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  1. #61
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Deciding to do something easy to set up, and not to do something very difficult to set up, doesn't make your decision a lazy one.
    Deciding to do something easy, and not do something very difficult, makes your decision a lazy one.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinxz View Post
    It is not an exploit however it is disgusting behavior from your premade and if I ever got into a BG with people like you, I'd have my entire friend list and whole guild mass report you for griefing which is a bannable offense, might want to stop or you guys might see the ban hammer hit you.
    Yes, mass reporting from people who it did not happen to is a good way to be actioned. Unfortunately, what the premades are doing is not something that is actionable, since being a jerk is not against the rules.
    when all else fails, read the STICKIES.

  3. #63
    Are you queuing up just as one faction? Or are you trying to HK-trade by stuffing both sides of the BG? Because if it's option 2 that's in the same league as win trading and it's going to get you banned if you get caught.

    If it's option 1, I'd be annoyed to get stuck in a group with you, but you're probably in the clear.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Mass reporting a player makes the system instantly kick the player with no warning and debuffs them with Deserter for their trouble.
    That's just ignorant to circumvent the system with just sheer volume of jerks.

  5. #65
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Deciding to do something easy, and not do something very difficult, makes your decision a lazy one.
    I'm going to go to sleep, instead of an all nighter without sugar or caffeine and I've got work tomorrow morning.

    Clearly I'm lazy.

    Can you see how easy =/= lazy?
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Deciding to do something easy, and not do something very difficult, makes your decision a lazy one.
    So "Work smarter, not harder" = lazy?

  7. #67
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geewhiz80 View Post
    That's just ignorant to circumvent the system with just sheer volume of jerks.
    It was meant to be used to fix cases where bots would get the Idle debuff whilst following someone, and then it would just heal/DPS the nearest character in PvP combat to drop the debuff. The bot would then need to be re-reported in order to get the Inactive debuff, and then it would just heal/DPS the nearest character in PvP combat to drop that debuff. The bot would then need to be re-reported in order to kick him without the debuff.

    Instead, multiple simultaneous reports in a short time scale instanly kicks the reported player regardless of debuff (or even PvP combat).
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
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  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    I'm going to go to sleep, instead of an all nighter without sugar or caffeine and I've got work tomorrow morning.

    Clearly I'm lazy.

    Can you see how easy =/= lazy?
    I'm lazy and I'd sure as hell pick the easy one. Ergo easy correlates with lazy when used in the proper context.

    We're getting off topic though, as I said in my last post: Using the kick feature to kick somebody is not exploiting even if they don't deserve to be kicked.

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  9. #69
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geewhiz80 View Post
    So "Work smarter, not harder" = lazy?
    I guess I should refine that. Deciding to do something easy, and not do something very difficult, makes your decision a lazy one when you know the difficult option creates a far better and preferred outcome.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    They do not have it, but they could easily get it. They choose not to. I have done plenty of random BGs where strats were called in chat and followed to success. You can also choose to gather a group and run it yourself. But no scrubs want to stand around and collect gear, and those good players who actually communicate and show teamwork have to get punished for not being lazy.
    1. "Good" or "geared" players aren't being punished at all. We just downsized our groups to 5. It is more than enough to dominate 10-15 people battlegrounds with ease and gives a distinct advantage on 40 people battlegrounds. You really, really don't need 10-40 people for that.
    2. They can't easily get it, you can't coordinate 40 people without teamspeak and everyone sharing the same objective actually wanting to listen to the leader. It's not possible. Even if a group of 40 randoms tried to do exactly that typing is far slower, coordination is harder and they're often outgeared.
    3. Despite what you guys want the randoms to believe, most proper 40 man honor farm kill groups do have certain gear requirements. Back in Cataclysm I ran some myself and we never took players under a certain gear treshhold.
    4. It is not winnable for pugs unless the premade lets them win it. You can't overcome the gear, voice chat, clear hierarchy and chain of command and other distinct advantages of a proper premade. We didn't lose a single game in over 30-40 Alteracs and 10-20 IoC despite some very good attempts of burning Drek'thar down after all 4 towers were destroyed.
    5. 40 man groups farming honor kills have nothing, nothing whatsoever to do with PvP. It's farming other people like PvE mobs. I've been there, I've done that and it's a simple slaughter farming them on their graveyard till eventually nobody respawns anymore. Capping said graveyard and moving on to the next one herding those players who ran back to it and then farming them again.

  11. #71
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Mass reporting a player makes the system instantly kick the player with no warning and debuffs them with Deserter for their trouble.
    I was not aware of that, if that is the case then I think the people initiating such a kick should be penalized for griefing.
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  12. #72
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I was not aware of that, if that is the case then I think the people initiating such a kick should be penalized for griefing.
    Then you could be penalising people reporting bots that avoid the debuff.

    It's an annoyingly double-edged sword.
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  13. #73
    Kicking them for not listening is fine

  14. #74
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krolikn View Post
    Kicking them for not listening is fine
    Joining a 40-man PvP game with 40 people isn't fine, however, and that comes way before you can get to the kicking.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarthan View Post
    Yeah OP watch out he will mass report you for mass reporting people. lol leave this thread please.
    One is mass reporting because he didn't get his way; the other because the one who didn't get his way is griefing. No difference at all.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 10:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    1. "Good" or "geared" players aren't being punished at all. We just downsized our groups to 5. It is more than enough to dominate 10-15 people battlegrounds with ease and gives a distinct advantage on 40 people battlegrounds. You really, really don't need 10-40 people for that.
    2. They can't easily get it, you can't coordinate 40 people without teamspeak and everyone sharing the same objective actually wanting to listen to the leader. It's not possible. Even if a group of 40 randoms tried to do exactly that typing is far slower, coordination is harder and they're often outgeared.
    3. Despite what you guys want the randoms to believe, most proper 40 man honor farm kill groups do have certain gear requirements. Back in Cataclysm I ran some myself and we never took players under a certain gear treshhold.
    4. It is not winnable for pugs unless the premade lets them win it. You can't overcome the gear, voice chat, clear hierarchy and chain of command and other distinct advantages of a proper premade. We didn't lose a single game in over 30-40 Alteracs and 10-20 IoC despite some very good attempts of burning Drek'thar down after all 4 towers were destroyed.
    5. 40 man groups farming honor kills have nothing, nothing whatsoever to do with PvP. It's farming other people like PvE mobs. I've been there, I've done that and it's a simple slaughter farming them on their graveyard till eventually nobody respawns anymore. Capping said graveyard and moving on to the next one herding those players who ran back to it and then farming them again.

    If you have 26% of a brain and have been a better-than-average PvPer in WoW, you do not need to be in any voice communication with the pre-made, nor do you need to really know anything except "who is my focus CC?". If you're too much of a carebear or just plain suck, then you really shouldn't be queueing for anything PvP realated.

    I do disagree with the mass reporting AFK, though. That is griefing; I prefer harrassment, myself. Let them sit through it, shit talk them about their sub-par intelligence (attempt to keep the language clean, no need for a language ban while conditioning a new/noob PvPer), drizzle a few choice words of playing advice (are you really glyphed for Dark Succor in Blood spec?? Dumbass), while completing your objectives, reminding said drool cup user: you're very welcome for the carry and the advice.

  16. #76
    I know exactly the group you are talking about and I have been running this with them since they began doing it. Not once has anybody gotten into trouble for it.

  17. #77
    Intentionally circumventing the limits placed on the queuing system is not only a violation of the "spirit" of the game, but has quite specifically been cited as an actionable offense by Blues in US and EU alike.

    Furthermore, it's important to make the distinction between the "vote to kick" functionality in queued pve content and the "report player away" functionality in queued pvp content.

    The language is the key here. In PvE, the vote-kick function is intentionally ambiguous, specifically to allow groups to remove a member for numerous reasons, and provides a means of explaining and justifying the action.

    In PvP, using the "report player away" for any other purpose than that player being AFK/inactive is blatant use of a game function/feature for unintended purposes and is certainly actionable as far as bans and suspensions are concerned.

    "Nobody told me it was against the rules, and even though it's obviously wrong, and a total dick move, since there's nothing in writing, it's totally okay, amirite?!!!eleven!"

    Too many people run around with the mistaken belief that it's okay to violate the spirit of game play, as long as Blizzard hasn't specifically addressed the issue at question.

    The simple fact is, it's still wrong, even if Blizzard hasn't come out and said that it's wrong yet, and there's plenty of examples in WoW's past where people have tried to play innocent, claiming that they were simply making clever use of a loophole or feature (early LFR exploits are an example) to achieve unintended ends. Blizzard hasn't hesitated in laying down heavy bans in those situations.

    While Blizzard isn't notoriously quick to act on things like this, they tend to get around to it eventually (wintrading for example, even if they botched it at the end of the day), so don't expect the "nobody told me it was wrong" defense to help much when the hammer drops.

  18. #78
    Intentionally circumventing the limits placed on the queuing system is not only a violation of the "spirit" of the game, but has quite specifically been cited as an actionable offense by Blues in US and EU alike.

    Furthermore, it's important to make the distinction between the "vote to kick" functionality in queued pve content and the "report player away" functionality in queued pvp content.

    The language is the key here. In PvE, the vote-kick function is intentionally ambiguous, specifically to allow groups to remove a member for numerous reasons, and provides a means of explaining and justifying the action.

    In PvP, using the "report player away" for any other purpose than that player being AFK/inactive is blatant use of a game function/feature for unintended purposes and is certainly actionable as far as bans and suspensions are concerned.

    "Nobody told me it was against the rules, and even though it's obviously wrong, and a total dick move, since there's nothing in writing, it's totally okay, amirite?!!!eleven!"

    Too many people run around with the mistaken belief that it's okay to violate the spirit of game play, as long as Blizzard hasn't specifically addressed the issue at question.

    The simple fact is, it's still wrong, even if Blizzard hasn't come out and said that it's wrong yet, and there's plenty of examples in WoW's past where people have tried to play innocent, claiming that they were simply making clever use of a loophole or feature (early LFR exploits are an example) to achieve unintended ends. Blizzard hasn't hesitated in laying down heavy bans in those situations.

    While Blizzard isn't notoriously quick to act on things like this, they tend to get around to it eventually (wintrading for example, even if they botched it at the end of the day), so don't expect the "nobody told me it was wrong" defense to help much when the hammer drops.

  19. #79
    I was on the opposing side of this the other day, and I'm pretty sure organizing premades is a ban-able offense. Either way when you put 40 organized ppl together to cheese hks versus 40 nonorganized ppl you are a lazy scumbag.
    do what you feel.

  20. #80
    Do we have a word from Blizzard on this kind of premade Bgs and possible sanctions?

    I ended in one last WE and was really surprised. Not all the Bg was part of the premade but everyone followed the lead and ended up farming the other guys for a good 45min. I don't know why players on the other side actually stayed that long I would have quit the BG after 5 minutes...

    On one hand, it's just everyone following a strategy. On the other, it feels a bit harsh in a random BG to have this sort of things has it's no longer random.

    Just wondering.

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