Do you think Blizzard is taking the right approach with T15?

[Destil]

Hey guys, I was curious if you agree with the approach Blizzard is taking with Tier 15.

I ask because, a lot of you seemed to think T14 was overtuned, and felt that LFR was absolutely required for a Normal Raider to do.

According to GC, T15 fights are focusing more on Mechanics than being DPS checks like Garalon.

Not just that, but the wings for LFR for T15 is being staggered so that Normal Mode raiders don't feel required to snag the iLevel 502 gear from there, in case they have 496 gear from T14.

And, of course, T15 has one massive raid, instead of the former small tiers with Cataclysm.

So what do you guys think? Is the difficulty approach, along with their new philosophy with LFR, a good one so that more Hardcore raiders won't feel required to run LFR? And what about large raids pretty much being back?

[parlaa]

I don't think T14 was overtuned at all, rather have a challenge than having another Naxxramas25 situation.

I'd rather say that LFR gear is overtuned, and I disliked the fact that I had to run it for a few weeks to get upgrades.

[zuluslayer]

Everything that moves away from casualization is a step in the right direction.

[Varabently]

Focussing on mechanics is stupid IMO. Doesn't prove you know how to play your class and is gear dependent. "Dancing" with the boss is stupid IMO.

[Sinndra]

dps/gear check fights are not fun. interesting mechanics are. at least to a point.. sometimes it is fun to see the beserk timer screaming at you, and seeing the boss's health SLOWLY ticking down.. 10.. 9.. 8.. *c'mon just 2.6% more (mashes buttons harder) C'MON!!!* YES!!! i mean see? that kinda gets a tingly feeling. but too many of those "checks" just feel tired. i havent tried these fights out, but im at least very excited about it. i did enjoy t14 so far. not so much the yucky bug raid, but at least i had two other raids for scenic changes.

having the mechanics of a fight nailed down, but failing to soft enrages/beserk timers because of bad luck with loot drops is just very heart breaking.

i do think t15 could be amazing, time will tell, ask this question in 2 months

[Sidegrade]

As long as the gear that drops in lfr is slightly better than what you are already wearing, lfr will always feel like a requirement.
I don't think it's a bad thing either, progressing raiders should have no issue with doing a single lfr raid once per week.

The thing that bothers me however is that the LFR raid of any given tier should not be a replica of a Current tier raid, it should be a different raid that ties in to the overall story of the main raid and it should be required as an attunment process for the main raid.
(I say that because once you clear a raid on lfr their is no real incentive other than gear to ever step foot in normal mode because it does not progress the story arc)

---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 04:43 PM ----------

dps/gear check fights are not fun. interesting mechanics are. at least to a point.. sometimes it is fun to see the beserk timer screaming at you, and seeing the boss's health SLOWLY ticking down.. 10.. 9.. 8.. *c'mon just 2.6% more (mashes buttons harder) C'MON!!!* YES!!! i mean see? that kinda gets a tingly feeling. but too many of those "checks" just feel tired. i havent tried these fights out, but im at least very excited about it. i did enjoy t14 so far. not so much the yucky bug raid, but at least i had two other raids for scenic changes.

having the mechanics of a fight nailed down, but failing to soft enrages/beserk timers because of bad luck with loot drops is just very heart breaking.

i do think t15 could be amazing, time will tell, ask this question in 2 months

I think those fights are more or less about making melee specs feel more valuable in an environment that would otherwise favor casters.

[Dzudzadzo]

Learning one dance on one boss doesnt make you any better on another boss. Learning to execute your rotation as good as you can make you execute the same rotation on next boss just as well. Now I'm not saying that we should go Patchwerk as it is insisted in the interview, but I also dont think we should go "ok everyone before we fight this boss lets study horeography for few nights with him".

I think a healthy middle ground would be boss mechanics that every class/specc can deal with it in their own way without requiring specific raid compositions because given enocunter is designed that way.

[Rorschachs]

I hate the choose reputation thing on the LFD screen.. I hope they can add something new to the game that adds a little grouping up so things like dailies and dungeons become little burdens (actually not even that, dailies are kinda fun when I don't need to do them for valor items.)

The raid is cool though. And they are making the normal mode easier, thats a good thing for the game as long as heroics aren't easy as well.

[mysticx]

Depending on the truth in the "One wing per 'couple of weeks'"-rumour, Blizz are either doing decently and messing it up, multiple weeks between LFR-wings, angering loads of LFR-heroes just so a few raiders won't feel obligated to run LFR just seems like a horrendously bad idea IMO, raiders will do any crazy thing for any minute boost, heck, if Elitistjerks says stabbing yourself in the 'nads with a fork while playing gives a 5 DPS boost, they'll be getting the cutlery out right now...

[smif]

i prefer short enrage with mechanics....

Garalon can die in a fire. worst fight i've ever seen, so boring i hate it.

guy that came up with the idea for that boss should be fired.

[OmniSkribe]

Focussing on mechanics is stupid IMO. Doesn't prove you know how to play your class and is gear dependent. "Dancing" with the boss is stupid IMO.

Sorry what? And stading in one place and pushing 2-5 buttons is so much for "prove you know how to play your class" and not "gear dependent"?

[Sinndra]

I think those fights are more or less about making melee specs feel more valuable in an environment that would otherwise favor casters.

oh yah i can totally see your point. and thats fine. but if mechanics are introduced to specifically be for melee so that they are useful, then everybody feels they contribute their share to the kill. and thats the feeling i hope to see in t15.

its not fun to say dang, sorry guys, my dps coulda been better but i had to run across the room every 3 secs to deal with an add. or whatever.. im sure you know what i mean.

[Synthaxx]

Focussing on mechanics is stupid IMO. Doesn't prove you know how to play your class and is gear dependent. "Dancing" with the boss is stupid IMO.

I think you've got that the wrong way around. Mechanics are a test of a players ability to react and adapt. DPS-based enrages are a test of players skill with their class abilities. Both are important to make sure you get good all-round players. Some will excel at mechanics while others excel at DPS. Most are in the middle. DPS based fights test gear in addition to skill, but they don't test reactions. Mechanics based fights test reactions but not gear. Main point is that it's possible to take someone who's perhaps lacking a bit of gear into a mechanic fight. This is good for guilds as it allows healthy rotations of players, and opens up the possibility to swap players in or out (or for someone to cover if a regular isn't available).

Patchwerk was a test that players could pull off fairly flawless rotations. Illidan was a test of players being able to adapt to the mechanics through various phases. Each fight was on the opposite end of the other. Fights like some of the Heroic Firelands bosses were in the middle (the Druid guy for example - unless your raid had a prot Paladin and could cheese it). Point is that neither type of fight is stupid and both are needed to teach players the value of both sides. You don't get good players by focusing on DPS races for the entire life of your game. You also don't get good players by focusing entirely on mechanics. You need a mix.

Maybe T14 normal was overtuned. I wouldn't know for sure since I'm just an LFR hero. If the enrages were tight if it was just a standalone fight, then adding in mechanics is just going to make it an unfair proposition. Since it was the first tier of the expansion and thus there was a real possibility of people being in blues for the first few weeks, it just adds to the pressure on guilds. If they keep failing on the same boss, it can often lead to people stopping raiding for a while due to burnout, even if it's the fault of the tuning and not of the players.

So, you've got to have a balance of both. Blizzard have opted to go to the extreme end of the scale this time around (at least judging by their comments) and so I'd expect DPS-checks to be more of a focus in the tier after 5.2.

[Granyala]

I don't think T14 was overtuned at all, rather have a challenge than having another Naxxramas25 situation.

I'd rather say that LFR gear is overtuned, and I disliked the fact that I had to run it for a few weeks to get upgrades.

I'd second that. Feels cool to have challenging normals again.
Personally I don't consider myself hardcore enough to force myself to run LFR every week. When a guild group forms, I tag along, since doing BS in those raids is quite fun, if not.. meh.

Maybe T14 normal was overtuned.

Elegon was mean. Took us a few weeks to gather up enough epixx for that one.
Garalon enrage pre nerf was overtuned. But they fixed that WAAY before the intended players even reached him.
The rest of T14 was pretty smooth sailing with 1-2 new bosses per ID. (We raid 3days @ 3hrs)

If my crappy Guild (we're now at 6/16HC, me thinks) then it can't be overtuned.

[Valium104]

I just hope it's harder than T14. I shouldn't have even single boss on heroic, but with my casual play im 12/16 hc.

[Shadee]

You should have to do high DPS and know the mechanics. This game is becoming more and more fisher price all the time.

[Csnyder]

I don't think T14 was overtuned at all, rather have a challenge than having another Naxxramas25 situation.

I'd rather say that LFR gear is overtuned, and I disliked the fact that I had to run it for a few weeks to get upgrades.

no one ever said you had to run lfr, it was never forced at all

---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 12:13 PM ----------

I think raiding should be about mechanics to weed out the stand in fire mentality you have in lfr. The top raiding guilds clear content based on ability to avoid mechanics and they do so with gear from the previous tier. IMO we need mechanics that will wipe whole raids to force those who cant play well to stay out of raids except lfr and then pugs will be a lot better. I do not like raids being so damn easy, thats what lfr is for.

[nemro82]

I just hope it's harder than T14. I shouldn't have even single boss on heroic, but with my casual play im 12/16 hc.

lol yeah sure, casual as hell.
I think 7/16 is something that medicore guild achieved this tier if you doing 12/16 hc you must be doing 25 man and just being boosted through it by much better players then you feel you are.

[Mall Security]

Focussing on mechanics is stupid IMO. Doesn't prove you know how to play your class and is gear dependent. "Dancing" with the boss is stupid IMO.

Couldn't agree more.


I also think it generally tends to cheapen the experience. Over all, which is why soon i imagine class roles like healing and tank will be obsolete.

[nemro82]

I don't mind some gear checks tbh.