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  1. #41
    Back in Firelands with my former guild i raided 4 hrs a week and cleared 6/7 H, In DS we raided 6hrs and cleared 8/8H, i know it was easy but still. There are numerous guilds that raid 8-9hrs a week, which i still consider casual and are able to clear most if not all heroic content. So yeah..stop throwing the word causal as an excuse as you have other problems as to why you can't clear content.

  2. #42
    The delay is because LFR content doesn't stay fresh very long. If you meet the entry requirements, you can clear it fairly easily the first week it's available. That clear may be fun the first week it's available, but may be less fun the twentieth. Meanwhile, normal modes take longer to clear and heroic modes take even longer. Most raiding guilds need several months at least to get the most they can out of a tier. Blizzard probably couldn't release content fast enough to keep a current fresh-feeling raid available in LFR even if it tried, and even if it could that wouldn't be fair to raiding guilds that need more time to get what they can out of content.

    Ideally Blizzard shouldn't have LFR set up as the sole end game PvE progression path for non-raiders, and should do more with five mans or solo content to give non-raiders something to do. But since they haven't figured out how to make good five man and solo end game content, serious LFR gating is the next best thing to keep non-raiders entertained.

  3. #43
    The schedule they just announced is, in my opinion, great. The only people who will be frustrated by it are:

    * People who are aggressively using LFR to supplement their normal mode gear
    * People who want to do all the content this week

    For a variety of reasons, neither group should get what it wants.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 08:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maleric View Post
    Ideally Blizzard shouldn't have LFR set up as the sole end game PvE progression path for non-raiders, and should do more with five mans or solo content to give non-raiders something to do. But since they haven't figured out how to make good five man and solo end game content, serious LFR gating is the next best thing to keep non-raiders entertained.
    There should be something that encourages raid geared players to queue for 5-mans. But at this point there isn't.

    As (mostly) a healer when I think about queuing for 5-mans I think ... will there be some pleasant, experienced players? And right now the answer is "um, no."

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    The schedule they just announced is, in my opinion, great. The only people who will be frustrated by it are:

    * People who are aggressively using LFR to supplement their normal mode gear
    * People who want to do all the content this week

    For a variety of reasons, neither group should get what it wants.
    Exactly. They're not really worried about casuals clearing in a week, they're worried about raiding guilds this close to beating a normal boss running LFR to get the gear to push them over the top. This way the content lasts longer for them, and most LFR players will hardly even notice, except having to wait a little bit to get started at all.

  5. #45
    The Lightbringer SL1200's Avatar
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    I was excited about getting new lfr content, the delay makes me sad.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Wafffles View Post
    Exactly. They're not really worried about casuals clearing in a week, they're worried about raiding guilds this close to beating a normal boss running LFR to get the gear to push them over the top. This way the content lasts longer for them, and most LFR players will hardly even notice, except having to wait a little bit to get started at all.
    Right.

    The real target audience for LFR is probably not at ilevel 480 yet anyway.

    And the 2-week opening schedule does a good job of approximating what a casual normal mode guild would be doing.

    I know the gating schedule is kind of artificial, and the first 30 seconds I read about it the LFR "raider" in me was annoyed, but then I realized that it would be like opening up a quest chain over a period of weeks, except I didn't have to actually do the quests. Or, in other words, like getting a "YOU WIN" letter in the mail every 2 weeks. So, after slogging through Molten Front, I am all for that.

  7. #47
    I'm sure artificially gating lfr with no real new content beyond "do more dailies" between the wait will in no way have a negative impact, we all know just how much people enjoy those dailies

    I think that your post strikes at the heart of the issue very well. Lei Shen is a real monster, and we want his encounter to feel climactic
    who the fyling fuck gives a shit? it's a boss that was a non entity in the lore until 2 months ago do they really think people give a shit about the thunder king? god what a shitty excuse, should at least just say that they want the special snowflakes to feel special a little while longer

    Don't be so rude and get your facts correct. -Azshira
    Last edited by Azshira; 2013-03-05 at 06:10 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    I'm sure artificially gating lfr with no real new content beyond "do more dailies" between the wait will in no way have a negative impact, we all know just how much people enjoy those dailies


    who the flying fuck gives a shit? it's a boss that was a non entity in the lore until 2 months ago do they really think people give a shit about the thunder king? god what a shitty excuse, should at least just say that they want the special snowflakes to feel special a little while longer
    the only way they could make us feel special again is go back to PRE DS where casuals had to do content 2 tiers after us.... LFR ruined anything special. We only play for the spirit of competition now.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    I'm sure artificially gating lfr with no real new content beyond "do more dailies" between the wait will in no way have a negative impact, we all know just how much people enjoy those dailies
    Gating LFR is bad? So Burning Crusade, the so-called pinnacle of WoW was also bad! Remember the time when you had to do attunements for raid, sh*t even for heroic dungeons? Remember the times you had only one chance per boss per day instead of using the non-existing dungeon finder 30 times a day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    who the fyling fuck gives a shit? it's a boss that was a non entity in the lore until 2 months ago do they really think people give a shit about the thunder king? god what a shitty excuse, should at least just say that they want the special snowflakes to feel special a little while longer
    Have you ever quested in Kun-Lai Summit and read the quest description? If yes, you would know Lei Shen from the very beginning of Mists. They introduced the boss at the launch of the expansion. And Blizzard explained that it was the time to write new lore and create new masterminds. So what's your problem?

  10. #50
    I was laughing too hard while reading this, are you actually serious?

  11. #51
    I'll admit, I was annoyed when I read the release schedule, however a few things have change my mind.

    First Blizzard's reasoning makes a lot of sense. End bosses on normal/heroic have an intangible quality taken away when you have killed them several times on LFR beforehand - gating LFR to prevent this for a few weeks seemse ok.

    Second, and in many ways more important, there is a ton of loot to be had in the first few wings. As a DK, I'm counting 3 or more upgrades on at least 2 bosses in the first wing alone. There are multiple trinkets for everyone, tier gloves, weapons, and lots of armor - and that's just the first three bosses.

    With everything else that's coming out, I think there will be plenty to do other than rushing to Lei Shen.

  12. #52
    As far as I know, heroic modes are also delayed by one week and nobody is complaining.. and I can tell you it will take a lot more than 6 weeks for most of us heroic raiders to "see the content".
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    I'm sure artificially gating lfr with no real new content beyond "do more dailies" between the wait will in no way have a negative impact, we all know just how much people enjoy those dailies


    who the fyling fuck gives a shit? it's a boss that was a non entity in the lore until 2 months ago do they really think people give a shit about the thunder king? god what a shitty excuse, should at least just say that they want the special snowflakes to feel special a little while longer
    This game basically has 4 types of content: casual pve content (everything but real raids and challenge modes), challenging pve content (real raids and challenge modes), casual pvp content (bg's), and competitive pvp content (rbg and arena). So yeah, they do kind of expect the people that play for pve but not the challenging pve content to also be interested in the dailies and the scenarios while they wait for their LFR stuff.

    While not new content, they have given you a new reason to go and do 5.0 lfr in that they are upping drop rates on the old lfr stuff when 5.2 hits.

    Also, killing the exact same damn boss on a harder difficulty is not a brand new experience. So yeah, what GC said, it won't feel as awesome when you down him on normal if you have already killed him for 2 months on LFR.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by spizzbool View Post
    Having to wait 1 or 2 months (depending on if the patch schedule is LFR section release every 1 or 2 weeks) for all the LFRs to unlock is just crappy for casual raiders who only get like 6 hours or so a week. I'm not sure it's possible for those types of guilds to exist anymore. Those type of players really don't get an extreme amount of time to play so they need all the LFR upgrades they can get to chop down normal modes. Does this mean that these types of players should just wait a few months after the patch is out to re-sub? My personal opinion is: yes.
    Why quit and come back? Between T14 vp gear and gear from T14 raids, that should more than enough for normal Thrones progression. You don't need T14-LFR to enter T14-normal. I'm sure upgrades from Thrones will help, but I'll go with what I said. It's minor stat upgrades. (=

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by katji View Post
    Why quit and come back? Between T14 vp gear and gear from T14 raids, that should more than enough for normal Thrones progression. You don't need T14-LFR to enter T14-normal. I'm sure upgrades from Thrones will help, but I'll go with what I said. It's minor stat upgrades. (=
    Good point. He might as well quit till the end of the expansion and then come back, or better yet, come back next expansion when he is 5 levels higher. I mean that is really all the same thing: quitting to come back when some other factor has made the t15 normal mode raids easier.

  16. #56
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    some people just have to cry and complain, no matter what.

    It is perfectly fine to have LFR delayed the way it gets delayed. No one is get to see content later than the other guys over there at the rather serious raiding camp.
    While LFR "raiders" are running around doing dailies, doing the old LFRs for Valor, and having fun with this and that, the serious raiders bang their heads against the walls in normal mode. Then comes the day and LFR gets unlocked, and bam... In about an hour the LFR community is catching up with the other camp, and gets exactly as far as they are. That's pretty much how it's gonna be...

    But I guess, some people who cannot, or don't want to raid on serious levels aren't happy with the opportunity Blizzard gave them. No, they want more..
    Seeing the content maybe a week later than the higher difficulty raiders is not okay. But seeing it BEFORE them, that would for sure be okay.
    Hypocrisy...

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    But I guess, some people who cannot, or don't want to raid on serious levels aren't happy with the opportunity Blizzard gave them. No, they want more..
    Seeing the content maybe a week later than the higher difficulty raiders is not okay. But seeing it BEFORE them, that would for sure be okay.
    Hypocrisy...
    Blizzard is paying the raiding snowflakes a lot of attention in this expansion. Bear in mind this is a few percent of the player population. I don't have any problem with Blizzard continuing to try to please raiders, but the raiding community needs to figure out how to be more inclusive, not less.

  18. #58
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    I would consider "casual raiders" as a term that applies to... actual raiders. People that join up in raid groups, manually travel to the raid, and then defeat the bosses on at least normal difficulty. The "casual" part denotes that they do not raid on a scheduled basis, as they have prior commitments, or what have you, and instead eek out normal mode raids in PuGs/alt runs/etc.

    I would not consider someone that runs LFR exclusively to be a "casual raider." At least, I certainly don't consider myself to be, and as of recently LFR is generally the most "raiding" I do.

    I suppose if you wanted to be myopically literal about it then yes, LFR does occur in a "raid group," but raiding usually has a sense of preparation, accomplishment, overcoming challenges, and camaraderie... beyond someone deciding to plop down a spare feast and the occasional random person you strike up a conversation with, LFR does not have these things.

    And I don't really run LFR for fun; it's to see the content and, after that, to get a gear level satisfactory enough so that I may be able to ingratiate myself into a real PuG run at some point in the future.


    And that being said, I don't particularly care if they delay the LFR schedule. It's not content I consider "fun and entertaining" beyond the first couple runs when you're buckling down to learn the various quirks. The first week's delay is likely so that Normal mode progression raiders don't get all bitchy that "OMG LFR BABIES CAN SEE CONTENT FIRST!!!11!! QQQ BLIZZ CASUAL!" The delays after that are likely so that people don't burn themselves out by instantly running all of the wings, with nothing to look forward to in the coming weeks than running them all over again for vain shots at gear in largely silent LFR slogs.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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  19. #59
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    LFR - intended for those who don't raid normal mode.
    Normal - intended for most people.
    Heroic - intended for people who like a challange and invest a lot of time in the game.


    You're crying because you're not good enough / not putting down enough time to get through normal without the gear aid from LFR? Honestly yes, quit the game and resub never...

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    It is perfectly fine to have LFR delayed the way it gets delayed. No one is get to see content later than the other guys over there at the rather serious raiding camp.
    Uh, what? You make it sound as if it was some kind of punishment. I'd say it's their own "fault"? I don't see what's stopping anyone from doing LFR (or normal mode, for that matter) to "see the content".

    While LFR "raiders" are running around doing dailies, doing the old LFRs for Valor, and having fun with this and that, the serious raiders bang their heads against the walls in normal mode.
    Oooh, those poor little things. That's the price of being the elite. The rest of the world is running around, having fun, while you're ... not having fun?..

    Wow, dude, who hurt you that much?

    Do you even realize the ridiculousness of that whole post? For the record, I don't have any problem whatsoever with LFR being delayed or anything. I actually rather welcome it. I just find it unbelievably funny that you started your post with
    some people just have to cry and complain, no matter what
    , and then proceeded to write this hilariously lachrymose lament about the hard, hard, unforgiving life of the serious raider. Nobody knows the trouble you see. Wow. Just wow.

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