"Are Modern Soldiers Heroes?" An empty argument?

[Mandible]

Automaticly saying someone is a hero is empty. If said person did something that could be defined heroic then yes - that person would be a "hero" (like running through gunfire to save someone else, or making a sacrifice to help others). But when talking about soldiers in most cases I´d have to disagree. Because its what they are supposed to do - its not fun, and its not something you do for the glory. If you are there due to politicians decided you should it sucks even more. But its a job like all others with some higher riscs.

The only two other jobs I can think of which could have "heroes" would be in the medical, and firefighting business. You can argue in regards to the police, but in general its not a job I would think there should (not saying there isn´t in most countries) be a risc of being a hero. Anyways as said - firefighters and medical (as in hospital) would be only other place with an actual chance or risc of turning the impossible around.

Obviously doesn´t mean you shouldn´t respect what said people do, but the term "hero" is slightly overused imo.

[Wildtree]

I think we seriously, as americans, need to stop calling everyone a hero. While I greatly respect the armed services, I don't necessarily consider them heroes. The people who died in the trade center? Not heroes either.

Here's an observation as foreigner living here in the US.
I have noticed a certain obsession with various words in the USA, or maybe call it exaggeration. Hero is just one of them. Ultimately it always leads to a diminishing of the words value. Hero is a term which is and should be awarded rather rarely. It's commonly used to express or showcase a persons extraordinary achievement. And that is usually attached to multiple people who are doing the same thing the hero does. History gives us many heroes. Consequently, calling every soldier a hero, what would be left for those amongst them who stand out?
Another fine example in American culture is the inflationary use of the word Love. It's so widespread used on most ordinary things, that the key impression "I Love you" is outright downgraded. Where other cultures refer to the same things with "I like", Americans say "I Love"... I love my job, I love my food, I love my neighbors, I love, I love, I love... I have actually called people out for it IRL. Asking them if they were aware what kind of nonsense they are talking? It is, that most people aren't even aware how much crap they release. Words become so custom, that no one thinks of their values and meaning anymore. They don't grasp the concept of special words to be reserved and left alone for very rare occasions. Love and Hero are just 2 of numerous examples.
I don't know if I want to put blame on the media landscape. Sure, media helps to create keywords, Media helps to spread trends around. And sure media has it's great share on supporting the overuse of words, by doing exactly that too. But at the end of the day, it's the people who apparently don't use their brain and common sense.

[Wikiy]

Another fine example in American culture is the inflationary use of the word Love. It's so widespread used on most ordinary things, that the key impression "I Love you" is outright downgraded. Where other cultures refer to the same things with "I like", Americans say "I Love"... I love my job, I love my food, I love my neighbors, I love, I love, I love... I have actually called people out for it IRL. Asking them if they were aware what kind of nonsense they are talking? It is, that most people aren't even aware how much crap they release. Words become so custom, that no one thinks of their values and meaning anymore. They don't grasp the concept of special words to be reserved and left alone for very rare occasions. Love and Hero are just 2 of numerous examples.

"Love" and "like" are the same words in Croatian. That doesn't mean saying "I love you" in doesn't bear the same weight as it would if there were two different words. It's all about the context. When you understand the context, it doesn't matter one bit what the word is.

[Pull My Finger]

Soldiers aren't heroes, they're soldiers.

[Azgraal]

Today, more than ever, armies are either puppets or simple citizens doing a job like any other. It all depends which army is being talked about.

[brirrspliff]

soldiers can't be heroes - only people can be heroes, and therefore it does not matter if someone is a soldier, a firefighter, a passer-by or whatever. your actions matter, nothing else. so there are soldiers who can be considered heroes, but that has nothing to do with the fact that they are soldiers - it's the person.

on a side-note: risking your live in a war somewhere does NOT make you a hero. most of the time, it makes you an idiot - but that's only my opinion.

[Stede]

"Modern soldiers are not heroes...."

I disagree with that to an extent. Maintaining an all-volunteer military of individuals who choose to protect their nation and its interests is more of a thankless task outside of wartime. There is no great evil bearing down on the populace for military to save us from. I think it's quite callous to say that soldiers don't deserve any further credit because the risks they endure are "part of the job". The lasting effects of war injuries are real, and any other job would afford them workman's compensation and disability benefits (most militaries have these type of benefits now.

To be honest, I ask myself if I'd rather it were me. And the answer is not really. But I sure as heck am glad there is someone else who's willing to serve. I understand what that means. And even if i don't think they're a hero, I'm damned glad they're there doing the job they're doing.

[Deleted]

"Modern soldiers are not heroes...."

I disagree with that to an extent. Maintaining an all-volunteer military of individuals who choose to protect their nation and its interests is more of a thankless task outside of wartime. There is no great evil bearing down on the populace for military to save us from. I think it's quite callous to say that soldiers don't deserve any further credit because the risks they endure are "part of the job". The lasting effects of war injuries are real, and any other job would afford them workman's compensation and disability benefits (most militaries have these type of benefits now.

To be honest, I ask myself if I'd rather it were me. And the answer is not really. But I sure as heck am glad there is someone else who's willing to serve. I understand what that means. And even if i don't think they're a hero, I'm damned glad they're there doing the job they're doing.

This is what people fail to understand, without volunteers then we would need to reinstate the draft and start conscripting. All those people calling Soldiers, child murderers would suddenly find themselves in bootcamp, or prison for refusing. Ask the Vietnam Vets how it felt to be drafted against their will.

[Stede]

I dont think being a soldier is more worthy than other jobs. Firemen, nurses, policemen, bin men, bus drivers, and so on, they keep our society functioning.

I don't see how you'd logically equate bus drivers and soldiers in terms of the amount of self-sacrifice that's typically involved in their professions. That's silly.

[Skronk]

Is your friend implying that leadership wasn't corrupt back in the day?

Politics were even worse 100 years ago and the people who told you to go out and die back then were by far worse people to die for than those you have now. Oh the stupid crap people had wars over... You know WW1 started because of some duke got murdered right? Hundreds of thousands of dead, all because of that. Some unimportant noble in some backwater country that was having internal conflicts.
Wars before WW1 were even more stupid. People would kill each other over squabbles between nobles and kings. Hell, WW2 was just as dumb. There's nothing more, or less heroic about soldiers of older days.

War is rarely ever righteous or heroic.

while i agree with the sentiment that War is rarely ever righteous or heroic, your assertion that ww1 started merely due to "some unimportant noble" (who i dont really think was all that unimportant given he was heir to the throne, at least to the people of his empire, not that i personally agree with it) getting killed displays a level of ignorance on the subject rarely seen outside of high school history lessons. It was no more than the spark that lit the fuse to a powder keg situation in europe. The war was coming one way or the other, the leaders in all the major players already knew this, some of them where arguably eagerly awaiting it.

[haaskilbas]

Originally Posted by Bathory
I think we seriously, as americans, need to stop calling everyone a hero. While I greatly respect the armed services, I don't necessarily consider them heroes. The people who died in the trade center? Not heroes either.

I dont think very many people considered the people who died in the trade center heroes...they were victims along with their families. However the people on the flight that crashed in PA are what I would consider heroes. They deliberately changed a situation which ended in their deaths with the intention of preventing the possible deaths of others.

[Kuntantee]

I disagree about modern soldiers being educated unless you are talking about super-elite forces of an army who got trained in various aspects of war together with other subjects extensively. Consider the fact that even non-soldiers aren't educated enough.

[Deleted]

I disagree about modern soldiers being educated. Considering the fact that even non-soldiers aren't educated enough unless you aren't talking about super-elite forces of an army who got trained in various aspects of war extensively.

Despite the fact that the odd moron may slip through and make the others look bad, most Soldiers are at least of average IQ. In order to join the US army you need to take a test called the ASVAB, this basically tests you on many subjects and tells you whether or not you have the brains to do a certain job or role within the forces. Someone that is an idiot will not pass this test. It is even tougher to join the British Army, We have so many people applying to join we are turning away people unless they score above average on the BARB test.

[Kuntantee]

Despite the fact that the odd moron may slip through and make the others look bad, most Soldiers are at least of average IQ. In order to join the US army you need to take a test called the ASVAB, this basically tests you on many subjects and tells you whether or not you have the brains to do a certain job or role within the forces. Someone that is an idiot will not pass this test. It is even tougher to join the British Army, We have so many people applying to join we are turning away people unless they score above average on the BARB test.

I never mentioned IQ. I was talking about education.

[Deleted]

I never mentioned IQ. I was talking about education.

Education comes within the forces itself, many jobs require extensive training that will cost a lot of money to acquire as a civilian.

[Deleted]

Twas a great monday, the sun was shining outside - come back home and see *Durrr soldiers r stupad*.

You think they'd hand guns over to brain dead people? I mean, lets ignore it's a voluntary based army - with no conscription whatsoever. And then let's not count the education a standard soldier would need to attain to simply do his job at an average level within the forces.

Nope, let's ignore all that and focus on the odd guy who's just a dick and bluffed his way through talking shit and gives them a bad image.

Fact of the matter is, alot of the soldiers coming home are entering there chosen trade after R&R and arnt leeching benefits and some are actually being given ALOT of incentive to teach.

So i'd say they deserve alot of respect for there choices and the life they live which, contrary to popular belief is NOT easy.

Blind adoration though and vilifying them for your own gains? No thanks, back off to your crazy corner.

[Badpaladin]

I disagree about modern soldiers being educated unless you are talking about super-elite forces of an army who got trained in various aspects of war together with other subjects extensively. Consider the fact that even non-soldiers aren't educated enough.

I'd say they're more educated than the general population, at least right now until a few more generations make it through the obligatory Bachelor's Degree. Even "grunts" have to learn about and how to make effective use of systems far more complex than what some average jackass working at Subway does. I imagine there's some complete morons in the military, but I highly doubt they're allowed to work on or touch anything of consequence.

[Deleted]

I'd say they're more educated than the general population, at least right now until a few more generations make it through the obligatory Bachelor's Degree. Even "grunts" have to learn about and how to make effective use of systems far more complex than what some average jackass working at Subway does. I imagine there's some complete morons in the military, but I highly doubt they're allowed to work on or touch anything of consequence.

We call them chefs. Although to call them morons is not very fair, they still have to attend the toughest course in the Military, The Military Culinary school. This school is so tough, so brutal, that no chef has ever passed the course.

[Sicarus]

There's not really remarkable or courageous deeds being done over there.

Soldier =/= Hero.

[Shiny212]

Every time I hear stories glorifying WWII soldiers, I'm reminded of the account of a German family who recalls being scared to death by the sounds of invading soldiers going from apartment to apartment and the screams of the women being raped.

The reasons for war may be different, but I doubt the effect it has on people has changed much at all. People were no more noble in the past, they just had better excuses for the terrible shit they inflicted on one another.

That said, I respect our soldiers, past and present. End of the day, they're willing to die in the line of duty, something I doubt I'll ever be able to say. It doesn't mean they should get a pass, though.

Not enough women in germany to account for all the ones raped by the germans in WW2 dude;p