Blizz: Daily Quests felt 'Mandatory'

[Leonard McCoy]

You claim I'm saying that dailies ARE mandatory when it only in fact FEELS mandatory?

Ok let me point a few things out.

If you are a casual person who only does LFR. This is what your progression looks like.

You hit 90. Maybe you do your Sha boots, a few dungeons, let's say you average out to a 430 ilevel. After a few more dungeons you smoothly get into the MSV LFR. Here is where it begins to become mandatory.

Most people will get 463 ilevel very quickly, but you need 470 to run the HoF and Terrace LFRs.

What are your options if you decided not to do dailies/reputations:

1. Upgrade every slot of 463 heroic items to 471 @ 1500 JP each. You get 30 Justice per scenario and I think 50 per dungeon. Do the math
2. You can get lucky as fuck in LFR. You know damn well all of the people who are experiencing the RNG wall. Myself included. And even if you get a few pieces, it still won't give you a massive 10 point bump to your ilevel.
3. Spend 30,000g (depending on server) for your chest and glove items that are crafted. You can't make them yourself because, infact, the patterns are behind the gauntlet of dailies.
4. I heard scenarios drop epics. I only ever saw 1 in game on a random guy. Even worse RNG wise than LFR gear.

Also, why would they allow a dungeon runner/scenario runner to earn VP/JP if they can't spend it without doing a different sort of content = daily questing. That's similar to putting Honor and Conquest gear behind reputation vendors. Terrible idea.

So ok maybe they AREN'T mandatory. But if you don't do them you hit a brick progression wall where you will need MONTHS of grinding JP to upgrade, INSANE RNG luck or a fucking carry through a PUG, and PUGs usually ask for normal experience + already good gear to make up for the lack of coordination. Truth is, Blizzard doesn't make them mandatory at all, but they make all of the other paths so much more brutal that you don't have a legitimate choice.

Can't believe there are people who are enforcing their rhetoric that it just FEELS mandatory. When someone says they are giving you 3 options, but they make two of them incredibly ridiculous and painful.... sure I guess it only FEELS mandatory that you take the other one.... give me a fucking break.

I agree. It's very sneaky what they've done. And what's worse is that they hid behind part of the community with this whole mandatory or not debate which really isn't the point. The alternatives fucking suck. Make the alternatives better. I would run my sha/lfr ques for the week and then I'd be done. Unless I swallowed it up and did dailies. After awhile I just said fuck it. I would spend more time alt tabbing in forums than actually playing the game because it felt like I was getting nowhere and having to do something I didn't like to do and still not going anywhere. The group of friends I used to roll in tbc/wotlk/cata dungeons with broke apart because well their was enough reward in those dungeons and none of us liked dailies so that fell apart. Couldn't get enough people to raid, so that fell apart. In the end the entire thing just fell apart. The group of players I used to have to play with and we really liked playing with each other would run dungeons together and get all kinds of rewards and even hard dungeons we did well in. Not so much in mists because it's all dailies and none of us like dailies. It was kinda sad and a bummer. I still keep in touch with them though. Hopefully we get it back together for 5.2.

But yea people will keep hiding behind this whole mandatory or not thing because it's only defense they can offer for the shitty change and the way it was handled. Now the developers turn around say it sucks and it only took them 6 months or so? PROGRESS!

[Alvito]

I don't know what to tell you if you think this was worse than past gating. You're probably so used to quick valor epics and easy LFR drops that the idea of playing in vanilla or TBC when it was much much harder to gear up in epics is hard to picture.

Having to do a Heroic Shattered Halls speed run in crap gear was gating. Getting ilvl 470 is a bit of a joke in comparison.

Not that I particularly enjoyed the casual-unfriendliness of vanilla/TBC. But all this "OMG, this is the worst it's ever been" crying is silly.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 10:14 AM ----------



Effectively impossible? Please. There are threads on this very forum on how to hit 470 without dailies. And many of those threads were written before 5.1.

Please stop with the hyperbole. "Effectively impossible". Lol.

BC stuff was never an issue for me. I did luck out though I was raiding BT no more then a month and a half after I hit 70 on my first toon. Many things went my way for that to happen seeing how I was new to the game and looking back now fairly bad. I was attuned for SSC/TK and Hyjal and working on BT when they removed the need and added the titles.

[Deleted]

Took them long enough.

[Ichifails]

I noticed that they are finally acknowledging that dailies are too forced.

"Mists of Pandaria set out to provide lots of things for you to do, but daily quests ended up feeling more mandatory than they wanted. The Patch 5.2 daily quests feel less mandatory."

Off main page.

It's sad and frustrating though because it took months of people bitching and complaining and they just defended it by saying 'you don't have to do dailies'. Yes you did because it's the only way to spend the damn JP/VP. Unreal. They didn't lose me personally, but I know a lot of players just in my guild/on my server who quit over the bullshit reputation grinds.

If I could get top 9/16 HC without getting the reps I'm pretty sure everyone could. Even better progress was a reality without any kind of bloody rep.
The real situation here is: "Holy shit these people are stupid as fuck. We already made the system for 5.2 rep, just say that they were right so they will shut up"
But that also made acti-blizzard probably realise: "Holy shit anything optional that we add these morons will take it as mandatory" so meh... There's a real chance that them acknowledging will do more harm.

[ro9ue]

If I could get top 9/16 HC without getting the reps I'm pretty sure everyone could. Even better progress was a reality without any kind of bloody rep.
The real situation here is: "Holy shit these people are stupid as fuck. We already made the system for 5.2 rep, just say that they were right so they will shut up"
But that also made acti-blizzard probably realise: "Holy shit anything optional that we add these morons will take it as mandatory" so meh... There's a real chance that them acknowledging will do more harm.

Not talking about heroic people. Read my above comment about the majority of the playerbase. LFR people. Not sure why you are calling the casuals stupid or morons either. To be frank, that's what people do when their argument lacks balls.

[Azrile]

I noticed that they are finally acknowledging that dailies are too forced.

"Mists of Pandaria set out to provide lots of things for you to do, but daily quests ended up feeling more mandatory than they wanted. The Patch 5.2 daily quests feel less mandatory."

Off main page.

It's sad and frustrating though because it took months of people bitching and complaining and they just defended it by saying 'you don't have to do dailies'. Yes you did because it's the only way to spend the damn JP/VP. Unreal. They didn't lose me personally, but I know a lot of players just in my guild/on my server who quit over the bullshit reputation grinds.

Yep, the same people who can read that statement and misunderstand it are the same people who thought dailies were mandatory.

notice he said ´felt´.. not that they were mandatory. A lot of people were too dumb to do the math and did way more dailies than they needed to do.. to them it FELT mandatory, even though they weren´t.

[Leonard McCoy]

If I could get top 9/16 HC without getting the reps I'm pretty sure everyone could. Even better progress was a reality without any kind of bloody rep.
The real situation here is: "Holy shit these people are stupid as fuck. We already made the system for 5.2 rep, just say that they were right so they will shut up"
But that also made acti-blizzard probably realise: "Holy shit anything optional that we add these morons will take it as mandatory" so meh... There's a real chance that them acknowledging will do more harm.

LOL You must be kidding right? Like how bout you reverse that.

The real situation here is:

If optional content is too richly rewarding, it ceases to become optional and just becomes the way most players play the game.

-Ghostcralwer himself

For YEARS they've done nothing but remove obstables in players way and remove the "necessary" or "mandatory" things that existed. Like running 10's and 25's. Which got a shared lockout ostensible because it felt mandatory for raiders to have to do both. WELL WHAT HAPPENED? they've been doing nothing but taking shit like that out of the game. That includes things like resistance gear, destruction pots, all kinds of shit that was "mandatory" for farming outside of the raid.

But acti Blizzard has a plan to force feed your more daily quests as content patches so they can't say it's mandatory because to many people would buck and get pissed off.

Daily quests are a fucking failure. This is them back peddling as fast as they can without letting anybody know it. Expect radical changes next expansion. Can't wait.

[Shink]

i only bought 1 item to reach 470

a neck piece, that was unlocked by leveling up (omg), the rest was obtained by the LFD/LFR


1 month >.> including leveling up

[ro9ue]

Yep, the same people who can read that statement and misunderstand it are the same people who thought dailies were mandatory.

notice he said ´felt´.. not that they were mandatory. A lot of people were too dumb to do the math and did way more dailies than they needed to do.. to them it FELT mandatory, even though they weren´t.

Read my comment #246 for the dismantling of your argument.

[Deleted]

i dont see a whole lot of ppl mentioning the damn charms. if u want 3 more chances of getting that sweet epic u have been waiting for each week. then you have to farm dailys. even when u hit exalted with everything. you still have to continue farming those charms.

[Azrile]

Good to do what? Lfr? With that gear you sure as hell arent getting in a raid or even a pug.

Every boss was cleared the first two weeks, before anyone had enough VP to buy any rep gear. MSV normal was EASILY done in heroic blues. You really are going to stick with your belief that you needed VP gear to raid?

[Leonard McCoy]

Read my comment #246 for the dismantling of your argument.

It's so fucking retarded. They get hung up on the words forced and mandatory but the reality is nothing is forced and mandatory. Nothing ever has been. Were destruction potions necessary in tbc? or nightmare seeds? or running 10s and 25s? NO OF COURSE NOT but NOBODY ever brought that up as a defense for what are shitty systems. Only in mists do you see the rise of the whole hey man it's totally optional crew because Blizzard stands behind this bullshit. I can't believe people let them get away with it. If this were any other company...

[ro9ue]

It's so fucking retarded. They get hung up on the words forced and mandatory but the reality is nothing is forced and mandatory. Nothing ever has been. Were destruction potions necessary in tbc? or nightmare seeds? or running 10s and 25s? NO OF COURSE NOT but NOBODY every brought that up as a defense for what are shitty systems. Only in mists do you see the rise of the whole hey man it's totally optional crew because Blizzard stands behind this bullshit. I can't believe people let them get away with it. If this were any other company...

Agreed. Believe it or not as much as I'm dissing their daily system, I actually like Blizzard, but I'm objective about game design decisions. I fucking HATE when they hide behind failed systems instead of just admitting they fucked up. Then you get all of the Blizzard sheep who just throw out the same rhetoric like puppets.

[Azrile]

I see only 2 problems with the many dailies:
They are mandatory ONLY if these two things are true:
- you are a progression raider and you need the Elder Charms of Good Fortune for bonus rolls
- you are a LFR raider and there's a tough situation for you waiting between ilvl 460 and ilvl 470. For MSV LFR, you only need ilvl 460 which you get through 5man heroics. But for the other two LFR raids, you need ilvl 470, which is tough to reach when all you do is LFR, so in this case you're actually forced to do dailies to get more ilvl.

There could be other solutions to these two problems other than shortening the amount of dailies, for example:
- you gain Elder Charms through something different, or reduce the number of Lesser Charms needed by a lot
- MSV LFR ilvl requirements lowered and bosses nerfed appropriately (by 5%?)
- 1x 100% guaranteed item loot for 1 LFR run per week

But anyway, after seeing so many players complain, whether they're right or not, sometimes you have to give in to what the majority thinks is right...
The drawback you have from lowering the amount of dailies available is that there's effectively less to do in WoW. And we know from Cataclysm that if there's nothing to do out there besides raiding or PvP, players also complain.

I think it is the vocal minority. Very few people in my guild, or really anywhere else but a few forum posts. And if you look at even this thead.. there is the OP and one other person (who posts a lot), and mostly everyone else thinking dailies were fine. It was the same as the official forums.. you had threads with 400 posts... 200 of them happy people, and the other 200 are 5 people complaining.

I have 4 characters who have finished LFR.. 3 of them never did a single daily. But then again, I am good at math, unlike the 2 people in this thread complaining.

[Commander]

If you complete the Klaxxi zone you will be revered with Klaxxi, so you are not valor locked unless you are too stupid to finish the zone.

Once you complete Dread Wastes, you'll barely be at Honored, not Revered. I know this because I did it on 5 toons within one month.

Oh, and I did all their dailies available to me as part of leveling process, too.

[Leonard McCoy]

Once you complete Dread Wastes, you'll barely be at Honored, not Revered. I know this because I did it on 5 toons within one month.

Oh, and I did all their dailies available to me as part of leveling process, too.

That's assuming you did klaxxxi to. I was lvl 90 without hitting dread wastes.

[ro9ue]

I think it is the vocal minority. Very few people in my guild, or really anywhere else but a few forum posts. And if you look at even this thead.. there is the OP and one other person (who posts a lot), and mostly everyone else thinking dailies were fine. It was the same as the official forums.. you had threads with 400 posts... 200 of them happy people, and the other 200 are 5 people complaining.

I have 4 characters who have finished LFR.. 3 of them never did a single daily. But then again, I am good at math, unlike the 2 people in this thread complaining.

Here's my assessment of the situation. Being as I'm the OP you're referring to. The people on MMO-champion are, generally speaking, the ones who spend the most time on WoW. They spend their time on the forums of a community that was built on WoW. I happen to like this community very much so even though I started to become casual, I like talking over things on the forums because I find there are a lot of people who share interesting and respectable viewpoints.

All that being said, the pool of players from the MMO-Champion forums and the WoW forums are Blizzard fans and sometimes that gets in the way of objectivity. There are some players, like myself, who love this game so if I think they made a bad decision, I'll speak out about it. I've been bringing up dailies all the time on their forums and here.

Unfortunately, most players don't care. If they don't like dailies, they just quit. Blizzard spent a lot of time defending their stance on dailies. I think a lot of people quit over it, what was it, 500k, when you are in a quarter with a new expansion and holiday season. I suspect that Blizzard has been watching the drop in subscribers and their NEW public stance on dailies proves my theory to be correct.

I don't know that for certain, but you also don't know your suggested theory for certain. So there we are.

PS. The ones against the daily system count more than 2 in this thread, as opposed to what you're claiming.

[Last Starfighter]

Really sick of seeing this argument. The fact is, if you don't do dailies to unlock valor gear, you get gear locked and your character progression comes to a grinding halt.

Let's take dungeons for example. The highest ilvl you can obtain off dungeons is 463. Then, you're left to grind LFR MSV for *months* (unless the rng gods just lay a golden brick on you) to reach 470 to queue for the remaining LFR raids.

So, as a result, you're looking at grinding for PvP gear and/or spending 20-35k (sever prices may vary) for BoE pieces to fill in the slots you need as just acquiring the Sha boots and Klaxxi neck aren't going to cut it.

Blizzard acknowledged this because the gear bottleneck must be an obvious eyesore from their overall player participation data.

And I'm sick and tired of this argument. Cata entry raids was done in heroic blues. Just like MoP entry raids. The VP gear is not mandatory and you aren't "gear locked". Especially not with LFR around. LFR gives you a whole new progression path. Even if you were to ignore VP gear and LFR gear, you could start out in T14 in your heroic blues. Because that is the progression path. It isn't a bottleneck. Blizzard is just realizing how whiney players are.

[ro9ue]

And I'm sick and tired of this argument. Cata entry raids was done in heroic blues. Just like MoP entry raids. The VP gear is not mandatory and you aren't "gear locked". Especially not with LFR around. LFR gives you a whole new progression path. Even if you were to ignore VP gear and LFR gear, you could start out in T14 in your heroic blues. Because that is the progression path. It isn't a bottleneck. Blizzard is just realizing how whiney players are.

Refer to comment #246 to find out why you're wrong.

[Leonard McCoy]

Well then the developers agree with the minority. Like it's so fucking convenient for you to say it's a minority who's complaining when it's something you don't agree with but clearly it must be a majority who agree with you and the developers are just caving in. LIke if it was a position you supported you'd say it was the majority. It's so disgusting. Clearly the developers recognize the compulsion is to fucking much (6 months later) and this was felt by a majority of players. You don't like it to bad.