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  1. #21
    Seems less like a commentary on whether or not they were mandatory, more that they didn't feel like the right amount of mandatory.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-03-01 at 08:28 AM.
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    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  2. #22
    they don't say they are mandatory, they say they feel mandatory.

  3. #23
    Immortal Clockwork Pinkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    1. Heroic 5 man epic drops are 1% or less. Good luck grinding those.


    2. Your average player doesn't have 30k to dump on epics (especially if they aren't doing dailies). They cannot craft their own because all the patterns are locked behind the rep.
    3. Sha boots and Klaxxi neck do help - but they WILL NOT get you to 470 with the rest of your gear being 463.
    4. PvE players generally don't want to put themselves through the hell of trying to grind PvP for gear.
    5. Grinding LFR MSV for the remaining pieces = 6 bags of fail PER WEEK. The drop rates from these bags is fairly abysmal as it's extremely common to go weeks without getting a single drop.

    So, yea, I guess you're right - if you want to put your character through progression hell - I guess you can skip the dailies and enjoy spending your playtime dealing with the options above.
    1. Better than nothing, it feels the same when doing LFR and bridging the gap of 460-470 relying just on LFR drops.
    2. What server do you play on where epics are 30k? Off hand scribe fan cost 1.5k, darkmoon fair trinkets barely go higher than 10k, and usually they're the most expensive thing. If you don't want to buy the item itself, buy the mats and spend no less than 2k, including tip.
    3. It's a boost, but won't get you there, never said it would, there's more work required, but there's options, dailies or crafted gear.
    4. Do AV and avoid PvP 90% of the time. Also not required though.
    5. RNG is RNG, you get something or you don't. Simple as that, has not changed since LFR was released. A drop chance is a chance, not a promise.

    So yea, he's pretty right. Progression usually is hell. Getting to queue for LFD when it first dropped was no walk in the park as a fresh 80, getting into LFR when it first dropped was no walk in the park as a fresh 85. (Granted, it was easier though, because it was the end of the expansion and you can just spam the new 5 mans for the ilvl).
    Last edited by Clockwork Pinkie; 2013-03-01 at 08:36 AM.


  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    I'm not saying it's impossible to gear up without dailies, I'm saying it's a big pain in the ass to do so and requires luck and/or gold. Argue all you want, but Blizzard has looked at the data and made an official announcement which basically means the data says you're wrong. GG.
    Wrong about what? All I'm saying is they are not mandatory. You are arguing that they are mandatory when there are other clear ways to get gear.
    The only thing Blizzard datas shows is people are just too lazy to get the gear from other source and just want the gear handed to them.

    Also this:
    Quote Originally Posted by dense View Post
    they don't say they are mandatory, they say they feel mandatory.
    End SJW
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    I fucking hate this LGBT and gender equality shit invading video games.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenNinja View Post
    - you are a LFR raider and there's a tough situation for you waiting between ilvl 460 and ilvl 470. For MSV LFR, you only need ilvl 460 which you get through 5man heroics. But for the other two LFR raids, you need ilvl 470, which is tough to reach when all you do is LFR, so in this case you're actually forced to do dailies to get more ilvl.
    Wow, someone gets it!


    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenNinja View Post
    But anyway, after seeing so many players complain, whether they're right or not, sometimes you have to give in to what the majority thinks is right...
    The drawback you have from lowering the amount of dailies available is that there's effectively less to do in WoW. And we know from Cataclysm that if there's nothing to do out there besides raiding or PvP, players also complain.
    I, personally, don't mind the amount of dailies in the game. I also view it as something to do - but, I think all they would need to do to improve on the system is simply spread out the gear a bit more evenly among the different rep levels. Maybe have a few more epics available at honored level so that people who aren't interested in grinding to exalted can skip it without too much hassle.
    Last edited by spectrefax; 2013-03-01 at 08:47 AM.

  6. #26
    My monk friend is 491 and when he got Klaxxi revered he already had a raid epic in the slot.
    All it took were 2 MSV runs and 4 Terrace runs, all you need are friends who can do raids.
    If you're not a scrub yourself, you can probably find people alike you at the same gear level, he even started out at 467 ilvl and tanked 5/6 of HoF normal just fine.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    I noticed that they are finally acknowledging that dailies are too forced.

    "Mists of Pandaria set out to provide lots of things for you to do, but daily quests ended up feeling more mandatory than they wanted. The Patch 5.2 daily quests feel less mandatory."

    Off main page.

    It's sad and frustrating though because it took months of people bitching and complaining and they just defended it by saying 'you don't have to do dailies'. Yes you did because it's the only way to spend the damn JP/VP. Unreal. They didn't lose me personally, but I know a lot of players just in my guild/on my server who quit over the bullshit reputation grinds.
    No, they acknowledge that they FELT too mandatory, not that they ARE too mandatory. Learn to understand the difference. They always acknowledged this, but they still feel it's not mandatory, people make them mandatory. In the end, that's not good either, so they are changing it, but it's completely different from your wrong quote.

    I agree with Blizzard, they are not mandatory. I hardly do any dailies, don't raid and didn't buy anything on the AH and still am at ilvl 481. They feel mandatory, like Blizzard said, because people can't control themselves, but the are not mandatory.
    Arguing with a troll is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what you do or say, he will just knock over the pieces, take a shit on the board and strut around like he won the whole damn thing.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Wrong about what? All I'm saying is they are not mandatory. You are arguing that they are mandatory when there are other clear ways to get gear.
    The only thing Blizzard datas shows is people are just too lazy to get the gear from other source and just want the gear handed to them.

    Also this:
    They aren't mandatory. Neither is leveling. Neither is using any ability other than auto-attack. Just because it's not mandatory doesn't mean the game design doesn't strongly encourage it and steer you toward it. And, just because things aren't mandatory doesn't mean the other paths aren't much, much more effort/work/hassle.

    Take the ironman challenge - that playstyle is mandatory, but, due to the games design - it makes it infinitely more difficult to progress your character.


    You seem to think that Blizzard is acknowledging that dailies were mandatory - that's not what they are saying (I don't think anyone is arguing that they are mandatory). They're saying, that they "feel" mandatory because if you choose not to do them, the other available choice are much more of a hassle for the average player. Because the average PvE player doesn't PvP, doesn't have much gold to drop on epics, and doesn't have a raid team to go from 5 man heroics > normal raids. Hence the reason they "feel" forced and that they acknowledged it.

    Edit: I imagine they're seeing their majority player base (the ones without raid teams for normals who use LFR as their end game - yes, these guys are the overwhelming majority) getting bottle necked between LFR MSV 460 entry and the 470 entry for HoF and Terrace when not doing dailies.
    Last edited by spectrefax; 2013-03-01 at 08:48 AM.

  9. #29
    That would require effort.

  10. #30
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Feh, bunch of whiners.

    Something "feeling" some way and "being" some way are two different things. Dailies obviously weren't a definitive state of "too mandatory," I did them all at my own leisure and finished them all up quite a while ago.

    A bunch of people whined that THEY "Felt" too required, and so Blizzard is relating that dailies "felt" too required to those people. Just like how some people "felt" cataclysm heroics were too difficult, when they obviously were not.


    Sadly, blizzard can't really do any "alternate" means of progression because people will instantly assume that the easiest, quickest way is the only "offered" way and is therefore mandatory. Even if they actually DO offer alternate means.

    You could go straight from heroic dungeons into normal raids, as they were tuned for but... NOPE... gotta have epics to get those epics. Skill/attempts take effort and time, dailies just take time.

    You could grind gold to buy crafted items but NOPE... gold takes effort and time to make, dailies just take time.

    You could do LFR but NOPE... gear isn't "as good" as rep gear, LFR takes time and luck, and dailies just take time.


    A sad state people have skewed this game into being.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-03-01 at 08:53 AM.
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    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #31
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    At the beginning of the expansion there was only 1 item per slot in heroic dungeons for your character (sometimes like spirit chest piece there was none), if like me you were trying to gear for raids at a decent rate (not hardcore, just 463 to not be carried) it certainly did feel mandatory to do dailys and I hated it.
    Now its very different since there is alot more variety in loot sources.

  12. #32
    Bloodsail Admiral KunkkaTheAdmiral's Avatar
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    I have done the dailies and I liked them, I always did them with two friends so we could keep the morals high and have fun, so I have bought a few Valor Items with them but actually there was no problem for me hopping into the other LFR's or even an raid once or twice. I had atleast 1 one per LFR run, so I can't validify the "abysmal" drop chance.

    Besides that I have gotten 4 Itemlevel 476 Items buy running Scenarios who are short, make fun and prove to have interesting lore time and time again.
    If blizzard thinks they fell mandatory its not that they are mandatory though, thats something the player's made up.
    "Why do we fight? To protect home and family, to preserve balance and bring harmony. For my kind the true question is, what is worth fighting for?"

  13. #33
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    I never thought it was a big deal and I have terrible luck with drops. It's even less of a problem now for alts with the double rep. Still I wish you could trade 250 valor for a coin.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by KunkkaTheAdmiral View Post
    I have done the dailies and I liked them, I always did them with two friends so we could keep the morals high and have fun, so I have bought a few Valor Items with them but actually there was no problem for me hopping into the other LFR's or even an raid once or twice. I had atleast 1 one per LFR run, so I can't validify the "abysmal" drop chance.

    Besides that I have gotten 4 Itemlevel 476 Items buy running Scenarios who are short, make fun and prove to have interesting lore time and time again.
    If blizzard thinks they fell mandatory its not that they are mandatory though, thats something the player's made up.
    Four 476 items from Scenarios?!

    Didn't even realize you could get anything from scenarios. I've done loads and only got gold. You must be lucky or I am really unlucky.

    On topic: I don't have time for organised raiding anymore, so I just do LFR. Dailies definitely were mandatory to me. I'm not content running one MSV LFR per week, and then logging off. The game needs another way to get gear. It used to be heroic dungeons in TBC, then rep in Wotlk and Cata, and it's still rep now, it's just that the rep is gated behind dailies AND VP.

    Seriously in terms of "progressing your character" dailies are mandatory. You don't have to do them, true, but what else are you going to do when you log in? Other than LFR there's nothing to do that makes your character more powerful. That's the problem. For people that hate daily quests (and I can totally see why), it is a real problem.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 09:20 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    I never thought it was a big deal and I have terrible luck with drops. It's even less of a problem now for alts with the double rep. Still I wish you could trade 250 valor for a coin.
    I'm the opposite, I would love to trade coins for valor (or to increase your weekly valor cap). Being restricted to 1k per week really annoys me, as basically you're getting an item every 2/3 or even 4 weeks if you have really terrible luck (as I do). And that mandates that you have a) the rep, and b) done enough dungeons/dailies to get 1k valor per week.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerodyne View Post
    It used to be heroic dungeons in TBC, then rep in Wotlk and Cata, and it's still rep now, it's just that the rep is gated behind dailies AND VP.
    You realize when epics required just reputation (in wotlk/cata), they required you to be exalted with an associated faction. Now when you can get epics at honored with each faction, you can get that most of the time before hitting 90. Cata model was a failure because you could grind your way to exalted extremely fast, as opposed to current factions.

  16. #36
    Because unlocking Honored/Revered took sooooooo much time.
    And with a max of 1000 valor per week you could take it in your own pace.

    Too bad people didn't realize.

    Seriously in terms of "progressing your character" dailies are mandatory. You don't have to do them, true, but what else are you going to do when you log in? Other than LFR there's nothing to do that makes your character more powerful. That's the problem. For people that hate daily quests (and I can totally see why), it is a real problem.
    Okay... so we have dailies that felt mandatory, although doing them every day is idiotic (good luck spending Valor at the same rate you unlock items) and this whole shit became a trend to whine about.
    I did dailies 2-3 times a week and even then I unlocked items faster than I could spend VP. If you're unwilling to do some repetitive tasks in an MMO to unlocking items, and instead expecting it from sleeping through 5mans, then.. well.

    PS, by now anyone who plays a 90 should have the commendation. I was Revered with the Klaxxi after finishing Dread Wastes on an alt and doing the unlocked dailies ONCE. Total time to spend the valor on the unlocked items? 4 weeks.

    Dailies aren't particularly fun, but they are fast, rewarding and hey, I would've thought that 4.3 taught us that being able to progress without leaving the city other than picking up an ugly tabard is bad for the game
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2013-03-01 at 09:48 AM.
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  17. #37
    Dailies that give you VP rewards will always be mandatory unless you want to be exclusionary.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by dense View Post
    they don't say they are mandatory, they say they feel mandatory.
    I was just about to post this very sentence!

    It seems the OP's reading between the lines to validate his own point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.
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  19. #39
    Bloodsail Admiral KunkkaTheAdmiral's Avatar
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    Yes Aerodyne, I got 4 pieces of 476 in scenarios' maybe I'm just lucky but I checked them right now in my bank to be sure of it :P

    There are called "Of the undertow" and stuff but provide nice stats and are pretty useful for 10 minutes of work at max.
    "Why do we fight? To protect home and family, to preserve balance and bring harmony. For my kind the true question is, what is worth fighting for?"

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    Really sick of seeing this argument. The fact is, if you don't do dailies to unlock valor gear, you get gear locked and your character progression comes to a grinding halt.

    Let's take dungeons for example. The highest ilvl you can obtain off dungeons is 463. Then, you're left to grind LFR MSV for *months* (unless the rng gods just lay a golden brick on you) to reach 470 to queue for the remaining LFR raids.

    So, as a result, you're looking at grinding for PvP gear and/or spending 20-35k (sever prices may vary) for BoE pieces to fill in the slots you need as just acquiring the Sha boots and Klaxxi neck aren't going to cut it.

    Blizzard acknowledged this because the gear bottleneck must be an obvious eyesore from their overall player participation data.
    You might be sick of seeing that argument but in reality it's a good argument and yours is not. That's not a grinding halt. There are tons of things to do for character progression some of which you mentioned yourself.

    You choose to not do certain things in the game and then you complain you don't have character progression and then you say those things are mandatory. How can anyone believe in their own bullshit like that?

    Seriously in terms of "progressing your character" dailies are mandatory. You don't have to do them, true, but what else are you going to do when you log in? Other than LFR there's nothing to do that makes your character more powerful. That's the problem. For people that hate daily quests (and I can totally see why), it is a real problem.
    They gave LFR for people who don't have time to schedule raids with a guild. And now you are complaining you got nothing to do? Maybe start raiding with a guild then?

    I didn't know character progression meant you always get more powerful.

    How can anyone still complain about farming reputations almost half a year after release anyway? It took me just a few weeks doing dailies every single day to get access to all the valor gear (and in that timeframe it is impossible to even gain that much valor to buy all those items). It's not like it is THAT much work if you REALLY want the rewards.
    Last edited by Gilian; 2013-03-01 at 10:08 AM.

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