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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Thats another interesting fact. How come that when it comes to Mogu:

    -Zandalari Trolls, brutes and schemers, easily forged an alliance that survived over a 10000 years
    -Pandaren, calm and stoic - yet powerfull and experianced - somehow went from 0 to slave without any remarkable diplomatic approach?

    Guess that can count as another argument for "Pandaren were created by Mogu"
    I disagree. For one, we have no real information on the Pandaren other than at some point in ancient history they warned the night elves about the dangers of using the arcane and well of eternity, and they left supposedly to find another land when they wouldn't listen. I'll have to dig up the source on this if I can.

    Anyway, the Zandalari was a powerful nation, with many strong warriors and powerrful magics. That would be why the Mogu allied with them. Maybe they could have beaten them, but it would be a costly war.

    But the Pandaren? Considering that they didn't discover how to harness chi or fight as unarmed monks until they started their revolution, and the Shado-Pan wouldn't come until even later than that, I think it's fair to assume that the Pandaren were probably living as peaceful farmers etc, and thus were ripe for enslavement.

    There is still no evidence that the pandaren were created by the Mogu. And if they were like the Saurock and Grummles, why would that be an unrevealed secret when we've learned about the other races the Mogu made? The theory just doesn't hold water.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  2. #122
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    snip
    The trolls could still have lived on the planet before the Titans started terraforming it, it was most likely a very hostile world, but it would explain the trollish regeneration capabilities, those might have been necessary to survive in such a hostile environment.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2013-03-03 at 09:55 PM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The trolls could still have lived on the planet before the Titans started terraforming it, it was most likely a very hostile world, but it would explain the trollish regeneration capabilities, those might have been necessary to survive in such a hostile environment.
    Perhaps, but the Trolls can't live in a vacuum. They need an ecosystem to support them or they'd starve. And they had to evolve from something.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-03-03 at 10:02 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  4. #124
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Perhaps, but the Trolls can't live in a vacuum. They need an ecosystem to support them or they'd starve.
    Who is to say it was a vacuum, the titans changed the landscape and the atmosphere, they made the planet more hospital, but since blizzard said Trolls predate Titan arrival it means survival was possible, though it was most likely a very harsh environment.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2013-03-03 at 10:06 PM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  5. #125

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Who is to say it was a vacuum, the titans changed the landscape and the atmosphere, they made the planet more hospital, but since blizzard said Trolls predate Titan arrival it means survival was possibly, though it was most likely a very harsh environment.
    I know they said it, but it doesn't make sense and it's inconsistent. They clearly didn't plan out the prehistory of Azeroth very thoroughly. They're just scrambling to work the Old Gods in.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-03-03 at 10:11 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  7. #127
    wrathion definitely still has his fathers lingering evil.

  8. #128
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I know they said it, but it doesn't make sense and it's inconsistent.
    What isn't? Their timeline is a bloody mess and they do it on purpose^^

    They said Trolls predate the Titans so they do, the titans changed azeroth that much we know, but blizzard will change established lore in a heartbeat if it suits their needs, just look at the Draenei.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxxz1 View Post
    wrathion definitely still has his fathers lingering evil.
    Nope wrathion is entirely uncorrupted, he wants what is best for the world and that is not´necessarily good for the horde or alliance.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    So, the thing is: Pandaren are a Mogu creation as well. Just like they flesh-shaped lizards to create Saurok, they did this to some pandas and we all see the resoults. Pandaren were not enslaved - it was a race that was created to be slaves. A bit like machines, created to serve, but somehow managing to regain free will and breaking their chains. Similiar to the Terminator series? A bit, I guess.
    If that's so, where are the pandas? Grummles were made from Troggs. Saurok from basilisks and raptors. Jinyu from Murlocs. Hozen from apes. So, where are the pandas? The giant, bear-like ones? Don't tell me Pandaren were made from raccoon critter battle pets.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    If that's so, where are the pandas? Grummles were made from Troggs. Saurok from basilisks and raptors. Jinyu from Murlocs. Hozen from apes. So, where are the pandas? The giant, bear-like ones? Don't tell me Pandaren were made from raccoon critter battle pets.
    Blizzard hasn't given us information on what pandaren culture was like before they were enslaved, and so some people speculate that the Pandaren were created by the Mogu. Speculation is fair, but it's annoying when people assert it as fact when really there's no evidence of it.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Blizzard hasn't given us information on what pandaren culture was like before they were enslaved, and so some people speculate that the Pandaren were created by the Mogu.
    Pandaren were not created by the Mogu, as Lei Shen enslaved the Pandaren and before Lei Shen the Mogu lacked to power to create anything as Ra-den had very much power over his own blood and the Engine of Nalak'sha.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


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  12. #132
    Mechagnome Weirdbear's Avatar
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    I've always thought Pandaren to be furbolgs that evolved in a different direction then the normal ones.

    Haven't Blizzard said that Pandaren participated in the war of the Ancients? Were they liberated from the mogu then or were they enslaved after the big sundering?

  13. #133
    The Mogu no longer serve their current function, their current state makes them our enemy. Deathwing was created as a guardian and protector as well, look how that turned out.

  14. #134
    They didn't participate in the war of the ancients. But the pandaren emperor foresaw what was coming and sealed off Pandaria to protect it from the Sundering.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  15. #135
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    The current evidence shows that Pandaren are most likely one of the native races of Azeroth instead of being engineered by another intelligent life-form.

    Still, even of the Pandaren were a Mogu creation that rebelled, it doesn't make the Mogu the "good guys"; for one, Even if they are creations of the titans, they seem to have gone REALLY our of script after they were abandoned. I mean, it's kinda sad that the mogu become so purposeless and lost, but they seriously took the wrong turn by becoming warring tyrannical slavers. They can say all they want that they are merely following the titans instructions, but their "prime directive" is nothing but a perversion of their original programming; once they gained free will, things went to the crapper.

  16. #136
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Mogu's blatant dismissal of the rights of anyone else makes them very much 'the bad guys' here.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  17. #137
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I know they said it, but it doesn't make sense and it's inconsistent. They clearly didn't plan out the prehistory of Azeroth very thoroughly. They're just scrambling to work the Old Gods in.

    "Primordial landscape" doesn't mean Azeroth was a vacuum or completely uninhabitable, it's just Blizzard being fancy with their words. Seeing as the only (known) sentient inhabitants were the Trolls, Aqir, faceless, and old gods, the place was probably very rough around the edges. Hence "primordial."

    In the same way that "age" doesn't definitively denote any specific amount of time, it's just another way of saying "a really long time."


    -At some long-gone time, the Old gods were tearing up Azeroth

    -titans show up at a slightly less long-gone time and beat down the old gods

    -The titans terraformed Azeroth at some unknown point in the past after that.

    -The curse of flesh happens. The ONLY estimate we have as to when the curse of flesh happened comes from Thoralius the wise, who says that the visions Alliance players have of the Vrykul with their human child dates back 15,000 years.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Krazus View Post
    The Mogu no longer serve their current function, their current state makes them our enemy. Deathwing was created as a guardian and protector as well, look how that turned out.
    Honestly even if they were still serving the Titan's will, that wouldn't change anything.
    It's not like the Titans and the mortal races of Azeroth are on good terms or are allies.
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it. -Boubouille

  19. #139
    Ever since wotlk I've been sad about not being able to choose sides

  20. #140
    Stood in the Fire Durenek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivin View Post
    pigs aren't sentient. That's where i, personally, draw the line. If pigs someday gain sentience then i'd be against using them as food too.
    but they're so tasty
    Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

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