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  1. #21
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    I think trash just needs to be more unique. Instead of standard "tank AoE the mobs, DPS AoE the mobs, Healers heal the tank." Like the mages from Well of Eternity that created copies of you.

  2. #22
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    [CC] Made things seem less mindless as well.
    Agreed. But lets face it: Back then we used to run with a few select individuals from our friend lists and randoms that gimped to much were known "to be avoided" on your server.

    Now, you can't even choose the peeps anymore because of LFD, unless you go in on a guild run.

    Difficult trash = fun with friends, but = horror with stupid random facerollers.

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  3. #23
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bionics View Post
    I remember when CC was the requisite for instances, even on trash pulls. Although I enjoy that instances go by much faster today (30 minutes for a Heroic Scholomance now as opposed to what could be an hour to 2 hours in the past), I do think that the "great" mages separated themselves from the merely average ones by being able to CC and damage with high efficiency. Made things seem less mindless as well.
    CCs were shorter back then too, weren't they? At least, I know that Freezing Trap only lasted 20 seconds. So there was at least a tiny bit more thought involved.

    At the same time, all CC does is put enemies out of combat. As I've said in the past, why have those mobs in the pulls at all if the design is that they end up not participating until everything else is dead? It just adds annoyance for no real gain. I would rather have trash with interesting mechanics than trash that's only hard because there's too many of them per pull.

  4. #24
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Yes trash isn't meant to be extreme fun, but it would still make sense for them to have some special feats or abilities. At least make it semi interesting

  5. #25
    I liked the jumping mechanic back in The Stonecore. Latency kills fun, it seems.

  6. #26
    Stood in the Fire RyokuchaMidori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    The problem with harder trash, like the BC or early Cataclysm trash, is that CC becomes required. CC is boring, and it often causes problems.

    When I think of "interesting" trash, Well of Eternity is what comes to mind. It wasn't difficult, but there was enough variation in the mechanics of the pulls to keep it interesting. (At least as a tank--maybe less so for other roles.)
    A dps can :
    1: focus fire
    2: aoe
    3: interrupt a spell, or use any kind of CC before or during the pull.

    As far as I'm concerned i like having to use most of my abilities and not just dps one, be it something as simple as disarm, or even things like dispell and spellsteal ...

    And that's why I've enjoyed so much playing Warrior tank in early cata : with shockwave, concussion blow, intimidating shout (glyphes so that mobs don't run away pulling other mobs), shield bash, heroic throw silence (gag order, talent), disarm, spell reflect ; i had so many ways of controlling mobs and actively reduce incoming damage that it made the game much better for me.

    So for me, any mechanics that would make me use the full set of my abilities, on trash or boss, are most definitely good.

    But I guess CC is boring or is not boring, is only a matter of opinion, that being said adding CC a bit can only be good for this game.

    As far as I'm concerned, Well of Eternity was way way way too easy an instance, probably the most easiest instance ever created in wow.
    Last edited by RyokuchaMidori; 2013-03-03 at 01:20 PM.
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  7. #27
    Pit Lord aztr0's Avatar
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    Trash can never be fun.

  8. #28
    Huge AoE pulls are fun. Mini-Bosses are fun. Little 3 mob groups are stupid and that's all they seem to be adding. I tend to make my own fun by pulling big.

  9. #29
    Brewmaster Orangetai420's Avatar
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    I would rather have 1-2 really tough trash packs in between bosses than a bunch of annoying mobs.

    Make us CC and focus fire again! AoEing everything down isn't fun.
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  10. #30
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sj View Post
    Adding "mini-bosses" like we saw in ICC would be a good idea. It broke up the monotony of pack after pack of trash.
    I would agree with something like this. As long as they dont add stuff like the *shudder* ultraxion trash, that was a giant pain in the ass.
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  11. #31
    Moderator Sj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0sanac View Post
    I would agree with something like this. As long as they dont add stuff like the *shudder* ultraxion trash, that was a giant pain in the ass.
    Crap like that wasn't even close to fun. Only trash that was more annoying imo was the orc village trash in Hyjal.

  12. #32
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sj View Post
    Crap like that wasn't even close to fun. Only trash that was more annoying imo was the orc village trash in Hyjal.
    Yeah I have to agree there, it was even more infuriating being a melee trying to hit the damn things.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Yes trash isn't meant to be extreme fun, but it would still make sense for them to have some special feats or abilities. At least make it semi interesting
    Abilitties are fun, the thing is that trash have the same ability as boss seems like cheap "preview" of boss mechanic (blade lord trash). Trash should have different mechanic than boss and that will keep it interesting more thanUlduar trash, Ambershaper trash). "trahs have only one of this mechanic (scaled lower) and the boss have all of them."

  14. #34
    trash are called that way because they mean nothing, and i don't know what game the op intend but in all the games i've tried trash are always a pain in the ass. How you can make them fun? simple you need to make them relevant in the progression, unique abilities, scripted event that make them less predictable and a serious loot table etc. But at this point the cease to being trash and become bosses, also "fun" is a word extremely subjective what is fun for you can become a serious pain for me.
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

  15. #35
    I think Hyjal had the best trash. Interesting waves that felt like a real battle, since they came from multiple directions, had tons of AOE and also some stronger adds, and was just very good for immersion. Trash like Mogu'shan vaults and Heart of Fear makes no sense. I'd expect charging into a bug stronghold we'd be met by waves and waves of weak little bug soldiers, not like three waves of big bugs that can one-shot tanks if you're not careful.

    Basically, make trash more interesting by making it story-related, a part of the instance itself. Waves of annoying trash that require actual execution to down isn't fun for anyone. It's already a lot to ask most people to focus on the boss fights themselves, let alone the trash in between.

  16. #36
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyokuchaMidori View Post
    As far as I'm concerned i like having to use most of my abilities and not just dps one, be it something as simple as disarm, or even things like dispell and spellsteal ...

    And that's why I've enjoyed so much playing Warrior tank in early cata : with shockwave, concussion blow, intimidating shout (glyphes so that mobs don't run away pulling other mobs), shield bash, heroic throw silence (gag order, talent), disarm, spell reflect ; i had so many ways of controlling mobs and actively reduce incoming damage that it made the game much better for me.

    So for me, any mechanics that would make me use the full set of my abilities, on trash or boss, are most definitely good.

    But I guess CC is boring or is not boring, is only a matter of opinion, that being said adding CC a bit can only be good for this game.

    As far as I'm concerned, Well of Eternity was way way way too easy an instance, probably the most easiest instance ever created in wow.
    I was referring to long-term CCs, i.e. Polymorph, Freezing Trap, Sap, etc. Stuns, silences, disarms, etc. are great, as long as they're not required.

    Well of Eternity was easy because you were good at managing mechanics. It had a lot of nasty mechanics, but they were avoidable/interruptable/stunnable. That's what I like: you play well, you trivialize it, not the sort of "you play well but it blows you up anyway unless you CC something" we had in early Cataclysm.

  17. #37
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndra View Post
    the only problem i see here is "WTB group for mob farming". people would game it to such way out of control proportions unless you add in some restrictions... then you are back to reward vs effort. finding the balance is the key.
    Put those trash mobs after a couple of bosses and people cant reach them without getting saved, would solve the farming bit of the issue as people would need to get saved to the instance in order to do this.

  18. #38
    Stood in the Fire SaltLakeAtrocity's Avatar
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    Why is instance farming so evil? I see no one really backing up this idea. If mobs are being farmed, that means there's some kind of drive to make them interesting; be that a rewards system.

    I agree that trash is necessary to make an instance feel like a story is actually taking place. I would not support means of just removing all trash.

    But as of now, the funnest trash packs in wow are the ones with no trash packs. It doesn't matter what random mechanics you add to them, they're not fun. And I really think the best hypothesis for why this is is because they're lateral stagnant progression in a game built upon forward progression. The only moment you're not feeling like you're going anywhere is fighting trash. If you added a kind of currency to them, even if something only transmog gear could be bought with or something, you'd engage people into the process alot more. And sure, you'd get people farming trash packs. But you'd rather fight boring, colorless trash packs year after year than let someone farm trash packs for transmog gear??
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndra View Post
    the only problem i see here is "WTB group for mob farming". people would game it to such way out of control proportions unless you add in some restrictions... then you are back to reward vs effort. finding the balance is the key.
    Then what about having the first boss before the "more fun trash" so that people need to be saved in order to take down said trash?

  20. #40
    Moderator Sj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by critterkiller View Post
    Then what about having the first boss before the "more fun trash" so that people need to be saved in order to take down said trash?
    Simple yet effective.

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