LFR + Normal/Heroic legendary "lockout"

[eschatological]

I'm sorry, but the idea of LFR players being gipped out of the full Wrathion questline if the legendary doesn't drop in LFR is bogus. You are not entitled to all the content without meeting the bar for effort put forth. And the effort put forth in raiding LFR, even if you do every wing, every week, is microscopic compared to the effort put forth in just raiding normal modes.

You are not entitled to the 150 mount achievement mount if you only have 5 mounts. You are not entitled to the Operation: Shieldwall storyline if you only roll Horde. You are not entitled to the meta mounts from the holiday achievements if you only did that one boss during the summer festival.

Legendaries are like those things - they require a certain amount of effort. LFR nets you some of that effort, and I'm willing to bet, likely most of the effort needed (where most of the effort merely involves time). But it is nowhere near all.

Oh, and it doesn't have to be a 1 at a time thing, Tehstool. Just have drops of some reagant in normal/heroic that everyone can loot, like this first tier, and then some version of a Sha-touched weapon off Garrosh which combines to make it legendary. IE, epic gun off Garrosh, I've farmed all the shit I need to in SoO, combine to form legendary gun. In that way, the legendary is a result both of a long grind (a la Wrath/Cataclysm) and a bit of luck (getting the prereq epic to drop off a SoO normal/heroic boss), a la Vanilla/TBC.

[Firebert]

LFR hasn't really breathed life back into raiding, because raiding in terms of popularity and participation, as far as I know, hasn't gone much of any direction other than backward since Wrath.

Firelands is perceived to be the low point of raiding, between Wrath and MoP.

Organized raiding is an activity that a relatively small number of people participate in. Before LFR, you could have removed it from WoW, 10% of the players would have quit, and everyone else would be "thank God, they're gone now."

However, Blizzard don't like losing anyone.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 02:51 PM ----------

You are not entitled to the Operation: Shieldwall storyline if you only roll Horde.

You get a different storyline in return, and the cross-faction scenarios will be unlocked for the opposite faction once the expansion ends.

And that's the whole point. The culmination of the legendary item quest should be available to all regardless of your preferred raid difficulty. It's like saying you could only do Lich King on 25 man Heroic (and finish the epic storyling) because Normal "isn't enough effort", or the first raid that kills Kil'jaeden prevents the rest of the realm from killing him because they didn't "put enough effort" into trying to get Server First.

This is another arbitrary line argument and you can see why it's silly if I place the line as high as some people think LFR is low.

[kennyisnotdead]

The gems are merely incremental gains. The 5.2 bosses are skill checks and less of a dps check. Having legendary anything isn't going to improve your dance skills.

I'm scared for LFR with skill check bosses.. its gonna take a few months after its all released to be a smooth ride. Last night was hell on my alt, even on spirit kings.

I loved harder then normal core raiding but unable to do so now in my life. I'm hoping in the future for an LFR for normal and heroic tuned content with much higher ilvl requirements for queueing.

[Glurp]

It's good, stops raiders from feeling forced to do LFR.

Nothing will stop Heroic Raiders from doing LFR. There is almost always holes in pieces of gear where upgrades from LFR are available for some reason.

[Firebert]

Nothing will stop Heroic Raiders from doing LFR. There is almost always holes in pieces of gear where upgrades from LFR are available for some reason.

The sooner Blizzard embraces this the better, to be honest. Locking out a percentage of people from content just to save the feelings of a tiny minority isn't good business sense.

[kennyisnotdead]

The sooner Blizzard embraces this the better, to be honest. Locking out a percentage of people from content just to save the feelings of a tiny minority isn't good business sense.

I'd love to see the statistics about who has completed the different tiers from 5.1. I am very biased to LFR becuase thats all can do for raiding. I'm just curious as to how many other people are like me in wow and if we are the majority now. Blizz I think keeps it a lower priority to keep guild together who are raiding guilds. they are even giving 25s some cookies in this patch. I dont think its bad thing but I hope we get more LFR features. I'll be doing dialys across a few toons and looking for rares until its released. I'm not sure why after 9 years blizz cares if 1 guild in the world completes it in less than a month.

[Raxxed]

Nothing will stop Heroic Raiders from doing LFR. There is almost always holes in pieces of gear where upgrades from LFR are available for some reason.

LFR is 502
I don't need to do it. Nothing is an upgrade.

[CausalXXLinkXx]

LFR is 502
I don't need to do it. Nothing is an upgrade.

Some trinkets might be absolutely absurd even in LFR form, but for the most part this. Most heroic raiders don't need the gear.

[Otimus]

Firelands is perceived to be the low point of raiding, between Wrath and MoP.


However, Blizzard don't like losing anyone.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 02:51 PM ----------


You get a different storyline in return, and the cross-faction scenarios will be unlocked for the opposite faction once the expansion ends.

And that's the whole point. The culmination of the legendary item quest should be available to all regardless of your preferred raid difficulty. It's like saying you could only do Lich King on 25 man Heroic (and finish the epic storyling) because Normal "isn't enough effort", or the first raid that kills Kil'jaeden prevents the rest of the realm from killing him because they didn't "put enough effort" into trying to get Server First.

This is another arbitrary line argument and you can see why it's silly if I place the line as high as some people think LFR is low.

I don't see why anyone would be against earning legendaries that focus on individual effort more than group effort. That's how it should be :x It should test the player, not the group.

I'd be okay with whatever the final legendary is, being of different power for different levels of players, though. That seems fair. Or maybe you'd get a different "Empowering" object of some kind from the final boss of each difficulty, or something.

[omgacow]

Except the only thing forcing you to do LFR is you.

This change is pretty... well, stupid. A lockout system would allow you to earn the reagents at exactly the same rate as you could if you didn't run LFR and just did normal or heroic.


It's like you're demanding that an internet company remove a faster data package they offer as an option because you don't want to pay for it.


When you stop looking at things in a "I get to" view and switch to a "it's necessary because I can," you have a problem. A problem that has lead to quite a few problems in WoW itself.

This is such a dumb argument every time I hear it. If you are in a guild that is serious about any kind of progression, then your raiders should be doing everything they can to progress their character. If LFR drops the legendary quest items and so does normal, running LFR is a requirement, because you are hurting your character and therefore your guilds progression.

[Mortal Strike]

I agree with Raxxed's original statement; this is a good change because it stops raiders from feeling forced to do LFR.

Now, raiders who want to do LFR can do LFR if they choose, and can do LFR only if they choose... but if they don't want to, there's less pressure to do so.

You're missing the obvious. Blizzard wants raiders to feel forced to do LFR because LFR needs non-retarded players to keep the runs successful, especially at the start of a patch. If Blizzard didn't want raiders to feel forced to do LFR they'd make iLevels 496 and they'd let raiders cap their valor from normal/heroic mode.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 03:40 PM ----------

This is such a dumb argument every time I hear it. If you are in a guild that is serious about any kind of progression, then your raiders should be doing everything they can to progress their character. If LFR drops the legendary quest items and so does normal, running LFR is a requirement, because you are hurting your character and therefore your guilds progression.

^this

I'm sick of hearing the "you're not forced to" argument because it has no basis in reality. The reality is that raiding is a competitive endeavor for many people. There's competition between guilds to down a boss first, and there's competition between raiders to perform at a high level or else they'll be replaced with someone else. And even outside that, many people just want to know they're doing their best to give their raid the best shot at success in general.

That's why raiders are forced to do things like LFR. Is someone putting a gun to their head to do LFR? Literally? No, of course not. Figuratively? Absolutely yes.

[fengosa]

This is such a dumb argument every time I hear it. If you are in a guild that is serious about any kind of progression, then your raiders should be doing everything they can to progress their character. If LFR drops the legendary quest items and so does normal, running LFR is a requirement, because you are hurting your character and therefore your guilds progression.

I highly doubt the meta gem is needed for normal mode progression. You'll never get people to turn it down but saying it hurts your progression is a bit misleading because that varies from guild to guild.

[Tehstool]

Actually, I really like this idea now. My guild is a 25 man with a bigger than 25 man roster. Some people are asked to sit for some fights. Doing LFR will ensure that you get full legendary items this way.

Edit: and rep