Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41
    Tbh after reading this and countless of other similar posts I've come to a conclusion that i miss Divine Intervention.
    I would love to see D.I coming back, but with a change:

    "You sacrifice a random healer or tank to rent yourself immune from all harm for 2 minutes"

    Bls GC, make it happen

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Meanor View Post
    Tbh after reading this and countless of other similar posts I've come to a conclusion that i miss Divine Intervention.
    I would love to see D.I coming back, but with a change:

    "You sacrifice a random healer or tank to rent yourself immune from all harm for 2 minutes"

    Bls GC, make it happen
    Would be amazing, tanks / healers don't get a repair bill if wipe.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Would be amazing, tanks / healers don't get a repair bill if wipe.
    No they should! Let me keep working on it:

    "You sacrifice a random healer or tank to rend yourself immune from all harm for 2 minutes. Sacrificed players suffer normal durability loss".

    They get normal bill, you get a bio / drink brake + mass res.

    The effect has to be spectacular as well. Maybe like the execution sentence effect but a bit more flashy!

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Broloth View Post
    - Deterrence: Immune to attacks and 30% less dots already up on 2 mins CD and resetable.
    -Unable to do any offensive actions for the duration, I'd gladly give this to rets over Divine Shield.

    - Dispersion: 90% less all damage for 6secs, can't cast, clears snare on 2mins CD.
    -CCable
    -Unable to do any offensive actions for duration, I'd gladly give this to rets over Divine Shield
    And I'd gladly take it. None of these "weaknesses" really matter for a defensive cd. However the short cooldown makes them so much better.

  5. #45
    The Patient Cronosmash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Broloth View Post
    I mean, if we're going to be comparing spells to each other in a vacuum, might as well point out the blaring weaknesses in those abilities.
    Ret can't heal up decently during DS so there is no big diference between all of those since all give time for a HEALER to heal the target up. If Ret could heal to 100% during DS you may had a point if 5 mins long CD didn't suck so bad. But then, my points still stand. I'm talking about peels/breathing room here.

    I rewrote the main tread here and on Blizz forum with some of your ideas. Here it is. +1 vote and post there to help spread the word if you agree with the main idea of Ret survivability/being trained.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7980249795
    Last edited by Cronosmash; 2013-03-03 at 01:19 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    Ret can't heal up decently during DS so there is no big diference between all of those since all give time for a HEALER to heal the target up. If Ret could heal to 100% during DS you may had a point if 5 mins long CD didn't suck so bad. But then, my points still stand. I'm talking about peels/breathing room here.
    You could heal up to full in WotLK during Divine Shield so, with LoH, you had like 3 lives. That and bubble-hearth.

  7. #47
    Leave it. What ret really needs is a gap closer kinda like what the angels can do in diablo. Then we can apply more pressure and be more or less a pressure cooker to bubble wait 2 min then go for kill if we have a gap closer we can have more up time then the whole class as a whole will be much better off.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    [...]
    - Deterrence: Immune to attacks and 30% less dots already up on 2 mins CD and resetable.

    [...]

    - Hand of Protection: Immune to Physical for 10secs, can't physical attack + Forberance on 5mins CD.
    You forgot to mention the trade-off: you cannot attack while those are active (in addition: HoP can be purged). There is one defensive CD you did not mention as well: the warrior's "new retaliation" (100% parry = immune to physical attacks unless they are bleeds already applied).

    Personally I like Divine Shield. I don't think it's op, but the opponent must react accordingly (eg. Mass Dispell, Shattered Throw). In PvE it is a great tool to open up some great alternatives on specific encounters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rennegadelawlz View Post
    [...] What ret really needs is a gap closer [...]
    Try Emancipate more often.

  9. #49
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    541
    Quote Originally Posted by Homsel View Post
    the warrior's "new retaliation" (100% parry = immune to physical attacks unless they are bleeds already applied).
    Judgement/HoW (and other ranged attacks) can't be parried. Also, you can't parry from behind. It's more like rogue's Evasion.
    Lethora, 90 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
    Amberglow, 90 Assassination Rogue, Shadowsong-EU
    Raiding 25man, 10hrs/week, 12/14H.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    Judgement/HoW (and other ranged attacks) can't be parried.
    Yes, I ment melee attacks - sorry for the inaccuracy.

    Also, you can't parry from behind. It's more like rogue's Evasion.
    Indeed it is. But in PvP melee can be parried from behind, only mobs lost this ability. (look up additional citation later)

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I think he was trying to highlight the issues that Sub/Feral has due to latency in PVP, whereby Shreds/Backstabs can occasionally get parried when the server disagrees about positioning.
    Because there were a lot of inconsistencies (WoW wiki, other databases etc.) and normal combat logs from BGs/arenas I did some testing on my own. Indeed without any movement there are no parries or dodges from behind when attacking another player. I made a small set of about 500 attacks from behind and 500 facing the front, which are enough do determine the total 0% chances from behind.
    Last edited by Homsel; 2013-03-09 at 10:13 AM.

  11. #51
    -I would prefer getting old Sacred shield and Last word back. It would be the easiest solution to fix ret defenses.

    -However, Bubble is the one spell that has dragged us down for a long time. Blizzard balanced us around having this too strong ability with a too long cd which in practice feels like the worst defensive cooldown in game because it can be countered so easily and you can pretty much use it once in a arena match because you either kill someone fast or get killed before it comes off cd. I think giving it a glyph would be the best idea not to make Role players mad for losing their iconic divine shield. Something like:

    Glyph Of Divine shield: Reduces the cooldown of your divine shield by 2 minutes and duration to 4 seconds, still clears all debuffs off you and makes you immune to crowd control during that time. Damage reduction reduced to 80% down from 100%. No longer makes you drop a flag in pvp.

    -About the idea of Anti-Ring of peace Consecration: This would be something that would actually make ret wanted in RBG. Gorefiend+Vortex+beam+RoP is pretty much the mandatory combo for highest rank RBG next season. It's basically almost uncounterable combo. If someone had the tools to counter this somehow, an aoe ability that makes you immune to silences when standing on it, an ability that makes you immune to Vortex and gorefiend grips and knockbacks, an ability that clears aoe cc from the entire raid with a reasonable cooldown or something like that. Enhancement could have something like this too. This would make them wanted to counter these overpowered RBG mechanics.

  12. #52
    Moderator Fhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Carnished Toast
    Posts
    2,924
    Quote Originally Posted by Homsel View Post
    Indeed it is. But in PvP melee can be parried from behind, only mobs lost this ability. (look up additional citation later)
    No way. You can't even dodge from behind, only mobs can.

    Paladin Beard Moderator | MMO-C Guidelines | Signature and avatar art by Dancing Hare

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    No way. You can't even dodge from behind, only mobs can.
    I think he was trying to highlight the issues that Sub/Feral has due to latency in PVP, whereby Shreds/Backstabs can occasionally get parried when the server disagrees about positioning.

    But, given that his remedy to a gap closer is this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Homsel View Post
    Try Emancipate more often.
    I may be giving too much credit here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    Tread on Blizz PTR here, +1 vote and post there to help spread the word if you agree with the main idea of Ret survivability/being trained.
    There is a case for Rets survivability to be buffed.

    I do not want Divine Shield to be the answer to that.

    Divine Shield is an iconic spell that has been around since Vanilla. It used to be very strong. It currently is not as it's downsides currently outweigh its usefulness. Having said that, it is still very useful.....it's just situationally useful.

    That said, it could perhaps do with tweaking. For example...is Forbearance needed? It prevents the use of LoH at the same time, true...but LoH is likely going to get used anyway. What about the immunity via HoP? Glyphs for it? Amend via talents?

    The big point here is solve the LOW defensives or Ret and the fact Ret is always being trained.
    Not likely through the use of DS.

    - If Divine Shield CD does not change, than Divine Protection to remove or immune a CC is a MUST becouse all other specs have it an Ret is too vulnerable against CC.
    HoF removes movement impairing effects.

    We all agree: 5 mins to this utility is INSANE too long.
    For what its worth? Yes. For what it is? Questionable. It's a nice, situationally useful tool with some flavor. A blanket immunity is out of place in the is game but Blizzard has managed to find a way to keep it without making it too useful or OP in such a way that the class can and does gain falvor and feel from it. There are too few of these abilities about and being honest, LoH is a FAR stronger defensive tool.

    EJL

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    There is a case for Rets survivability to be buffed.

    I do not want Divine Shield to be the answer to that.

    Divine Shield is an iconic spell that has been around since Vanilla. It used to be very strong. It currently is not as it's downsides currently outweigh its usefulness. Having said that, it is still very useful.....it's just situationally useful.

    That said, it could perhaps do with tweaking. For example...is Forbearance needed? It prevents the use of LoH at the same time, true...but LoH is likely going to get used anyway. What about the immunity via HoP? Glyphs for it? Amend via talents?



    Not likely through the use of DS.



    HoF removes movement impairing effects.



    For what its worth? Yes. For what it is? Questionable. It's a nice, situationally useful tool with some flavor. A blanket immunity is out of place in the is game but Blizzard has managed to find a way to keep it without making it too useful or OP in such a way that the class can and does gain falvor and feel from it. There are too few of these abilities about and being honest, LoH is a FAR stronger defensive tool.

    EJL
    you realise LoH is banned from rated pvp? also, the current forbearance is okay. it's annoying but at least ret can't do stupid stuff like being imune for 15 + sec.

    I hope they will change how divine shield works for ret/prot. prot is not even an option for pvp, since 2 important cooldowns cant be used while carrying the flag. I would happily trade my bubble for an ability like detterance simple because it's more reliable due to the cooldown being shorter.

  16. #56
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Not nearly out of the way enough
    Posts
    4,374
    Quote Originally Posted by gildra View Post
    you realise LoH is banned from rated pvp? also, the current forbearance is okay. it's annoying but at least ret can't do stupid stuff like being imune for 15 + sec.
    Not that chaining Divine Shield and HoProtection on yourself would matter. The former halves your damage output, the latter completely negates physical attack output and only prevents physical damage. We don't have the mana to go healer-mode during this, either. If it were possible to do, the only thing it would accomplish is completely removing yourself from the fight for 15 seconds, nothing more.

  17. #57
    Moderator Fhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Carnished Toast
    Posts
    2,924
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    If it were possible to do, the only thing it would accomplish is completely removing yourself from the fight for 15 seconds, nothing more.
    Don't forget looking pretty also while not being able to do much. That seems to be our theme. >.<

    Paladin Beard Moderator | MMO-C Guidelines | Signature and avatar art by Dancing Hare

  18. #58
    Stood in the Fire Holymorph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    466
    We need an anti-fear/stun and a gap closer.

    Something like making HoF out of GDC and remove stuns, oh boy that would be awesome.

  19. #59
    Outside of the rare encounter where bubble is useful I really only use it to prevent fall damage especially when CRZ likes to be shitty and dismounts you.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by gildra View Post
    you realise LoH is banned from rated pvp?
    Strangely enough, yes. But the funny thing about DS is that it isn't just available in rated PvP. Yes, the OP suggested that other specs wouldn't be adversely affected that much. I find the attitude "I don't care what other specs think" to be less than laudable....especially when he starts off by saying DS is "too strong" and then implies Ice Block is stronger and doesn't mention Divine Protection at all. Sure, one can make the argument Ret does require stringer defences and survivability in PvP. Suggesting that DS is the cause the class is held back? Its one tool the class has amongst several.

    also, the current forbearance is okay. it's annoying but at least ret can't do stupid stuff like being immune for 15 + sec.
    Which doesn't make it the only solution to that issue. Of course, nerfing your damage output by an average of approx 75% while still leaving yourself vulnerable to magic/Shattering Throw/MD isn't what I'd call a desirable PvP tactic either.

    The point is...DS is a situationally useful ability as it stands and it adds a good deal of flavor. Something that is often removed. The downsides mean it is often better to make use of other spells and abilities. But I don't believe getting rid of a weak spell is always necessarily in the best interest of the class. Situational tools have their uses and its good to have them.

    EJL

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •