responding to player feedback. Such a waste of an expansion.

  16. #276
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenegade42 View Post
    Blizzard have this unfortunate habit of publicly ignoring feedback, dismissing any criticism or calling out the people raising the criticism, right up to the point where they make the changes. Meaning their protestations were just bullshit PR doubletalk.
    A great deal of what Blizzard has said in recent years has been bullshit PR doubletalk. It's almost as frustrating as the crappy job they're doing curating WoW.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Since you mention Krasarang, you were doing this in 5.1. In 5.1, all your blue 463s could be upgraded to 471 with JP, which would make it possible to enter HoF/ToES with only blue gear.
    I spent the majority of my Justice points on the blue 458 trinket from Dominance Offensive, since trinkets were the one thing I had trouble finding in heroics. I have no way to check the exact number now, but I do remember not having enough JP (1500) to upgrade a single item even after basically being done with heroic gearing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    You hit 90. Maybe you do your Sha boots, a few dungeons, let's say you average out to a 430 ilevel. After a few more dungeons you smoothly get into the MSV LFR. Here is where it begins to become mandatory.

    Most people will get 463 ilevel very quickly, but you need 470 to run the HoF and Terrace LFRs.

    What are your options if you decided not to do dailies/reputations:

    1. Upgrade every slot of 463 heroic items to 471 @ 1500 JP each. You get 30 Justice per scenario and I think 50 per dungeon. Do the math
    2. You can get lucky as fuck in LFR. You know damn well all of the people who are experiencing the RNG wall. Myself included. And even if you get a few pieces, it still won't give you a massive 10 point bump to your ilevel.
    3. Spend 30,000g (depending on server) for your chest and glove items that are crafted. You can't make them yourself because, infact, the patterns are behind the gauntlet of dailies.
    4. I heard scenarios drop epics. I only ever saw 1 in game on a random guy. Even worse RNG wise than LFR gear.
    I tried doing Sha of Anger a few times. Apparently my faction was pretty terrible at organizing and leading people. You'd think if a 25 man newbie raid can kill LFR bosses, a 40 man raid could kill some farmable world boss. Nope. So I never got a kill from it. I don't think I ever even saw or heard calls for the other world boss in the time I was in Pandaria.

    460 was pretty easy, got most of that from the heroic dungeons. Also helps when you're the only one that can even use the drops; no competition.

    470 was nightmarish. Had to break the bank to buy 2 items from the AH. Managed to churn out the easier dailies (Farmville and Chinese dragons, which don't give gear) to get the 90 small charms to get 3 big charms for LFR for the last 2 weeks. Got fail bags for all 6 tries. Got crazy lucky to at least get a main hand from LFR. Had to make some calculations and ended up deciding to just force myself to do the Dominance Offensive dailies to get the ring, since it was item level 496. Luckily I also got a 483 PVP resilience trinket from a rare boss in the Alliance base, though it almost feels like cheating to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    So ok maybe they AREN'T mandatory. But if you don't do them you hit a brick progression wall where you will need MONTHS of grinding JP to upgrade, INSANE RNG luck or a get a fucking carry through a PUG, and PUGs usually ask for normal experience + already good gear to make up for the lack of coordination. Truth is, Blizzard doesn't make them mandatory at all, but they make all of the other paths so much more brutal that you don't have a legitimate choice. Add in just ONE alt. Just ONE. Fuck that .

    Can't believe there are people who are enforcing their rhetoric that it just FEELS mandatory. When someone says they are giving you 3 options, but they make two of them incredibly ridiculous and painful.... sure I guess it only FEELS mandatory that you take the other one.... give me a fucking break.
    It feels like these arguments are boiling down to the equivalent of "What do you think 'mandatory' means?" A lot of stuff in the game isn't mandatory if you take them to the limits of absurdity. You don't need gear, you don't have to raid, you don't have to group up, you don't have to play, etc.

    But if Blizzard has made other options extremely random or inefficient, then by comparison, the most expedient option is going to seem mandatory. Does it make a difference if it "is" or just "seems" to be? Not really. You're just splitting hairs at that point. I could just walk the 20 miles to work every day if I don't like the commute or paying for my car; driving isn't mandatory, I have options. But I'd be out of my mind to do that.

    So... Keep running LFR and killing world bosses once a week and hope you don't get a fail bag or a dupe/sidegrade, run dungeons and scenarios like crazy to slowly upgrade your gear by a few points with JP (which will be impossible after the next patch), or even get more crazier and win one of those 0.1% chance to drop epics, or just knuckle down and do the god-awful boring dailies to unlock reputation levels (to open up new dailies!) so you can actually spend the Valor Points they keep taunting you with. What a dilemma.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    I'm not saying it's impossible to gear up without dailies, I'm saying it's a big pain in the ass to do so and requires luck and/or gold. Argue all you want, but Blizzard has looked at the data and made an official announcement which basically means the data says you're wrong. GG.
    It's only hard to gear up outside of dailies if ALL you do is LFR you can kill bosses in normal mode MSV with a 463 ilvl.

  19. #279
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    I think it is the vocal minority. Very few people in my guild, or really anywhere else but a few forum posts. And if you look at even this thead.. there is the OP and one other person (who posts a lot), and mostly everyone else thinking dailies were fine. It was the same as the official forums.. you had threads with 400 posts... 200 of them happy people, and the other 200 are 5 people complaining.

    I have 4 characters who have finished LFR.. 3 of them never did a single daily. But then again, I am good at math, unlike the 2 people in this thread complaining.
    I suspect it's far more that a couple people on this thread, and more than 3% of active players who were unhappy with the MoP dailies, but I don't actually know. Anyone happen to have a link to a relevant poll handy?

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Brash View Post
    It's only hard to gear up outside of dailies if ALL you do is LFR you can kill bosses in normal mode MSV with a 463 ilvl.
    So if you don't raid fuck you. In fact even if you do raid it's a big fuck you because your still stuck dealing with Blizzards massive obsession with rng. Considering less and less people are actively raiding (outside of lfr) i'm not sure that's wise for the developers.

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