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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Psilar View Post
    Need to rework the name then. If I'm getting a "divine" shield, I'm pretty sure "god" can do things - he can do them without speaking.

    I think you're completely wrong. Silence is the bane of Rets - along with Fear. Sure stuns suck, but they suck for everyone.

    I agree that every other class has amazing cooldowns now. Paladins in general used to be one of a few classes with a really good cooldown. Warlock cooldowns are off the charts. DKs could use a little love but they have more reliable cooldowns over time.

    Blizzard did exactly what I didn't want them to do. They decided to buff Ret self healing. I think our healing is fine currently....I think WoG could do a little more and not Flash of Light. The problem with self healing classes is their silence susceptibility.

    If I had to make one suggestion. .....

    I would bring Consecrate back for Ret Paladins. Give it a 1 minute cooldown and have it do little or no damage. Make it an anti-Ring of Peace. It will last 8 or 10 seconds and give silence immunity while you're standing in it. And/Or provide the Eye for an Eye effect while you're in it....reflecting 20% of damage taken back to the caster. So it would act as a defensive cooldown and provide RBG utility. It would also counter Ring of Peace, Smokebomb, Ring of Frost, and Solar Beam.

    Combine this with Ret healing on live +20% for WoG ONLY. Plus the Exorcism/TV change. Plus make Divine Protection glyph baseline and offer the glyph to make it how it is unglyphed currently. Also, the Sheath of Light change is good too.
    I like the idea of bringing Consecration back for rets as well. Having somehing unique to the spec that acts as a counter to some of the over-the-top abilities in RBGs would go along way for us. After losing the old Sacred Shield, I feel like ret has become way too vulnerable no matter how good you make our heals.

    As for Divine Shield, I don't think it's nearly as good as it used to be and the 5 minute CD is not justified as it stands. I wouldn't propose changing it at all though. I think they just need to remove mass dispel from the game. It's too strong IMO.

  2. #22
    Divine Protection to reduce physical damage taken by 40% 1 minute cd. So we have 1 cd for magic and 1 for physical.

  3. #23
    The Patient Dmchomerun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meanor View Post
    Divine Protection to reduce physical damage taken by 40% 1 minute cd. So we have 1 cd for magic and 1 for physical.
    Divine Protection is the Magic Damage Reduction Cooldown.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    So let Ret paladins be fubar OP for 12 seconds every 5 minutes. Sounds like S5 all over again.
    you act like rets are so awesome atm that a 12 sec cd every 5mins would be the tipping point for them
    i'm not saying it's a good idea but i am saying that it wouldn't make rets insanely OP
    tbh i don't even understand why people are so afraid of BEIN' OP; saying they need to trade X to get Y when half the classes already have X and Y except better implemented
    why's ret gotta run by the most archaic mindset in the world y'know?
    Blizzard has been highly resistant in giving Ret more powerful healing as a defensive boost because it would make them too powerful as off healers (Shadow Priest heals were nerfed for this exact reason).
    up until the recent patch notes blizz has been highly resistant in giving ret anything remotely helpful for their class
    btw, nerfing spriest defensive dispel then giving it to rets? it's a joke
    Giving Ret paladins additional defensive cooldowns (especially CC breaks) will also make them unstoppable damage machines, so Blizzard's like no thank you.
    it's only ok when classes like DK or warrior or rogue have them y'know, can't have rets bein' too viable in RBGS
    The best way to fix Ret survive is to grant them additional resilience, like how Spriests get Shadow form, Balance druids get Moonkin form, and Holy/Disc gets Focused Will.
    this will not make rets anymore viable, they are weak

    DS should be undispellable and not give a 50% dmg penalty
    also why is forbearnce still in the game, it should not be there(for rets) or at least a lower duration(30 secs OP??? lol)
    keep divine shield, put in a -15% dmg received from players and attach it to SOJ
    would this make rets OP?

    hahaha maybe playable is the word you're looking for

  5. #25
    I would say buff it,its not 12 secs anymore

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Dmchomerun View Post
    Divine Protection is the Magic Damage Reduction Cooldown.
    Ye sorry i meant divine shield. As op said, i think its one of the major reasons that keeps us for getting any buffs. It needs to go all together or be altered.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Psilar View Post

    If I had to make one suggestion. .....

    I would bring Consecrate back for Ret Paladins. Give it a 1 minute cooldown and have it do little or no damage. Make it an anti-Ring of Peace. It will last 8 or 10 seconds and give silence immunity while you're standing in it. And/Or provide the Eye for an Eye effect while you're in it....reflecting 20% of damage taken back to the caster. So it would act as a defensive cooldown and provide RBG utility. It would also counter Ring of Peace, Smokebomb, Ring of Frost, and Solar Beam.

    .
    that is a brilliant idea mind if i post it in the blizzard forums i think this got alot of potential.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dmchomerun View Post
    I think you are missing the point that when Divine Shield is active, our damage output is reduced by 50%.
    Unstoppable damage is unstoppable damage, whether at 50% or not, especially since Ret Paladins hit like two trucks with cooldowns popped at 100%. You're also forgetting the fact that Divine Shield makes an excellent off-heal cooldown. Blizzard nerfed Divine Shield from 12s to 8s in MoP for good reason: 12 seconds of letting the Ret Paladin do whatever he wants is not balanced.

    As I've stated earlier, there are other ways to fix Paladins without buffing Divine Shield to imba levels. The best way is to grant Ret Paladins some form of damage resistance, making Rets balanced without making them increasingly imba in select situations.

  9. #29
    Blademaster Icecold3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Blizzard nerfed Divine Shield from 12s to 8s in MoP for good reason: 12 seconds of letting the Ret Paladin do whatever he wants is not balanced.
    Aww man , but Ret pallys run out of mana only casting 2 flash of light inside bubble , and you can't heal yourself enough , maybe 10% to 30% at most.
    Divine Shield is balanced, i dunno lol.

  10. #30
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhenye View Post
    Do you mean all the classes in the game or the classes you mentioned? If you mean all classes then you are really mistaken.
    True, not all. But sum up the defensive CDs of all: most have some immune and the ones that don't have strong defensives and CC breakers on much LOWER CD. Ret have pretty much only DS. BoP is REALLY weak for Ret self use.
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  11. #31
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    At this point the only good thing for Divine Shield is remove it, It doesn't work in 3/4 of the raid encounters anymore so it's not exactly a go to ability. There is nothing clutch about it just remove it and rework divine protection. Some will say iconic ability blah blah don't remove it. I'd rather have it be a shiny iconic ability that doesn't exist than be the bane of the Ret PvP existence as it currently is.
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  12. #32
    At this point the only good thing for Divine Shield is remove it, It doesn't work in 3/4 of the raid encounters anymore so it's not exactly a go to ability.
    Or switch it to something like cloak of shadows for soaking purposes and make divine protection 40% physical.

  13. #33
    Stood in the Fire
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    Speaking as a primary Protection Paladin, the one thing I've ALWAYS hated about Divine Shield is that its arguably the most iconic Paladin ability, and we make only niche use of it. Either using it to clear debuffs and then auto-remove it with a macro or by performing the age-old Bubble + Reckoning combo. Which works for 4 seconds. Considering that most debuffs that need to be worked around are now undispellable by Divine Shield, the first functionality is almost entirely gone.

    So yeah, I'm all for revamping this spell. Whether or not the OP's answer is the right one, I cannot say, but at least the impotency of the Retribution toolbox seems to be on the minds of the Blizzard Developers (we got a LOT of attention this patch, even if most of it ended up being removed).

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    They should just add a glyph that makes Divine Shield turn into a 50% damage reduction that removes all negative effects and lasts 6 seconds with a 3min cd.

    This would allow people to choose between which type of mechanic they like more.
    Totally not mandatory for pve...

  15. #35
    I mean, if we're going to be comparing spells to each other in a vacuum, might as well point out the blaring weaknesses in those abilities.

    - Anti Magic Shell: 45secs, 75% (to 100% with glyph) less magic damage + immune to magic CC.
    -50% max absorb for SPELLS ONLY
    -CCable

    - Deterrence: Immune to attacks and 30% less dots already up on 2 mins CD and resetable.
    -Unable to do any offensive actions for the duration, I'd gladly give this to rets over Divine Shield.

    - Ice Block: Immune for 10secs on 5 mins and resetable.
    - Unable to do ANY actions (this includes offensive, defensive and movement) for the duration, again, I'd gladly give this to rets over Divine Shield.

    - Touch of Karma: Immune for 10secs (to max life), 90secs CD.
    -No immunities here, it's an absorb effect. You can put dots on a monk with this, you can CC a monk with this up, you can't do so to a Divine Shielded Paladin.
    -Dispelable
    -CCable

    - Diffuse Magic: 90% less magic + spell reflect for 6secs on 90secs CD.
    -Not baseline
    -Spell Damage only
    -CCable

    - Zen Meditation: 90% less ALL damage + reflect for 8secs on 3mins CD - break with melee.
    -Breaks on melee
    -90% less on the next 5 spells or 1 melee hit, not "ALL" damage.
    -Doesn't reflect, don't know what you're talking about
    -Unable to do ANY actions for the duration (this includes offensive, defensive and movement)
    -Interuptable
    -CCable

    - Zen Pilgrimage: Teleport, therefore pulls to safety, breaking all damage until being in range again.
    -Has a CD (longer than Hearthstone)
    -Auto removes from BGs and Arenas
    -Not a DR CD, I have no idea what you're talking about

    - Hand of Protection: Immune to Physical for 10secs, can't physical attack + Forberance on 5mins CD.
    -Paladins have this already

    - Dispersion: 90% less all damage for 6secs, can't cast, clears snare on 2mins CD.
    -CCable
    -Unable to do any offensive actions for duration, I'd gladly give this to rets over Divine Shield

    - Cloak of Shadows: Immune and remove all magical for 5secs on 2 mins CD.
    -Spells only
    -CCable

    - Vanish: Invisibility + remove moviment impair on 3mins CD (can't hit what can't see)
    -Not a DR cooldown

    - Dark Bargain: Immune for 8secs, usable CC'd, takes 50% damage overtime after on 3mins CD.
    -50% of the damage absorbed is dealt back to the target overtime, which makes bursting them after it fades easier
    -Can be CCed, I'd gladly give this to paladins over divine shield.

    - Demonic Circle: Teleport: Teleport to out of range/LoS on 30 secs CD = time to recover.
    -Not a DR cd.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Totally not mandatory for pve...
    Why would that be mandatory for pve as a Ret paladin? Taking no damage at all would be much better than taking 50% less damage in pve where it can't be removed.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    Why would that be mandatory for pve as a Ret paladin? Taking no damage at all would be much better than taking 50% less damage in pve where it can't be removed.
    "(for Ret / Prot)"
    Because this also mentions prot ?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    "(for Ret / Prot)"
    Because this also mentions prot ?
    The post may mention prot but I did not. And seeing as how you replied to my comment "prot pve" is irrelevant.

  19. #39
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Hrmm.. Rather then nerfing Divine Protection, I would suggest the addition of another cooldown..

    Lets call it Retribution Aura. For 6 seconds, the Paladin surrounds allies withing a 15 yd range with an aura of Retribution. 40% of damage dealt to allies is ALSO dealt to the attacker (So its not a damage reduction CD, but rather applies pressure to those pressuring). Loss of Control abilties applied to allies are also applied to those who used it. Using a CC effect on the paladin during Retribution Aura extends the duration of the Aura by an amount equivalent to the duration of the CC (So you can't just go, ok, paladin poped this cooldown, hit him with a CC). Its counterable by moving the paladin away from the allies. Its a good "get off me" CD for paladins. Finally, it really defines the "retribution" part of Retribution paladins, thats currently missing from thier toolkit. (In PvP atm, Retribution Paladins might as well be named save-allies-paladin-that-cant-do-jack-on-his-own).
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Hrmm.. Rather then nerfing Divine Protection, I would suggest the addition of another cooldown..

    Lets call it Retribution Aura. For 6 seconds, the Paladin surrounds allies withing a 15 yd range with an aura of Retribution. 40% of damage dealt to allies is ALSO dealt to the attacker (So its not a damage reduction CD, but rather applies pressure to those pressuring). Loss of Control abilties applied to allies are also applied to those who used it. Using a CC effect on the paladin during Retribution Aura extends the duration of the Aura by an amount equivalent to the duration of the CC (So you can't just go, ok, paladin poped this cooldown, hit him with a CC). Its counterable by moving the paladin away from the allies. Its a good "get off me" CD for paladins. Finally, it really defines the "retribution" part of Retribution paladins, thats currently missing from thier toolkit. (In PvP atm, Retribution Paladins might as well be named save-allies-paladin-that-cant-do-jack-on-his-own).
    Seems to be uber op in terms of dmg.

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