Page 3 of 32 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
13
... LastLast
  1. #41
    I love it when people complain about HAVING to do stuff to get into raids. That they don't like the feeling that dailies are mandatory to be able to get into a raid. These dailies aren't mandatory... I remember having to farm Fire resist gear for MC and BWL. I remember Farming Nature Resist Gear for AQ40, SSC, and shadow resist gear for BT... and you complain about doing some Golden Lotus dailies... You don't know what a mandatory requirement to raid is until you had . What's even funnier is that some of these complainers are the same ones pining for the good old days of Vanilla and BC who are the ones complaining about dailies.
    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    Those damn liberal colleges! Can you believe they brainwash people into thinking murder is wrong! And don't get me started with all that critical thinking bullshit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells
    You don't get to troll, lie, and treat government like a game for your own purposes and then expect to be treated like a statesmen. Fuck that.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Feh, bunch of whiners.

    Something "feeling" some way and "being" some way are two different things. Dailies obviously weren't a definitive state of "too mandatory," I did them all at my own leisure and finished them all up quite a while ago.

    A bunch of people whined that THEY "Felt" too required, and so Blizzard is relating that dailies "felt" too required to those people. Just like how some people "felt" cataclysm heroics were too difficult, when they obviously were not.


    Sadly, blizzard can't really do any "alternate" means of progression because people will instantly assume that the easiest, quickest way is the only "offered" way and is therefore mandatory. Even if they actually DO offer alternate means.

    You could go straight from heroic dungeons into normal raids, as they were tuned for but... NOPE... gotta have epics to get those epics. Skill/attempts take effort and time, dailies just take time.

    You could grind gold to buy crafted items but NOPE... gold takes effort and time to make, dailies just take time.

    You could do LFR but NOPE... gear isn't "as good" as rep gear, LFR takes time and luck, and dailies just take time.


    A sad state people have skewed this game into being.
    Indeed. :S

  3. #43
    I loved when MoP started and it was obvious that they wanted to make the world a part of the game again, even after hitting 90.
    After some valor items had been placed in Honored in beta, it was perfect. Took a few days to unlock some new items, and with the VP weekly cap there was no rush.
    But it was worrying how spoiled players had become after a year of 4.3, and that's no real surprise either. Casual players, such as myself, could finish their weekly progression by doing 7 goddamn dungeons and a LFR.

    "Choice", they called it.
    So naturally it was a slap in the face when MoP slowed such things down. Cataclysm stands as a strong testament to what happens when you allow players to cap with zero effort. No, I'm not calling dailies a challenging effort, but it engages us in Pandaria. At first it's just GL and Klaxxi since they figured letting us unlock all factions at once would be a bit overkill.

    But as I expected, many players started feeling like they had to do dailies every day in order to stay ahead, and I just cannot understand why.
    Can someone please explain to me how you had to do dailies every day, even though you didn't want to, when we're capped at 1000 valor per week?

    Seems like no one can, and yet there was enough of these burnout-crazy players to force Blizzard to change their minds. Quite sad.
    Even with commendation, it was still an issue. Just... why.

    Oh well. As long as they don't make 5.0 valor items useless they'll be able to keep some players in Pandaria. It's obvious they aren't keen on the thought of ever going back to LK/Cata style of making every tier allow you to catch up ridiculously fast.
    Nyoro~n? (´・ω・`)
    5:2 diet? Pft!

    One year, 62kg/136lb lost. Only a little bit left...

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    EU-Garrosh
    Posts
    2,828
    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    I noticed that they are finally acknowledging that dailies are too forced.

    "Mists of Pandaria set out to provide lots of things for you to do, but daily quests ended up feeling more mandatory than they wanted. The Patch 5.2 daily quests feel less mandatory."

    Off main page.

    It's sad and frustrating though because it took months of people bitching and complaining and they just defended it by saying 'you don't have to do dailies'. Yes you did because it's the only way to spend the damn JP/VP. Unreal. They didn't lose me personally, but I know a lot of players just in my guild/on my server who quit over the bullshit reputation grinds.
    Notice that they said "dailies ended up FEELING mandatory", not that they WERE mandatory. One of our MTs has never unlocked Shado-Pan or August Celestials dailies, nor has he done any Shieldwall quests. He hates dailies and yet he's geared, raiding successfully and not a hindrance in regards to progress.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    Notice that they said "dailies ended up FEELING mandatory", not that they WERE mandatory. One of our MTs has never unlocked Shado-Pan or August Celestials dailies, nor has he done any Shieldwall quests. He hates dailies and yet he's geared, raiding successfully and not a hindrance in regards to progress.
    To these players, feeling and being mandatory are apparently the same thing.
    Even though you could do dailies max 3 times per week and still be unable to buy items at the same rate you unlock them due to the VP cap.
    Even though you could easily start in MSV without doing a single daily.

    I genuinely hope that Blizzard has some confidence left in having factions in the world a (side) part of progression, and use it again in the next expansion in 6.0. I do NOT want another 4.3 borefest a la World of Queuecraft

    The thing is, as has been stated many times in these discussions, players choose the easiest route. Some advocated having some items buyable for valor without any faction tied to it, but if that were enough to replace the world factions, then those are unnecessary and forgotten by most.

    I guess I'm the devil's advocate. I think WoW needs good incentatives to leave the cities, even though dailies aren't particularly fun the n'th time. But Blizzard still made 5.0 raids to be completely doable without a single valor item. They managed to make dailies a choice, but never making them required for anything.

    And still they eventually caved in to those who probably capped all factions within 3 weeks of release and then had several months of VP caps before they could buy all items that they probably didn't need anymore assuming they raided
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2013-03-01 at 10:34 AM.
    Nyoro~n? (´・ω・`)
    5:2 diet? Pft!

    One year, 62kg/136lb lost. Only a little bit left...

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    I noticed that they are finally acknowledging that dailies are too forced.

    "Mists of Pandaria set out to provide lots of things for you to do, but daily quests ended up feeling more mandatory than they wanted. The Patch 5.2 daily quests feel less mandatory."

    Off main page.

    It's sad and frustrating though because it took months of people bitching and complaining and they just defended it by saying 'you don't have to do dailies'. Yes you did because it's the only way to spend the damn JP/VP. Unreal. They didn't lose me personally, but I know a lot of players just in my guild/on my server who quit over the bullshit reputation grinds.

    I'm continually shocked how slow Bliz is to realise stuff like this. For supposedly professional and experienced game designers, they seam very slow on the uptake.

    Take monk no auto attack. it too about 2mins for us (my guild) to work out that would not work and why....but it took months for bliz to come to the same conclusion after they made such a big deal about it.

    Same wiht dailies, as soon as we heard VP gear was tied to rep and rep was only dailies, the inevitable conclusion was drawn.....and yet Bliz seam to have not realised it without hindsight to aid them.

    I really think they need to shake up their dev team, get some new blood in there, break up group think and confirmation bias, and get some innovation from a new perspective.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    Really sick of seeing this argument. The fact is, if you don't do dailies to unlock valor gear, you get gear locked and your character progression comes to a grinding halt.
    Thats not a fact. Far from it, it is, in fact, BS.
    While Diogenes was relaxing in the sunlight in the morning, Alexander, thrilled to meet the famous philosopher, asked if there was any favour he might do for him. Diogenes replied, "Yes, stand out of my sunlight". Alexander then declared, "If I were not Alexander, then I should wish to be Diogenes", to which Diogenes replied, "If I were not Diogenes, I should also wish to be Diogenes."

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihuitl View Post
    I'm continually shocked how slow Bliz is to realise stuff like this. For supposedly professional and experienced game designers, they seam very slow on the uptake.

    Take monk no auto attack. it too about 2mins for us (my guild) to work out that would not work and why....but it took months for bliz to come to the same conclusion after they made such a big deal about it.

    Same wiht dailies, as soon as we heard VP gear was tied to rep and rep was only dailies, the inevitable conclusion was drawn.....and yet Bliz seam to have not realised it without hindsight to aid them.

    I really think they need to shake up their dev team, get some new blood in there, break up group think and confirmation bias, and get some innovation from a new perspective.
    They wanted to experiment with a new class mechanic unlike anything done before it, but eventually came to the conclusion that it didn't work. And it didn't take months, more like a week or two after beta opened

    Most players are apparently fine with doing a set of dailies now and then, they realize that with the VP cap there was no rush. Why didn't you? Why is it a bad thing that something like valor items, that you don't really need to progress in 5.0 raids, are locked behind a task that makes you leave the cities?

    Hell, I can GUARANTEE everyone here, that if MoP continued the bullshit of capping valor in a day from a city with a quartermaster, the sub loss would be a lot, lot worse.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2013-03-01 at 10:43 AM.
    Nyoro~n? (´・ω・`)
    5:2 diet? Pft!

    One year, 62kg/136lb lost. Only a little bit left...

  9. #49
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Cuthroat Alley, Stormwind
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    Really sick of seeing this argument. The fact is, if you don't do dailies to unlock valor gear, you get gear locked and your character progression comes to a grinding halt.

    Let's take dungeons for example. The highest ilvl you can obtain off dungeons is 463. Then, you're left to grind LFR MSV for *months* (unless the rng gods just lay a golden brick on you) to reach 470 to queue for the remaining LFR raids.

    So, as a result, you're looking at grinding for PvP gear and/or spending 20-35k (sever prices may vary) for BoE pieces to fill in the slots you need as just acquiring the Sha boots and Klaxxi neck aren't going to cut it.

    Blizzard acknowledged this because the gear bottleneck must be an obvious eyesore from their overall player participation data.
    I got into the upper LFR on my Warrior in all blues except for Sha quest boots. Last time I did math, having all of the dungeon blues + JP upgrades gives you an average ilvl of 471. Raiding MV on reg also only takes an ilvl of 463 or so once you shiny up your gear with gems/chants and take the time to be skilled at your class and raid mechanics.
    Naftc, "Hunters are the cheapest class in game and when played right are more deadly than a train plowing through a field of bunnies covered in napalm"

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    They wanted to experiment with a new class mechanic unlike anything done before it, but eventually came to the conclusion that it didn't work. And it didn't take months, more like a week or two after beta opened

    Most players are apparently fine with doing a set of dailies now and then, they realize that with the VP cap there was no rush. Why didn't you? Why is it a bad thing that something like valor items, that you don't really need to progress in 5.0 raids, are locked behind a task that makes you leave the cities?

    Hell, I can GUARANTEE everyone here, that if MoP continued the bullshit of capping valor in a day from a city with a quartermaster, the sub loss would be a lot, lot worse.


    The monk thing would not work for the simple reason that autoattacks for melee (and hunters) and cast times for ranged act as a balancing effect on dps over time and help control it. If you take a class with no auto attack it still needs to do the same dps over time as other specs to be competitive, but you have to bake all that dps into on use abilities, meaning the burst potential is massively higher, esp when you are combining it with an "on demand deplete" resource like chi. No auto attack in wow woudl have meant massive burst in pvp, and if you toned that down, it woudl have meant sub-par dps in pve.
    Its a simple fundamental principle that should have been obvious from the start to Bliz. You cant shoe horn in a no-auto attack class into a game dominated by auto attack/cast time classes and expect it to be balanced.

    -
    As for your VP/Rep comments, thats possibly the most blatant straw man arguement I've ever seen. No one suggested that capping VP in a day way good. but if you have read any arguements on it you would know the most common request is a daily/weekly cap at the same level as you can get from dailies, but for players to be allowed to get it how they want, be that running dailies, instances, scenarios, grinding, turn ins, possibly even things like crafting items to turn in or fishing stuff up or archaeology discoveries.....the VP/rep system could have been massively expanded in MoP, but instead it was narrowed in focus to only dailies, and you had to do them to spend your VPs due to rep gates.

    I've not seen many arguements for one day rep capping (I assume you meant rep as you can cap VP in a day right now anyway), just that people wanted more options than just running dailies.

    Bliz said just running 5mans was bad in cata, but made just runing dailies the focus in mop...I fail to see how that was a solution to the problem of one type of content being too rewarding compared to others, it just shifted it to dailies instead of instances, it did not solve the issue.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    Really sick of seeing this argument. The fact is, if you don't do dailies to unlock valor gear, you get gear locked and your character progression comes to a grinding halt.

    Let's take dungeons for example. The highest ilvl you can obtain off dungeons is 463. Then, you're left to grind LFR MSV for *months* (unless the rng gods just lay a golden brick on you) to reach 470 to queue for the remaining LFR raids.

    So, as a result, you're looking at grinding for PvP gear and/or spending 20-35k (sever prices may vary) for BoE pieces to fill in the slots you need as just acquiring the Sha boots and Klaxxi neck aren't going to cut it.

    Blizzard acknowledged this because the gear bottleneck must be an obvious eyesore from their overall player participation data.
    They are not mandatory.Did 0 dailys on my paladin and now in 476 ilvl.If you need ilvl just cap conq and some free ilvl.

  12. #52
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    A little south of sanity
    Posts
    2,220
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenNinja View Post
    I see only 2 problems with the many dailies:
    They are mandatory ONLY if these two things are true:
    - you are a progression raider and you need the Elder Charms of Good Fortune for bonus rolls
    - you are a LFR raider and there's a tough situation for you waiting between ilvl 460 and ilvl 470. For MSV LFR, you only need ilvl 460 which you get through 5man heroics. But for the other two LFR raids, you need ilvl 470, which is tough to reach when all you do is LFR, so in this case you're actually forced to do dailies to get more ilvl.

    There could be other solutions to these two problems other than shortening the amount of dailies, for example:
    - you gain Elder Charms through something different, or reduce the number of Lesser Charms needed by a lot
    - MSV LFR ilvl requirements lowered and bosses nerfed appropriately (by 5%?)
    - 1x 100% guaranteed item loot for 1 LFR run per week

    But anyway, after seeing so many players complain, whether they're right or not, sometimes you have to give in to what the majority thinks is right...
    The drawback you have from lowering the amount of dailies available is that there's effectively less to do in WoW. And we know from Cataclysm that if there's nothing to do out there besides raiding or PvP, players also complain.
    Even the Elder Charms aren't mandatory, mandatory means you can't do something without something else..........raiders have been raiding for many years without extra rolls.

  13. #53
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Out and about
    Posts
    451
    I farmed up my 463 gear, upgraded some pieces to 471, picked up a three crafted epics, and was easily 470 the second week after hitting 90 on my alt. I had enough Valor to buy the Klaxxi neck after those two weeks. So yeah, you don't need to do dailies to get into the 2nd half. My one complaint would be the upcoming removal of the upgrade system, as that makes up for the no Valor gear system. They should leave gear upgrades in with a restriction to not allow the new tier, if anything. Otherwise I can see the need to get that Valor gear to expedite to the 480 ilevel.

  14. #54
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    13,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Sad they "acknowledge" this because it isn't true. They aren't mandatory at all. You don't need to spend the VP or JP and there are ways to unlocking some factions rep item without doing dailies.
    They don't say that they are mandatory, they say it felt like that to people.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    Really sick of seeing this argument. The fact is, if you don't do dailies to unlock valor gear, you get gear locked and your character progression comes to a grinding halt.

    Let's take dungeons for example. The highest ilvl you can obtain off dungeons is 463. Then, you're left to grind LFR MSV for *months* (unless the rng gods just lay a golden brick on you) to reach 470 to queue for the remaining LFR raids.

    So, as a result, you're looking at grinding for PvP gear and/or spending 20-35k (sever prices may vary) for BoE pieces to fill in the slots you need as just acquiring the Sha boots and Klaxxi neck aren't going to cut it.

    Blizzard acknowledged this because the gear bottleneck must be an obvious eyesore from their overall player participation data.
    Absolutely true, having ilvl restrictions forced people to do dailies "IF" they ever wanted the gear necessary to meet requirements of raiding, whether is was rf or normal; so in this regard they were necessary which felt a heck of alot like manditory.
    Last edited by saucywench; 2013-03-01 at 05:07 PM.

  16. #56
    Scarab Lord Humbugged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    A state of madness
    Posts
    4,093
    I think, and I know Blizzard/Everyone HATES when people compare the two, but if WoW integrated Skyrim's radiant-style daily quest (I.E. random item placed in random location) dailies wouldn't feel like such a bore. Open the world to exploration, meet people along the way doing the same quest, its something an MMO could EASILY pull off, the "two different genres" argument just doesn't work. Daily quests lose their appeal doing them for a week because we have to go to the same place, see the same dialogue, save the same damsel in distress.. its like my character isn't progressing but rather stuck in a time loop until exalted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
    If it's too hard, go to bed and forget about it.

    - Manakin.

  17. #57
    I think everyone who is complaining about dailies being "mandatory" should be forced to play on a TBC server and they can't leave until they kill Illidan.
    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
    I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Naidia View Post
    So much false. Highest ilvl you can get from a heroic is 476. Get your Klaxxi neck, Sha boots, maybe 1-2 crafted items that you can buy the fucking mats for that cost 200-500g a piece. Get them crafted, tip w/e, or don't. And you're good to go, if you've been doing your heroics. You don't need dailies to get honored with Klaxxi so it's GG. It's basically the same as when LFR was launched, thanks to patch 5.1
    Highest ilvl you CAN get...
    99% of players will never see one of those epics

    Also, best crafted items you can get for 500g on my server are ilvl 450, they wont get you anywhere

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 06:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Even the Elder Charms aren't mandatory, mandatory means you can't do something without something else..........raiders have been raiding for many years without extra rolls.
    Yes, but now everybody else has extra rolls, so you need them if you dont want to fall behind.
    You cannot trust, nor take seriously, an adult male without facial hair.Boys have no facial hair and boys are not men.
    ╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  19. #59
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Hitbox & Youtube
    Posts
    19,739
    Four (soon five) gear factions you have to farm each day. Plus two profession factions, and the serpent riders. Add to that your heroics, lfr, and scenarios...

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Naidia View Post
    So much false. Highest ilvl you can get from a heroic is 476. Get your Klaxxi neck, Sha boots, maybe 1-2 crafted items that you can buy the fucking mats for that cost 200-500g a piece. Get them crafted, tip w/e, or don't. And you're good to go, if you've been doing your heroics. You don't need dailies to get honored with Klaxxi so it's GG. It's basically the same as when LFR was launched, thanks to patch 5.1
    So much BS in this post it's unbelievable. To get Klaxxi neck and other factions rewards you have to get those to exalted. Crafted items cost a hell of a lot more than 200-500g even with the materials and even though heroics CAN drop SOME 476 items I have so far not seen a single one.

    It's not just the gear that makes dailys mandatory. Serpent Riding, enchant recipes, tailoring recipes and other stuff often being gated behind TWO reputations makes it mandatory if you actually want to do anything with your professions whatsoever.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •