1. #1
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    What could Rets RBG utility be?

    Everyone agrees we dont have enough utility to get into an rbg. What would it take for ret to be RBG viable and not OP in other pvp aspects?

    I'll go first. Just some random ideas exclusive to ret.


    Divine Intervention
    5 sec cast 40 yard range.
    Casted on a friendly player. When the friendly target recieves a blow that would otherwise be fatal, he is healed for the amount equal to the paladins current hp and the paladin dies instead. Lasts 30mins. Can not be dispelled. 5min cooldown.

    Final Blessing
    Passive
    When the paladin dies he grants his allies within 50 yard 30% haste for 10 seconds. 3 min cooldown.


    Crusader Aura
    Passive
    Increase mounted speed of allies by 20% within 50 yard. Replaces heart of the crusader.


    Hand of Salvation
    Instant cast 40 yard range.
    Places a Hand on the party or raid member, temporarily removing all their threat for 10 sec. In additon dispells 1 harmful magic effect every 3 seconds. Players may only have one Hand on them per Paladin at any one time. 2 min cooldown.


    Land of Freedom
    Instant cast 30 yard range
    Consecrate the land in a 8 yard radius for 6 seconds. While standing in this land allies are immune to movement impairing effects. 1 min cooldown.

  2. #2
    IMO, something like a powerful strike that also heals allies around you without needing to target them. It would need a long cooldown to be balanced though.

    At the moment if you want to heal/help allies while fighting you either need to mouse over a raid frame, or target them with a macro (with or without losing your target), and you need a macro for every ability for every player so it's literally impossible.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipoststuff View Post
    Everyone agrees we dont have enough utility to get into an rbg. What would it take for ret to be RBG viable and not OP in other pvp aspects?

    I'll go first. Just some random ideas exclusive to ret.


    Divine Intervention
    5 sec cast 40 yard range.
    Casted on a friendly player. When the friendly target recieves a blow that would otherwise be fatal, he is healed for the amount equal to the paladins current hp and the paladin dies instead. Lasts 30mins. Can not be dispelled. 5min cooldown.

    Final Blessing
    Passive
    When the paladin dies he grants his allies within 50 yard 30% haste for 10 seconds. 3 min cooldown.


    Crusader Aura
    Passive
    Increase mounted speed of allies by 20% within 50 yard. Replaces heart of the crusader.


    Hand of Salvation
    Instant cast 40 yard range.
    Places a Hand on the party or raid member, temporarily removing all their threat for 10 sec. In additon dispells 1 harmful magic effect every 3 seconds. Players may only have one Hand on them per Paladin at any one time. 2 min cooldown.


    Land of Freedom
    Instant cast 30 yard range
    Consecrate the land in a 8 yard radius for 6 seconds. While standing in this land allies are immune to movement impairing effects. 1 min cooldown.
    First and most importantly, There are only 2 true RBG utilities that anyone gives a shit about.

    Death Grip being one of them and Smoke Bomb being the other. There is nothing on this list that as an RBG leader would make me say oh let's bring that Ret. Let me give you all the reasons why I wouldn't bring a Ret.

    1. While the Burst damage is great it's way to easy to control.
    2. Ret struggles at staying on a target once it uses any type of gap closer to get away.
    3. They die very fast.
    4. Ret doesn't know what AE damage is.

    As an RBG leader and a Ret you will not get a spot because you have some special heal, We have that now it's called Lay on Hands and it doesn't secure us shit. The utility you need for me to bring you is utility that will secure a kill or give an upper hand. Heals and Freedoms do not do either of those. Death Grips and Smoke Bombs do both of those.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    First and most importantly, There are only 2 true RBG utilities that anyone gives a shit about.

    Death Grip being one of them and Smoke Bomb being the other. There is nothing on this list that as an RBG leader would make me say oh let's bring that Ret. Let me give you all the reasons why I wouldn't bring a Ret.

    1. While the Burst damage is great it's way to easy to control.
    2. Ret struggles at staying on a target once it uses any type of gap closer to get away.
    3. They die very fast.
    4. Ret doesn't know what AE damage is.

    As an RBG leader and a Ret you will not get a spot because you have some special heal, We have that now it's called Lay on Hands and it doesn't secure us shit. The utility you need for me to bring you is utility that will secure a kill or give an upper hand. Heals and Freedoms do not do either of those. Death Grips and Smoke Bombs do both of those.
    You just nailed it on the head.

    I always liked the idea of bringing consecrate back and making it an AOE dispell/cleanse. You lay it down and it will clear AoE debuffs such as solar beam, ring of frost, smokebomb, etc...

    Basically a counter for all the gay shit that happens in RBGs now. My buddy likes doing the Solar beam, gorefiends grasp, ring of frost, vortex move in RBGs.....That shit kept 6 people unable to cast or move for almost 10 seconds.... It was the most OP shit I had ever seen.

  5. #5
    Group bubble: bubble all allies within 40 yards. No penalty. 1 min CD. Off GCD.

  6. #6
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    Group bubble: bubble all allies within 40 yards. No penalty. 1 min CD. Off GCD.
    Instead of that, how about getting Divine Guardian back? I absolutely loved that CD back in Wrath.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster Requite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Instead of that, how about getting Divine Guardian back? I absolutely loved that CD back in Wrath.
    Second this, was also one of my fav abilities that has since gone missing. Or a MS on Crusader Strike?
    Great Uther's ghost, it's chasing after us! Squire, do something! Throw rocks at it! I have no plan!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Uridawnblade View Post
    Second this, was also one of my fav abilities that has since gone missing. Or a MS on Crusader Strike?
    Neither will help in RBGs though, MS slightly but so many have it already.

    I like the idea of an AoE counter to all the AoE stuff in at the moment, unfortunately it probably wont happen since its just starts the 'counter' spiral and then some other class will get something that counters our counter and we'll be in the same position again. Somehow need something unique, paladin like that brings the same advantage to the battleground as dg or smoke bomb :S

  9. #9
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    I still say we need on use Auras like the new Devotion Aura.

    Devotion Aura. (As is or modified)

    Retribution Aura.

    Sanctity Aura (as per early TBC)

    Concentration Aura.

    I like Divine Intervention coming back in some form, and what Malthanis said, Divine Guardian.

    I'll still harp on wanting to turn into the light and appear at the target as a gap closer. Could top it off with the option to grab the opponent and return back to where you were for judgement.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
    | [MoP]Ret Paladin Guide | Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |

    WoW Level Scaling Feature

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    I still say we need on use Auras like the new Devotion Aura.

    Devotion Aura. (As is or modified)

    Retribution Aura.

    Sanctity Aura (as per early TBC)

    Concentration Aura.

    I like Divine Intervention coming back in some form, and what Malthanis said, Divine Guardian.

    I'll still harp on wanting to turn into the light and appear at the target as a gap closer. Could top it off with the option to grab the opponent and return back to where you were for judgement.
    I do miss Auras. However, I like the current iteration of the Aura system as cooldowns, rather than fire-n-forget at the start of a fight. I feel like we should lobby to get an Aura for ret that could provide group/RBG utility. I'd actually suggest this:

    Sanctity Aura: Retribution only - The paladin sanctifies and cleanses his allies souls, removing any loss of control effects and preventing movement impairing effects for 4 seconds. 20yd range, 3min CD.

    This could either replace Devo Aura for Ret, or be a new button. I thought about Ret aura (being the more obvious choice) as a 10 sec duration 10-25% reflect aura, but honestly a group anti-CC ability would work wonders in making ret viable and even desirable in PVP (with limited but useful applications in PVE too). I'd like to give a unique one to Prot too, but perhaps they'd be better off getting the only DG back as some raid utility.

    Also, I agree with the gap closer. I'd like to see Burden of Guilt go baseline for Ret (and maybe Prot, but meh) and in its place give this:

    Chains of Justice: Talent - Fire Holy chains at the enemy target, pulling the caster and the target towards each other. If the target is more than 15 yards away, they are rooted for 4 seconds upon landing. 5-25 yard range, 25 sec cooldown.

    It's not a charge, and it's not a death grip. It's closest to Clash (BrM monk ability) if anything, and would give a useful peel when needed or a unique gap closer if nothing else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  11. #11
    Retribution Aura was crap , in wrath i was always being forced to change my Ret Aura

  12. #12
    We just need hand of freedom to remove stuns again on us.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    IMO, something like a powerful strike that also heals allies around you without needing to target them. It would need a long cooldown to be balanced though.

    At the moment if you want to heal/help allies while fighting you either need to mouse over a raid frame, or target them with a macro (with or without losing your target), and you need a macro for every ability for every player so it's literally impossible.
    - macro WoG to your mouse using healbot so u can click name to heal.
    - glyph of battle healer
    - cast divine storm
    - profit.

    But now we suck at it because of pvp power and paladins don't have that tier 2 holy talent that increases WoG's crit by 60% when u heal a target below 35%. That was godly...

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 03:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Matrlx View Post
    Retribution Aura was crap , in wrath i was always being forced to change my Ret Aura
    hated that in wrath. lol

    if a prot pally had it on and I was playing my rogue I used to ignore him, even if he had the flag (it was a twink, if I was lvl 80 i'd beat his ass)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    First and most importantly, There are only 2 true RBG utilities that anyone gives a shit about.

    Death Grip being one of them and Smoke Bomb being the other.
    Solar Beam, Ursol's Vortex and Ring of Frost are also in high demand.

  15. #15
    Paladin auras were the one thing that made us unique. Shamans have their totems, hunters have their pets and ranged weapons. Rogues have their stealth, Druids have their shape changing, Mages have their...well everything. eg eg

    Our auras ( ret mainly ) need to be reworked imo so that they really benefit the group as well as the paladin. And glyphs could reduce radius but increase power of various auras. Auras should be PASSIVE.

    Aura of concentration ret only- Silence and spell interupt effects are reduced by 50% ( big yes but needs to be worth it if we are to be taken in RBGs )
    Retribution aura ( folded with eye for an eye ) - Melee attacks inflict 25% damage back to the enemy
    Devotion Aura - 15% damage reduction on all Melee attacks
    Fire Aura - 50% reduced fire damage
    Frost Aura - 50% reduced frost damage
    Shadow - 50% reduced Shadow damage

    Having 6 auras to chose from, each having their own very beneficial passive effect really makes having multiple ret paladins a valued contribution to any RBG.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vathius View Post
    Paladin auras were the one thing that made us unique. Shamans have their totems, hunters have their pets and ranged weapons. Rogues have their stealth, Druids have their shape changing, Mages have their...well everything. eg eg

    Our auras ( ret mainly ) need to be reworked imo so that they really benefit the group as well as the paladin. And glyphs could reduce radius but increase power of various auras. Auras should be PASSIVE.

    Aura of concentration ret only- Silence and spell interupt effects are reduced by 50% ( big yes but needs to be worth it if we are to be taken in RBGs )
    Retribution aura ( folded with eye for an eye ) - Melee attacks inflict 25% damage back to the enemy
    Devotion Aura - 15% damage reduction on all Melee attacks
    Fire Aura - 50% reduced fire damage
    Frost Aura - 50% reduced frost damage
    Shadow - 50% reduced Shadow damage

    Having 6 auras to chose from, each having their own very beneficial passive effect really makes having multiple ret paladins a valued contribution to any RBG.
    Well, aside from the ludicrous values you have listed here, you'd just bring X Holy Paladins instead of Ret paladins at the end of the day. Unless, you made ALL of these auras Ret only. Even then, you'd get MAYBE one into an RBG group, and 1-2 in a 25m raid. Passives are boring and hard to balance (so Blizz makes them very bare-bones and paltry); you'd likely see something like a 5% reduction in spell damage or melee damage if you had a passive aura, and even THAT is pushing what I'd expect for a set-n-forget ability.

    Having them on a CD allows them to be more powerful and, when used skillfully, game-changing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    First and most importantly, There are only 2 true RBG utilities that anyone gives a shit about.

    Death Grip being one of them and Smoke Bomb being the other. There is nothing on this list that as an RBG leader would make me say oh let's bring that Ret. Let me give you all the reasons why I wouldn't bring a Ret.

    1. While the Burst damage is great it's way to easy to control.
    2. Ret struggles at staying on a target once it uses any type of gap closer to get away.
    3. They die very fast.
    4. Ret doesn't know what AE damage is.

    As an RBG leader and a Ret you will not get a spot because you have some special heal, We have that now it's called Lay on Hands and it doesn't secure us shit. The utility you need for me to bring you is utility that will secure a kill or give an upper hand. Heals and Freedoms do not do either of those. Death Grips and Smoke Bombs do both of those.
    - Divine Intervention:
    Forms a sanctuary around the Paladin, causing all nearby allies within 10yards to be free of any movement impairing effects,
    providing immunity to snares and against external movement such as knockbacks. Lasts 8 seconds.


    External movement immunity means a counter to Knockbacks, Grips, Ursol's Vortext + Beam.
    In addition to roots, snares and AoE roots/snares.
    Giving your party, especially melee, valuable time of freedom to secure kills.

    I took the concept of immunity to external movement from Pillar of Frost, so i know it exists.
    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" - Calvin and Hobbes

  18. #18
    Assembly of the Divine (Retribution): Lowers the cooldown on your Devotion Aura by 1 minute and when Devotion Aura is activated, it instantly dispels 2 magic effects on every target affected (preferring CC effects).

  19. #19
    Divine Intervention should be brought back in name only: I could think of something that would definitely make us viable in RBGs.

    Divine Intervention
    Redirects all heals a target receives to the paladin for x seconds. Cannot redirect more heals than the Paladin's maximum HP.

    I'd say something like 6 seconds, 1-2 minute cooldown, single target, requires melee range to apply.

    Also Speed of Light should be a default ability. It's something all the specs really should have.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laptop View Post
    Solar Beam, Ursol's Vortex and Ring of Frost are also in high demand.
    Those aren't melee, That's why I listed melee. Now if you want to give a Ret a solar beam it still wouldn't secure a RBG spot they still lack too much on the offensive end. They can't multi target for shit and that's all RBG's are see how much damage you ca spread all match long.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-06 at 06:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    - Divine Intervention:
    Forms a sanctuary around the Paladin, causing all nearby allies within 10yards to be free of any movement impairing effects,
    providing immunity to snares and against external movement such as knockbacks. Lasts 8 seconds.


    External movement immunity means a counter to Knockbacks, Grips, Ursol's Vortext + Beam.
    In addition to roots, snares and AoE roots/snares.
    Giving your party, especially melee, valuable time of freedom to secure kills.

    I took the concept of immunity to external movement from Pillar of Frost, so i know it exists.
    I'm telling you if a Ret can't put out the required damage + have a kick ass utility they can't come unless they know someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

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