1. #1

    Angry Guardian threat issues

    Hey all, i seem to be having constant threat issues at the moment and i can't figure out why. Is it simple due to my item level?

    If i do LFR i struggle to take the aggro from the other tanks, despite taunting or using other high aggro moves. I will end up with the other tank shouting out to taunt, even though i am.

    I also had this with a guild normal raid, the other tank was around ilvl 490 and i am 479, and everytime i taunted from him, i couldn't take full aggro.

    This doesn't seem right, and i'm hoping someone here can help.

    I've done my reforge/gems/enchants from askmrrobot, and admit i have a couple of enchants missing atm, but have the rest sorted.

    Here's a link to my armoury

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...kingyou/simple

    Thanks for any help

  2. #2
    Immortal Treelife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,242
    You have barely any hit and expertise, last I checked, you should be getting those capped. Correct me if I'm wrong though people.

    Edit: Select the "Rage Build" and that should help you.

  3. #3
    Thanks for the advice, can you explain why that would help me though? (More i know the more i can learn lol)

  4. #4
    Not hitting the boss kinds of defeat the purpose of getting aggro. :P

  5. #5
    Blademaster Omnomnoms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Loli-land
    Posts
    47
    I don't know how well you and your tanking buddy are coordinated, but unless you need every single inch of DPS to bring a boss down, tell the off tank to lay off using his big hitting abilities after a tank swap. Unless it will increase his survival (self healing for a DoT, reduce raid damage) then there is no reason to go balls to the wall with damaging abilities after a tank swap.
    He has tons of Vengeance and you will have none. That is most likely your issue.
    Troll Shadow Priest
    Condemned (H) - Shadowsong US

  6. #6
    Your problem is that (like others pointed out) you have waaay too low exp/hit, you should aim to get them hardcapped ASAP. Besides that, you have gemmed/reforged for stamina and dodge, which is pretty much the worst stats you can have currently.

    Also, for lvl 90 talents you should go with HotW, as the passive agility and stamina will outdo NV. It also enables you to dps/heal if you don't need to tank anything for a while. Finally, ditch the barkskin glyph, it's worthless for a guardian. There are not really any mandatory glyphs, but the glyph of stampeding roar (increase range by 30 yards) is really good.
    "The secret of life is to appreciate the pleasure of being terribly, terribly deceived." -Oscar Wilde

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dinga/advanced

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Crysthalica View Post
    Your problem is that (like others pointed out) you have waaay too low exp/hit, you should aim to get them hardcapped ASAP. Besides that, you have gemmed/reforged for stamina and dodge, which is pretty much the worst stats you can have currently.

    Also, for lvl 90 talents you should go with HotW, as the passive agility and stamina will outdo NV. It also enables you to dps/heal if you don't need to tank anything for a while. Finally, ditch the barkskin glyph, it's worthless for a guardian. There are not really any mandatory glyphs, but the glyph of stampeding roar (increase range by 30 yards) is really good.
    Some great information there, thank you.

    I've gone the dodge route, simply because it's what askmrrobot.com suggested first time round, and it's the build i've used since Cata (When i made my bear) so i've just stuck with it.

    I understand about the exp/hit issue now. If it's too low, then i wont hit things. So, i'm guessing if i try the other build at askmrrobot, it should give me the exp/hit cap i need.

    The gems etc are also because the site told me to use them.
    I'm rubbish at doing the reforges which is why i use sites like that to guide me on what to change.

    I will get rid of the Barkskin glyph, any suggestions what to replace it with?

    And i used to use HotW, but a guide i read online somewhere said to go for it, so i swapped too it. So i will just swap back now then

  8. #8
    • There's only one major problem with your gear that I see: you have reforged everything to dodge. Don't do that. You are seriously low on hit and expertise, you must be missing the boss a lot, which is part of your problem. Un-reforge everything. Reforge mastery to hit if you need to, to reach the hit cap (7.5%). After that, reforge mastery to expertise if you need to, to reach the softcap (7.5%). However you can go over up to 15% expertise if you want/need more rage generation (I think I'm sitting on ~11% without reforging, which I find works just fine). Finally reforge the rest of your mastery to crit if you want/need more rage generation. Having hit & expertise means you hit more often, which means more & regular rage generation, which in turn means you can use your active mitigation abilities more often. It also does more DPS which is a great side effect. Having critical strike means even more rage generation.
    • I usually gem like this: 320 crit (yellow), 160crit/160expertise (red) and 160crit/160hit (blue), although stamina, expertise, hit, crit/stamina or expertise/stamina gems can all work.
    • I'd personally use agility/crit enchants on shoulders & legs, but your stamina/dodge ones are good too, especially if you need more health.
    • You need to enchant some more items.
    • Here's me for comparison.
    • Read this carefully.
    • As for things you can replace the Barkskin glyph with, in no particular order: Rebirth, Stampeding Roar, Fae Silence (for heroic dungeons), Survival Instincts (if you need SI more often), Might of Ursoc (works well with Renewal).
    • I much prefer Nature's Vigil over Heart of the Wild (except on certain specific encounters). It syncs up very nicely with Incarnation, and the healing provided is not to be sniffed at. It's usually roughly equal to Frenzied Regeneration in healing done to me, on fights where I use SD at least as much as FR. So talent what you prefer.
    Last edited by Blencathra; 2013-03-02 at 12:09 AM.
    Blencathra <Hexx> - Guardian Druid - Chamber of Aspects

  9. #9
    Bah i just this second finished reforging everything to what mrrobot said again lol. Only now my hit and exp say

    Physical Hit
    2.64%
    0.00%
    MH Expertise
    8.29%
    +1.59%

    Which seems to be far off still, I think i need to stop using askmrrobot! My armoury should be updated to reflect my recent reforge.

    Just want to get this done right, and enjoy my bear again!

  10. #10
    Don't worry about it, that looks much better already.
    Blencathra <Hexx> - Guardian Druid - Chamber of Aspects

  11. #11
    Thank you, your reply before was incredibly detailed. I'm reading the link you suggested too.

    What about my physical hit though? 2.64 seems low?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Trix09 View Post
    Thank you, your reply before was incredibly detailed. I'm reading the link you suggested too.

    What about my physical hit though? 2.64 seems low?
    Mods I'd suggest:

    Helm -
    Change meta to agile.
    Change gem to precise (320 expertise)

    Shoulder -
    Change enchant to agi/crit (tiger claw inscription?)
    Change gem to precise

    Cape -
    Enchant with 180 hit

    Chest -
    Enchant with glorious stats

    Bracer -
    Enchant with agility

    Gloves -
    Enchant with 170 crit
    Change gem to agile serpent's eye

    Belt -
    Get a living steel belt buckle
    Change current gem to smooth (320 crit)
    Add a precise gem to new socket

    Pants -
    Change gem to agile serpent's eye
    Change enchant to agi/crit

    Trinket1 (stuff of nightmares) -
    Change reforge from crit to hit

    Weapon -
    Change reforge from mastery to hit
    Change enchant to dancing steel, or windsong if dancing steel is too expensive

    ------

    That being said, doing all of the above and even more to perfect your gear probably won't meaningfully change your damage by more than ~10, maybe 15% max, and from what you're saying, you're need something like a 100% damage boost.

    Make a macro:

    /castsequence Mangle, Lacerate, Thrash, Lacerate, Mangle, Lacerate, Faerie Fire, Lacerate

    And spam that for single target scenarios. Add another one for aoe scenarios:

    /castsequence Thrash, Swipe, Mangle, Swipe

    And only have those two buttons along with maul, savage defense, and frenzied regen on your main bar. Spam the appropriate one as necessary.

  13. #13
    Kai with those macros, if you're out of rage or spamming too fast will it wait until a successful cast of an ability before it moves on?
    Errr

  14. #14
    Even when hit capped and hard expertise capped you can still easily run in to this issue. Tell your other tank to hold off using his abilities for a bit after you taunted. Grabbing aggro without vengeance from a tank who has just been smacked in the face by a boss isn't exactly easy if he keeps doing his rotation.

  15. #15
    Get 7.5% Hit and 7.5% expertise, then go full crit for awesomesauce. Here's my armory for comparisons.

    It's important that you use Mangle on cooldown, and keep Thrash and 3 stacks of Lacerate up at all times. If you are going to be out of range FF on CD.

    If you're having trouble on tank switches because of vengeance, either let your co-tank know that he should stop hitting for a few seconds after the switch or use Growl on CD until you've got some nice Vengeance stacked.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoibert View Post
    Get 7.5% Hit and 7.5% expertise, then go full crit for awesomesauce. Here's [ for comparisons.

    It's important that you use Mangle on cooldown, and keep Thrash and 3 stacks of Lacerate up at all times. If you are going to be out of range FF on CD.

    If you're having trouble on tank switches because of vengeance, either let your co-tank know that he should stop hitting for a few seconds after the switch or use Growl on CD until you've got some nice Vengeance stacked.
    the 7.5% exp the soft cap is cool then going crit is great, but after thinking about it (and it being discussed on theincbear) and trying it for a few weeks found I loved the 15% exp hard cap, overal was very little dps loss, but not having a parry - parry - parry or w/e is just awesome

    tho to be fair with his gear he is going struggle to get soft cap of exp and hit

  17. #17
    Gems:

    Meta = +324 Stamina and +2% increased AC from items
    Yellow = Pure Crit
    Blue = Crit+Hit
    Red = Exp+Crit.

    You may want to consider gemming 2 JC Delicate red gems or 2 JC Solid gems as to take full advantage of the JC bonus but not sure that +320/+240 AGI/STA beats +320 Crit.

    Enchants:

    Shoulder: Agi+Crit
    Cloak: Crit
    Chest: +80 All Stats or +300 Stamina
    Bracer: Agi
    Gloves: Expertise
    Belt: Belt Buckle w/ pure Crit gem
    Pants: Agi+Crit
    Boots: Agi+Movement Speed

    Reforging:

    Hit + Exp to 7.5% > Crit >= 15% Expertise > Haste > Mastery > Dodge

    Reasoning for the above:

    1. In MoP, Active Mitigation > Passive Mitigation. If you haven't noticed, Dodge's diminishing returns is so severe that you're already going to have issues with it just from the Agility you have on your gear. Savage Defense will always grant 40% Dodge when active; good luck achieving that via passive mitigation.

    2. To keep Active Mitigation up you're going to need Rage; lots and lots of Rage. Bears have two great defensive tools to spend Rage on: Savage Defense (for attacks that can be dodge) and Frenzied Regeneration (for attacks that can't be dodge). These should be your highest used abilities outside of your Rage generating skills.

    3. Mastery is rated so low because of three reasons: Bear form gives 50% bonuses to Haste and Crit (which in turn means more Rage generation), Armor's diminishing returns for survivability, and because Armor's value on fights with very little physical damage (therefore Mastery's value) plummets.

    Edit: For gems you can go Blue = Crit+Sta and Red = Crit+Agi you do not need the gemmed hit/exp to reach the caps you want.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2013-03-03 at 12:36 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    Kai with those macros, if you're out of rage or spamming too fast will it wait until a successful cast of an ability before it moves on?
    Yes. Optionally throw a reset=12 or a reset=6 in there. I suppose I should mention that while the aoe macro is pretty much spot on in what you should be doing, the single target macro is at best 90-95% of your max potential damage/threat. On the other hand, that's generally better than what most humans can accomplish.

    Even when hit capped and hard expertise capped you can still easily run in to this issue. Tell your other tank to hold off using his abilities for a bit after you taunted. Grabbing aggro without vengeance from a tank who has just been smacked in the face by a boss isn't exactly easy if he keeps doing his rotation.
    The other tank should really only stop if the swap occurs within the first ~20 seconds of the fight (or just use a salv). After say, 30 seconds, when you taunt, the other tank needs to do 10% more of his current threat (3 seconds more of damage) on top of what you're doing to pull threat back. So with bad luck, that could happen, which is why we're advocating getting hit/exp cap. If the other tank is pulling threat back a minute or longer into the fight, then even if he's spamming his abilities non-stop, the blame lies squarely on your shoulders for losing threat. Alternatively, find something bad to stand in for a while to get some vengeance before the taunt.
    Last edited by kaiadam; 2013-03-03 at 02:27 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •