Like they've got they priorities screwed up. I don't understand what's wrong if people want instanced content and don't care about going out into the world? Why do they feel the need to prod us out into the open world? Furthermore why do they think RNG is such a good thing? I mean they've got this obsession with it like you wouldn't believe. Like instead of dictating what the game is and isn't about why not just a que from the players. If they liked running instance content then let them run instanced content for gear. If they like valor gear as an alternative path then let them have it. I just don't get it. This expansion feels like such a regression in so many ways. As someone who really has been around since vanilla it's kinda disconcerting to see them try and take the game back in time. It doesn't work like that.
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-03 at 11:21 PM.
Now you kinda can, but who cares about MSV LFR now in almost 5.2?
In 5.2 LFR requires 486 ilvl afaik. You can't get that even from 5.0 LFR. You will have to buy old VP epics. After grinding Rep. Of 5.0 content. So even if you were lucky and didn't do any dailes and managed to farm LFR - even in full LFR gear of 483ilvl, you won't be able to run LFR in 5.2 - UNLESS you did dailies - or upgrade at-least 6 pieces to 491 before 5.2. That's 9000 VP.
Then people said they have nothing to do - they didn't mean - "we want to get out of cities" - they said "we want new content".
Last edited by Elim Garak; 2013-03-03 at 11:30 PM.
---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 11:31 PM ----------
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-03 at 11:33 PM.
If you want to be an effective raider you're doing these dailies, no questions asked.
If you don't, you're a casual player. No shame in it, but it's just how it seems to be shaping out to be.
There's a content to do in the world that people want to do - Pet Battles - takes you into the world to hunt for pets, it makes sense, doesn't feel forced and all that - perfect thing. But there's a catch. I don't have fucking TIME to get to it.
---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 11:45 PM ----------
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-03 at 11:49 PM.
Most of the concerns presented ultimately boil down to wanting more accessible gear. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
What's wrong is the approach, raised burning pitchforks and threatening to jump off cliffs if players don't get what they want. Hollow arguments that the game is dying (arguments we've seen every day since... ever), with simply anecdotal evidence. The game has been losing subs for three years, this is not a problem exclusive with the current system. I won't deny that some players felt that they were losing the race, but it's hard to take anyone seriously while they're championing it as the lead cause for the declining, and screaming THE GAME IS BROKEN! THE GAME IS BROKEN!.
Once again, having concerns with players trying to catch up with the rest of the server is far more tied to Valor than anything else, and that has always been the case. Gating rewards behind reputation isn't nearly as big of a deal; players who are contingent upon those rewards are still tied to 1k Valor a week, and they can't catch up any faster than that. I've already demonstrated there's a 30 week timeframe in which to hit revered for all reputations. That point has barely just passed.
This problem was only absent throughout Cataclysm where, upon a content patch, prior content became completely irrelevant. I stopped playing because I had nothing to do.
Additionally, being 'forced' to grind reputation to cap via tabard within the first week is somehow better? You can find time to run dozens of dungeons per reputation, but can't provide for time to run twenty minutes worth of dailies? And you're still held back a valor limit; you're not catching up any faster. I really don't understand the solution here. They're welcome to implement it, I'm not here to reject any alternatives, but it solves absolutely none of the problems that exist. At the end of each week, I'll be just as far along to gearing up as you will.
Some of us enjoy having people out in the world. Some of us like having an incentive to leave major cities, and not having to spend our entire playtime in the same damn dungeons. Unfortunately, we see a side effect of community feeling somehow obligated to comply with an allegedly "mandatory" part of the game.
I have no reservations with expanding our options. I do have a problem with every chicken little on this forum. It's not nearly as big of a problem as the outcry would suggest, and that's what is frustrating.
I was never "forced" to grind reputation crap with tabards? You know why? It was just an additional reward to the activity I was doing anyway. You'll notice I also included valor gains (should also increase the cap) so that I am indeed much further along the cap then you who has "chosen" to go slow. Feel free to continue going slow and not feel forced at all...
You may not think it's a big problem but that's okay because it doesn't affect you. It's quite common for people in the first world to not consciously consider 3rd world poverty a problem when it doesn't affect them. You don't think it's a big problem BECAUSE it doesn't bother you and furthemore from what I can tell you enjoy the system so I'm not surprised you don't think it's a big problem. For those it does effect it clearly is a big problem. In your case the solution is very simple. Don't argue with the chicken littles. You've already dismissed their concerns as exaggerated, so you can and should remain content in the certainty that it's really not a big deal.
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-04 at 12:11 AM.
I've participated in the rest of that content, alongside running dailies, doing dungeons, running LFR, and jumping into raids. I haven't completed every achievement because I don't have the time, nor interest, to keep up with current content and maintain my achievement count. I can't realistically participate in every possible aspect of the game. And that's okay.
Answer me this question: Would you bother playing this game if there was no gear? This entire argument is surrounded by the fact that you want better gear, with less effort. You can run at me with hypothetical situations and by attacking my character / experience, but it doesn't change anything. Gear is the foundation of this game. If it wasn't we wouldn't be having this discussion.
And LOL REALLY? 3rd world analogy? It's a God. Damn. Videogame. Come at me with something more compelling than "you clearly don't understand" and "well have you done EVERYTHING?"
You're looking for solutions to problems that have existed eternally, and blaming dailies for it. I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.
Last edited by Bashkar; 2013-03-04 at 12:16 AM.
Well then you really ought to stop saying that theirs a bunch of players who don't want to play the game. No YOU didn't want to play the game. You had all sorts of things to do but without progression behind it you chose not to. CHOSE. Unless your gonna tell me that's really a non-choice? So what happens is because you CHOSE to be bored (when you could have very well gone as slow as you liked or done any number of other things in the world of warcraft but again CHOSE not to) I have little choice in that the developers catered to you and your CHOICE. I don't expect you to realistically participate in everything but when your bored I would expect that you would find something to do in the game you love and do expect you to not come onto forums and tell others that they just don't want to play the game when the reality is you very much don't want to either unless your given some massive gates in your way to slow your apparent inability to control yourself.
Really what I see is alot of excuses about why your bored and no self awareness to say I'm the problem. In fact if I went back in time and we had this conversation about cataclysm I would probably argue to you it's not that bad. I'm not sure you'd accept it then so I'm not sure why I should accept it now?
---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 12:22 AM ----------
The goal here is to get as much gear with as little effort as possible by adding multiple rewards to the same medium. That's the request: to effectively remove an entire portion of the game by combining it with another so we don't actually have to play it. Twisting my words doesn't change that.
Having both isn't an option, because then it'd be "mandatory" to do both in order to be optimal, making this a zero sum exercise.
We lost all sense of gear progression through cataclysm, and it was dull and boring for many of us. Just as many people likely fled the game because they couldn't stand running Zul'Aman for the two hundredth time.
Last edited by Bashkar; 2013-03-04 at 12:28 AM.
You lost all sense of gear progression in cataclysm because YOU can't control yourself. It's not clear to me we got a sense of gear progression back, or if that's even a worthy goal but alright feel free to imagine yourself up as much progression as you like. Go as slow as you like. Buy as little or as much valor gear as you like. All of that is REAL choice. Putting overtly compelling reward behind one aspect of the game is in reality a non choice.
Dailies were already adding multiple rewards to the same medium effectively getting as much gear as you could with as little effort. Hell that's the problem to much reward in one medium made it to compelling. Even if that weren't true guess what's getting rep back in 5.2? Back to the raids where it belongs. Baby steps back to tabards.
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-04 at 12:43 AM.
There are about 9000 Valor worth of rewards between just the Klaxxi and Golden Lotus.
It takes Nine days to get Klaxxi to hit revered. Fourteen? I believe for Golden Lotus. 23 days for ~9000 Valor. You have 4000 valor by the end of that time period. You have five weeks before the rest of those rewards matter.
You can go as fast, or as slow, as you want. Grinding everything out in a single day doesn't change anything, which is where I lose all faith in your suggestion. Mathematically it makes no sense, and represents itself as nothing more than laziness and entitlement. Why do you have to have all the reputations immediately? Why is it such a big deal to allocate twenty minutes of your day to doing a few quests?
And where did I imply that? I paced myself like I always do, because I don't have time to spend several hours each day on content. Somehow through my horrible existence of working full time, I manage. I did enough dungeons to keep myself valor capped each week, championed the pertinent tabards, ran a few dailies, raided, etc. I didn't need everything right away. The time comes, though, where passively acquiring rewards results in an absence of content. Instead of weaving in daily quests and running around the world into my playtime, I ran Zul'Gurub/Zul'Aman yet again.You lost all sense of gear progression in cataclysm because YOU can't control yourself. It's not clear to me we got a sense of gear progression back, or if that's even a worthy goal but alright feel free to imagine yourself up as much progression as you like. Go as slow as you like. Buy as little or as much valor gear as you like. All of that is REAL choice. Putting overtly compelling reward behind one aspect of the game is in reality a non choice.
I'm becoming wary of my posts being subject to a point I'm not suggesting. I'm not adverse to other options, let me drill that into your head for the fifth time. The new additions in 5.2 are welcomed, they'll help me with future alts. I just don't understand the uproar, and the desire for something that actually takes away from the game
Last edited by Bashkar; 2013-03-04 at 12:48 AM.
I can't go as slow as I want because I can't go ZERO. Understand? If I want to do ZERO dailies but I still want the activities I like to do to reward me with GEAR equal to what dailies offer. I also can't go at 100 because well you can only daily once a day and if I've got saturday off that's all i can do once a day. Dungeons were far better for this and also allowed for in the middle to. That was REAL choice mind you but none of you could exercise it as such.
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-04 at 12:51 AM.
Don't patronize me on my stance. They are hardly "precious," but they do add something to the game. There are always other options available. Refusing to do other parts of the game is your prerogative, and it's perfectly feasible to progress your character doing so. It's ultimately going to be more rewarding if you use all tools available to you, though.
Last edited by Bashkar; 2013-03-04 at 12:55 AM.
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-04 at 12:56 AM.
Let's get our bearings in this discussion. If Blizzard tmmrw said we're bringing back the cataclysm model. Tabards, fast valor in dungeons, higher valor cap and made this all exclusive to dungeons (which is some thing was sorta tried in pvp and people complained about being forced to do conquest battles for taht extra bit on the cap) but also said for you guys who like the slower pace of things you can have your dailies, lower valor cap and slower gains in general. Would you feel forced to do one over the other?
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-04 at 01:12 AM.