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  1. #181
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Sorry that people get tired reading your made up BS, what you'll keep repeating all over the pages of this thread until the last person gives up stating the obvious.
    Where's the BS? What is obvious is that it requires less work to create specs for existing classes than it would to create specs for entire new class.


    Clearly, like the DK had low representation at the beginning of Wo... oh wait.

    Monks are under representated, because they arent balanced... DKs got "balanced" in Cataclysm.
    Monks are underrepresented for a variety of reasons. The POINT is that you are unlikely to see a new class in the next expansion for the reasons I mentioned.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Clearly, like the DK had low representation at the beginning of Wo... oh wait.

    Monks are under representated, because they arent balanced... DKs got "balanced" in Cataclysm.
    Is 'aren't balanced' a cute way of saying 'awful'? Also most people don't want to level a class from scratch (1-90 is no joke) and are thrown off by the very active play style of Brewmaster, the spammy nature of Windwalker, and the whole healing in melee just kinda turns off a lot of dedicated healers. I can't see anything Blizzard doing changing those issues, as they are linked to the very play style of the classes. Balancing won't make it less active, less spammy, or less 'weird'.


    That said, I'd love fourth specs. If I could heal on my DK (Something like stealing the lifeforce/blood of your foes to heal your ally. Runic power bar becomes a stolen Blood/Life bar and you use it to heal. Runes are used to bigger heals/special heals/cooldowns. IDK, I'm spitballing here) I'd never play another class.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Satanous View Post
    No thanks, the killed my druid with a fourth spec don't wish that on others.
    Killed? Last I checked they were among the best PvP classes in the game. And for PvE who cares?

  4. #184
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    I don't see more classes as more compelling than giving more abilities to existing classes, and for that matter, pruning out unnecessary bloat from said classes.

    The former requires players to make new characters and potentially shelve old ones which is something that's going to get harder and harder with a very old game. It also means that developer/player attention has to be divided between increasing numbers of classes.

    The latter simply gives existing characters more uses/abilities.

  5. #185
    Ogres make more sense lore wise than Worgen did. Also they have some really great races that could join either side for reasons that are entirely in Blizzards hands.

    I'm personally still hoping for Murlocs (I love those little fucks) also especially Ogres make sense for the Horde.

    And to the topic with 4th spec, just no, it's faaaaaaaaaar too much work to balance a 4th spec for every existing class and i'm pretty certain they won't do it, it would be even more likely that they just change one of the existing specs of pure dps classes to either tank or heal, but i don't see that happening either tbh. The work involved with creating so many new specs is just too great for one expansion, even if they didn't do anything else.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 08:33 PM ----------

    Killed? Last I checked they were among the best PvP classes in the game. And for PvE who cares?
    Ignorance is bliss. There are more people playing PvE than PvP it really doesn't matter what your opinion on the value of either is. Numbers decide not you

    To the topic with the 4th spec on druid, I have a druid as my main as well and i don't see how they "ruined" the character.

  6. #186
    Its something I could see them doing, but its not something I see them doing all at once. I could see them adding one or two every expansion, especially the first time around to see how things go. You start with obvious ones imo ( Rogue Tanks, Petless Hunter, etc.) and see how things go and how the players react to them.

    They have said several times that they are unsure of turning every Pure class into a hybrid, so maybe you try both and see what happens. Maybe you do Warlock tanks and then the Hunter Ranger type thing and see how the players react. If suddenly everyone bails on Lock to go to Hunter, maybe there is something too the idea that certain players only want to play pures. However if its perceived positively and you see a growth in both classes, then maybe you keep going with it.

    I'm sure this 4th spec thing is something that been floating around at Blizzard far longer than it has in the player community, I guess its just a matter of what they feel like will be better for the long term profits, more new classes or extra specs for all classes. I can see the good and bad sides for both.

  7. #187
    I've always thought Rogues should have a ranged spec. Why should hunters only use bows, crossbows and guns? I guess you could give Hunters a Melee spec too. Shaman = Tank, Pallies - a proper shockadin spec, also a shield dps spec for warriors and pallies. Priests could learn a bit from monks and have a melee spec, Warlocks can get their Demon Tank, Mages - no idea (healing maybe?) and DKs some kind of Medium ranged aoe style disease ranged spec?

    Don't bother with Druids - they've got everything covered now.
    Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life.

  8. #188
    Stood in the Fire RyokuchaMidori's Avatar
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    Monks are not well represented because you have to level one from level one to level 90, instead of 55 to 80 in the case of DK.
    I think that would be the main reason.

    But here is the thing : in the next expansion, it is likely that we will get something big, either new races, or a new classe or both, in this discussion the possibility of 4th spec arises.
    I still think though that 4th spec is too much work, and that Blizz will have enough already in the next beta with the constant work that is required by the already existing 34 specs. Hence, a new class is more plausible, or even, just like in TBC an Cata, no new class at all.
    "Skill, as the world of warcraft goes, is only in question between equals in pvp power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

    Thucydides : " The Melian dialogue".

  9. #189
    Clearly, like the DK had low representation at the beginning of Wo... oh wait.

    Monks are under represented, because they aren't balanced... DKs got "balanced" in Cataclysm.
    DK's were a hero class, you could skip the classic content, and they were ridiculously op at the beginning and pretty much through most of wrath. Monks on the other hand are pretty mediocre and you have to play from lvl 1 (I guess they didn't want to make the new class op again) so you can't compare the 2. Also like someone mentioned the play style of monks feels weird which puts many people off. (I personally hate their spell animations as well)

  10. #190
    It's obviously coming, the new talent tree allows this kind of thing to happen, and as you say it rejuvenates interest in every class bar Druid. Druids will get some kind of overhaul, and possibly better customization for Boomkin form. The could possibly get another form too, would be great

  11. #191
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyokuchaMidori View Post
    Monks are not well represented because you have to level one from level one to level 90, instead of 55 to 80 in the case of DK.
    I think that would be the main reason.

    But here is the thing : in the next expansion, it is likely that we will get something big, either new races, or a new classe or both, in this discussion the possibility of 4th spec arises.
    I still think though that 4th spec is too much work, and that Blizz will have enough already in the next beta with the constant work that is required by the already existing 34 specs. Hence, a new class is more plausible, or even, just like in TBC an Cata, no new class at all.
    Even though there wasn't a new class in TBC and Cata, there were new races for both of those expansions.

    Which sort of leads me back to my original point; If races and classes were covered in MoP, what's left for the next expansion? My hunch is that Blizzard is looking at going a bit retro, and looking to spruce up the older races and classes in the next expansion. Instead of a new race and class, we get remodeled Vanilla and BC races, a spruced up game world (new NPC models, better textures, etc.), and 4th specs for each of the older classes. It makes sense, and depending on how its implemented, would be well received by the community, and may even bring back people who left WoW.

    It also goes well with WoW's 10th anniversary, which is when the next expansion will release.

    Another option could be a Warlock-style overhaul for each class. The only reason I don't see that happening is that it could alienate players when Blizzard is trying to keep subscriptions up.

  12. #192
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    They have said several times that they are unsure of turning every Pure class into a hybrid, so maybe you try both and see what happens. Maybe you do Warlock tanks and then the Hunter Ranger type thing and see how the players react. If suddenly everyone bails on Lock to go to Hunter, maybe there is something too the idea that certain players only want to play pures. However if its perceived positively and you see a growth in both classes, then maybe you keep going with it.

    I'm sure this 4th spec thing is something that been floating around at Blizzard far longer than it has in the player community, I guess its just a matter of what they feel like will be better for the long term profits, more new classes or extra specs for all classes. I can see the good and bad sides for both.
    Something leads me to believe if they give locks a fourth spec that:

    1) Most warlock players will stay warlock players.
    2) Some players may consider adding a warlock to their list of characters, or making it their main.
    3) Most warlock players will give tanking a try - even if it's just LFD or whatever.
    4) Most warlock players that have no desire to tank will see no pressure to tank and will continue playing on just as all DKs/warriors/etc. who do not have active tanking specs on their mains do.

    I actually think adding new roles to specs will help queue times more than adding new classes will and in fact is a significantly different change than just adding new classes.

    Unlike the latter, which requires players to actively (re)roll the class and re-level it, players will be more inclined to adding to what they play if their mains gain new role options, rather than just staying with what you played before. Not only that, but this assumes that people will specifically ditch pure classes for the new hybrid (remember queues work both ways, people have to start queuing as tanks/healers and stop queuing as DPS). In reality, adding a class that has all three roles available will do little to shift role % balance - think about it, and this becomes obvious.

    That said the biggest thing I have against just blindly adding roles is

    1) 11 new specs is a lot. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if only 1-3 classes get "special snowflake syndrome" and get a 4th role. Just like how everyone can reroll to a new class, so everyone can reroll to an existing class with a 4th role if they feel it's that big of a "special snowflake" deal. Personally, I think my paladin has enough roles (only all of them). I'd love to range-DPS if I could (trust me, I like range way, way better than melee), but I understand me switching to an alt to rDPS instead of mDPS (if I actually get to DPS in a raid at all) is less drastic than a pure who has to go on an alt to tank or heal at all.

    2) You can say "lock tank," "shaman tank," "rogue tank," "beastmaster/hunter tank," "battle mage tank," but if we do all of this, it doesn't actually solve queue problems. Now healers are the special snowflakes in LFD as well as LFR and DPS queue times don't really improve that much at all.

    And adding heal specs is a lot harder than arbitrarily coming up with half-baked tank specs.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-03-03 at 11:38 PM.

  13. #193
    Again with the demon hunter shit? didnt people get enough of that from diablo. I donno the whole illidan/demon hunter thing never really inspired me
    Wrath baby and proud of it

  14. #194
    Add 10 new specs to balance? Unlikely.

    Druid only got a 4th because it had *always* effectively had 4 and with bear gear now basically being the same thing as cat gear, they didn't want bear tanks having the advantage of being able to switch to DPS mode mid fight. Why would anyone ever take anything other than two bears to DPS check fights with a tank swap?

    I can't think of a reason to give any other class a 4th spec.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahFrigginBlah View Post
    i'll reply to this part alone, EVERY expansion has added new races and classes

    BC: dreani/blood elves. each faction now had shaman/pala
    Wrath: DK, no race but the class itself was a race of its own.
    Cata: goblin/worgen.

    in addition each expansion brought new professions
    what makes MOP so special that they cant create a new class/race for upcoming content???
    I've got a more interesting question. How can you spell Draenei so horribly wrong so long after TBC release? It's a mystery to everyone!

    On-topic: I think a fourth spec would be cool in many cases, although I think some classes would have problems making sense with it. Warrior: Ranged DPS spec using bows? I guess that *could* work. Death Knight: Ranged DPS as well, using.. spells?

    In other cases, like Shaman tank spec, I think it makes a good amount of sense.

    I also don't think there'd be a problem with making the fourth spec for them, since it's a big difference between making an entire new class and making three new specs for existing classes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 12:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by FragmentedFaith View Post
    Again with the demon hunter shit? didnt people get enough of that from diablo. I donno the whole illidan/demon hunter thing never really inspired me
    Pretty sure your signature explains it. Demon Hunter in D3 is not what a Demon Hunter is in Warcraft by any stretch except for the name.
    I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

  16. #196
    Wow... the amount of 'Druids already have four specs so they just get nothing' is just depressing. I guess you guys don't main Druids or just have some serious resentment issues over us getting 4 specs (that I'll point out the majority of us didn't even ask for).

    Giving every other class a 4th spec and totally ignoring Druids really wouldn't fly; well not unless Bliz wanted the majority of the class to either quit or reroll.

    @the clogging up the LFD queue
    If you want better queues for DPS they need to fix the incentives for healers and tanks to queue, not just add random healer/tank specs all over the place. For a start they need to fix being able to queue as a healer/tank while getting DPS rewards in LFR - me and my guildies would happily heal all of LFR if we could get DPS gear while healing - 5 min queue instead of 50? Yes please. But... we can't, so we're just adding to the DPS queue issue. Same with LFD - I won't tank or heal 5-mans because there is no incentive for me to do so; the bag is nowhere near a good enough incentive for me to put up with the aggro, so again I could tank or heal, but I'd rather 'clog up' your DPS queue because Bliz just doesn't make it worth my time to tank or heal for a random group. I do however feel for the pure DPS classes who get no say on what they can queue as - I've often joked with my friends about how this game has turned into World of Queuecraft as it seems I'm always semi-AFK in some LFR/LFD queue while minimized doing something else. It's definitely something that needs fixing, but I don't think adding more tank/heal specs would make much difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by b4dcrc View Post
    To the topic with the 4th spec on druid, I have a druid as my main as well and i don't see how they "ruined" the character.
    They might not have totally ruined it, but they certainly killed of my ability to run a Tank/Healer setup unless I never want to do any solo content; respeccing from Guardian to Resto all the time is a PitA - Want to buy a tri-spec already.

  17. #197
    Mechagnome Bad Ashe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noxiye View Post
    I've got a more interesting question. How can you spell Draenei so horribly wrong so long after TBC release? It's a mystery to everyone!
    haha, guess what server i played on for almost 7 years? Draenor... lol and i still always get that a and e backwards!

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    It's easier to have a new class than making 4th spec. Less Specs overall to balance, considering you need new spells for every spec, and a new class is far more enticing to pick up and play a new expansion than adding to what you already have.
    I think you're right, that a new class would be easier to implement than 10 new specs - but I don't think the difference is as large as you make it sound. First of all, we are looking at 3 specs opposed to 10 specs. But the 3 specs of a new class would require a lot of additional ground-up work that would need to be done. A new class would require a whole new set of talents and glyphs, but new 4th specs would only require tweaks. A new class would require an entirely new kit of baseline spells, but additional specs would build off of already implement class spells. For example, all warrior specs get Charge, so the 4th warrior spec would also get charge. A new class would need new 'class-wide' abilities built up from scratch.

    A new class with three specs would need a new resource system to be implemented and tested, like runes or chi. A 4th spec would not need this and would build off what is already working.

    Also, by not adding a new class, we keep tier and pvp sets at the status quo. Instead of having the art team build out one entirely new tier set for a new class, they can keep it at the current number and save a lot of work.
    Last edited by Anaximandar; 2013-03-04 at 03:59 PM. Reason: grammar

  19. #199
    Stood in the Fire Tuqui-tuqui's Avatar
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    This discussion keeps popping up and I think it's due to the introduction of lock tanking. But just like rogue tanking in tbc and wotlk it will probably be phased out. I wouldn't be surprised if DA is deliberately broken (or deleted) by Blizz by end of MoP. But, hey, if they do introduce lock tanking as a 4th spec then I want mage-healer (make my queues faster please!)
    I'm still thinking about it...


  20. #200
    I agree that they need to do something and don't think adding yet another race or new class will do the trick. I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of mechanism put in place to 'unlock' some special class abilities (like the supposed path of the titans they were working on a while back). I enjoy playing the game and all of the different classes and specs and can tell you that they do need to 'freshen' things up a bit. I won't be surprised if the talent system gets a complete overhaul again. I think that instead of adding a new race they'll just upgrade all of the current models. Oh well, 8 more months and I'm sure we'll hear about whats coming next (and hopefully whatever this Titan will be).

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