Thread: Internet Crash

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerox View Post
    Some people also dont 'save' the settings, so when power goes down the settings are gone.
    Modems automatically save settings in non-volatile memory. If setting were wrong, then his modem was not working. If firmware was defective, then it was not working before a power loss.

    OP described an intermittent. Classic of a problem made obvious and quickly solved by dB numbers or by inspection of the cable's earth ground. Numerous other suggestions are available should the OP be interested. Apparently belligerent denials based in insufficient hardware knowledge have confused or driven him off.

  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    Apparently belligerent denials based in insufficient hardware knowledge have confused or driven him off.
    yet you keep posting them

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    Modems automatically save settings in non-volatile memory. If setting were wrong, then his modem was not working. If firmware was defective, then it was not working before a power loss.

    OP described an intermittent. Classic of a problem made obvious and quickly solved by dB numbers or by inspection of the cable's earth ground. Numerous other suggestions are available should the OP be interested. Apparently belligerent denials based in insufficient hardware knowledge have confused or driven him off.
    Insufficient? Please tell us your qualifications? I've conveyed what I have run in to when I've worked with problems like this in the field. It's called simple troubleshooting methods and his best bet is to just call his ISP or in the case he buys his own modems to buy a new one. I doubt he has the means to get dB numbers or knows how to inspect whether his house is grounded to the earth or not which most likely it is. Grounding rods are 8ft pieces of copper driven into the earth with a clamp that has a #6 gauge wire for the ground to your main service panel and you need two 8' rods driven in. This is not something easy to inspect and I would not recommend someone with probably no experience doing so.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Iamanerd View Post
    I've conveyed what I have run in to when I've worked with problems like this in the field.
    We periodically get a technician who never learned how to think through a problem. Who only shotgunned. And somehow knows only from observation. Engineers then retrain that tech to 'follow the evidence'. Techs were retrained even back when our modems were 300 baud. When modems could only be purchased from AT&T. Back then, cable TV (something new) cost between $4 and $8 per month. And your design experience is how extensive?

    Any layman can inspect an earth ground or read dB numbers from a server (if it exists in the OP's modem). We even send a teenage kid to do the inspection. It is that 'difficult'. Gives the kid an opportunity to learn something. Anybody can trace a wire to a ground rod. Apparently you believe inspection requires a rocket scientist.

    A homeowner that cannot inspect his ground rod must learn; to ask questions. Since the homeowner and only the homeowner is responsible for that electrode.

    Power loss does not cause damage, does not create destructive spikes, and does not explain an intermittent modem. Even international design standards, years before the IBM PC existed, required electronics to be powered by any voltage down to zero without damage. The low voltage region even included this expression: No Damage Region. Why do I know about 40+ year old design standards? That should have been obvious long before you posted accusations rather than ask technical questions.

    AC electricity is 60 Hz. I should not have to explain this. That means AC electricity power cycles (goes on and off) 120 times a second. So why does AC electricity power cycle 120 times a second and not create destructive spikes? Spikes are another myth created by insufficient electrical knowledge or by knowledge from observation.

    OP was given two recommendations. To identify the reason for his intermittent modem and to eliminate future problems.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsmith8182 View Post
    The resion for the internet crash may be the virus so you first install the anti-virus.if It nit work good then format yours system.
    biof.com
    What an... odd piece of advice. Literally going to 'format the pc' in the second sentence. While his computer has zero issues. /backsawayslowly

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    We periodically get a technician who never learned how to think through a problem. Who only shotgunned. And somehow knows only from observation. Engineers then retrain that tech to 'follow the evidence'. Techs were retrained even back when our modems were 300 baud. When modems could only be purchased from AT&T. Back then, cable TV (something new) cost between $4 and $8 per month. And your design experience is how extensive?

    Any layman can inspect an earth ground or read dB numbers from a server (if it exists in the OP's modem). We even send a teenage kid to do the inspection. It is that 'difficult'. Gives the kid an opportunity to learn something. Anybody can trace a wire to a ground rod. Apparently you believe inspection requires a rocket scientist.

    A homeowner that cannot inspect his ground rod must learn; to ask questions. Since the homeowner and only the homeowner is responsible for that electrode.

    Power loss does not cause damage, does not create destructive spikes, and does not explain an intermittent modem. Even international design standards, years before the IBM PC existed, required electronics to be powered by any voltage down to zero without damage. The low voltage region even included this expression: No Damage Region. Why do I know about 40+ year old design standards? That should have been obvious long before you posted accusations rather than ask technical questions.

    AC electricity is 60 Hz. I should not have to explain this. That means AC electricity power cycles (goes on and off) 120 times a second. So why does AC electricity power cycle 120 times a second and not create destructive spikes? Spikes are another myth created by insufficient electrical knowledge or by knowledge from observation.

    OP was given two recommendations. To identify the reason for his intermittent modem and to eliminate future problems.
    For one we are not there to troubleshoot his problem, we can only offer advice and seeing as how he doesn't know much about the topic it would be kind of pointless to train him over the internet. While yes you may have more experience then me, I'm not someone that "shotguns" solutions as I can only offer advice over the forums and am not there in person. The best advice is to contact his ISP. Also I'm an engineer by craft myself as I contract in a nuclear power plant and do residential and once in awhile some commercial work.

    I didn't mean that reading numbers or following the ground wire to the ground rod is "difficult" but I'm not going to advise someone over the internet to do it. Yes they should ask questions but have it be in person. What if they don't no the difference between a bare ground wire and a hot or neutral? We also don't know how old the house is. There is a lot of variables to take in to consideration. And no you don't have to explain AC electricity to me as I've worked with a group who controls the Logic function cards for control on a PWR that generates that electricity for a consumer. All it comes down to is we are not there and can only offer advice, I think we can both agree on this. I'm not going to bother further arguing as it is pointless but yes brown outs or cars hitting a power pole etc. can cause damage but it is a very small chance and has happened before. As I said we don't know all the details. While you are probably older then me don't think you are "superior" or underestimate me as well we haven't met, and I asked for qualifications since for all I know I'm talking to some one who doesn't know jack shit or I am talking to some one with more field experience.

    As for design experience I've done layouts for houses etc. and have mapped systems at a power plant and as of late I've been training as a programmer and I follow a logical design pattern when designing a program. Also a lot of my background from troubleshooting has helped me in coding as debugging is a big part.
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  7. #27
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    We periodically get a technician who never learned how to think through a problem. Who only shotgunned. And somehow knows only from observation. Engineers then retrain that tech to 'follow the evidence'. Techs were retrained even back when our modems were 300 baud. When modems could only be purchased from AT&T. Back then, cable TV (something new) cost between $4 and $8 per month. And your design experience is how extensive?

    Any layman can inspect an earth ground or read dB numbers from a server (if it exists in the OP's modem). We even send a teenage kid to do the inspection. It is that 'difficult'. Gives the kid an opportunity to learn something. Anybody can trace a wire to a ground rod. Apparently you believe inspection requires a rocket scientist.

    A homeowner that cannot inspect his ground rod must learn; to ask questions. Since the homeowner and only the homeowner is responsible for that electrode.

    Power loss does not cause damage, does not create destructive spikes, and does not explain an intermittent modem. Even international design standards, years before the IBM PC existed, required electronics to be powered by any voltage down to zero without damage. The low voltage region even included this expression: No Damage Region. Why do I know about 40+ year old design standards? That should have been obvious long before you posted accusations rather than ask technical questions.

    AC electricity is 60 Hz. I should not have to explain this. That means AC electricity power cycles (goes on and off) 120 times a second. So why does AC electricity power cycle 120 times a second and not create destructive spikes? Spikes are another myth created by insufficient electrical knowledge or by knowledge from observation.

    OP was given two recommendations. To identify the reason for his intermittent modem and to eliminate future problems.
    another thing to consider is that many houses built 20-50 years ago don't have a grounding rod, they ground to the plumbing, mine does, i wouldn't be able to inspect the ground wires without ripping holes in the walls

    and yes, telling someone over the internet to go inspecting house wiring is just bad, it's about that same as telling a kid to go play in traffic

    "follow the evidence" is great for the TV show, but then there is reality, most of the time you have to narrow down the problem by elimination, and you rely on your own knowledge and experience to make conclusions based on what you find

    sure, you can log into the modem, most commonly it's 192.168.100.1, and ideally you want db numbers between 30-45, or you can look at the grounding rod for some stupid reason, but static build up in the line is generally covered by the fact that the cable box outside is grounded, and often the line itself is grounded

    or you can look at the fact that there was a power outage, (btw, refusing to believe something exists does not magically make it go away) and that after the power outage the modem has problems

    by telling the OP to look elsewhere you are effectively calling the OP a liar, you are suggesting that the problem was there all along and that the OP is lying about not having problems before the power outage, aside from being rude and unprofessional, it clearly demonstrates that you don't have as much knowledge of the subject and related subjects as you think you do

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  8. #28
    Major Stawser has been shot. Round up the usual suspects.

    Each irrelevant solution is another 'usual suspect'. Nuke 'n Pave a computer because some other box (the modem) is intemittent? Somehow a UPS does magic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    ... i wouldn't be able to inspect the ground wires without ripping holes in the walls
    A safety code violation is relevant to the OP's intermittent modem? Basic electrician's knowledge says that ground must be available for inspection. You dd not even know that was a code violation? But somehow know more about electronics?

    OP cannot inspect a ground electrode because Cyanotical lets his code violation remain? To be consistent with so many previous posts: Format a computer to inspect a hidden water pipe ground. Or avoid death by not inspecting a ground electrode.

    OP obtains a useful reply by first providing simple information. Information that any layman or teenager can provide. OP is cautioned about so many who post bogus or useless recommendations - the usual suspects.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    Major Stawser has been shot. Round up the usual suspects.

    Each irrelevant solution is another 'usual suspect'. Nuke 'n Pave a computer because some other box (the modem) is intemittent? Somehow a UPS does magic? A safety code violation is relevant to the OP's intermittent modem? Basic electrician's knowledge says that ground must be available for inspection. You dd not even know that was a code violation? But somehow know more about electronics?

    OP cannot inspect a ground electrode because Cyanotical lets his code violation remain? To be consistent with so many previous posts: Format a computer to inspect a hidden water pipe ground. Or avoid death by not inspecting a ground electrode.

    OP obtains a useful reply by first providing simple information. Information that any layman or teenager can provide. OP is cautioned about so many who post bogus or useless recommendations - the usual suspects.
    Honestly I've come to conclusions you're just some troll that wants people to mess with shit they may have never dealt with. Any self-respecting electrician/engineer would advise the OP to contact his ISP. Also I'm pretty sure Cyanotical knows more about electronic hardware with a computer then you and me both. But as far as house wiring goes Cyan is right, if the house is old they used to ground it to old copper plumbing pipes and back then its not a code violation. You claim to know so much but yet overlook that if the house does not violate code violations of the time it is built it is within its correct parameters. Just go home and stop acting liking you know so much but offer so little.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    Major Stawser has been shot. Round up the usual suspects.

    Each irrelevant solution is another 'usual suspect'. Nuke 'n Pave a computer because some other box (the modem) is intemittent? Somehow a UPS does magic? A safety code violation is relevant to the OP's intermittent modem? Basic electrician's knowledge says that ground must be available for inspection. You dd not even know that was a code violation? But somehow know more about electronics?

    OP cannot inspect a ground electrode because Cyanotical lets his code violation remain? To be consistent with so many previous posts: Format a computer to inspect a hidden water pipe ground. Or avoid death by not inspecting a ground electrode.

    OP obtains a useful reply by first providing simple information. Information that any layman or teenager can provide. OP is cautioned about so many who post bogus or useless recommendations - the usual suspects.
    wow, just wow

    okay, a few things:

    first, your "shotgun approach" is nothing more than a strawman argument against the number 1 and most widely accepted rule of troubleshooting in many fields: 'replace suspected bad with known good" this is covered in every single repair manual, and is just common sense, but lets look at the first part, "suspected bad" how do we know what to suspect, knowledge and experience, if you take the CSI approach, you will have every thing in pieces while you sit there with a multi-meter and an oscilloscope scratching your head for hours on end, meanwhile a good tech would have fixed the problem in a few minutes

    second, the format approach, formatting is generally bad, but it comes down to a simple algorithm: if the time needed to repair the software problem is longer than the time it takes to back up data, format and re-install, then format it, otherwise fix it

    third, how do you relate formating from grounding?

    fourth, with limited knowledge I'm sure you would think a UPS does magic

    fifth, as Imanerd pointed out, safety codes are grandfathered, here's a link in case you don't know what that means

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  11. #31
    Guys. What the hell. It's pretty obvious somewhere between his LAN to the ISP. However, the actual breakdown can be virtually anywhere technically. (Flaky connections are a classic.)

    The simplest would be to eliminate the obvious ones:
    Does the internet function the same with all devices? Does wired vs wireless impact anything? What happens if the router is not a part of the loop anymore? Does this change it?

    When only one device has an issue, I'd look into that device and troubleshoot it. If several devices have internet issues, it's probably between router and ISP. Remove the router from the equation to figure out if it's the modem. If problems persist, it's either the modem or further down the line. Regardless, at this point you inform the ISP of your problems and, if a new modem does not fix it, request a technician.

    It really doesn't have to be more complex than that. No matter what sort of expertise is involved, basic elimination of possible factors that are within your control doesn't have to require a degree in engineering.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    It's pretty obvious somewhere between his LAN to the ISP.
    Gets a dB number from the modem's server. Then all those question are answered without so much labor. Without even disconnecting one wire.

    Too many never learned how to solve a problem so quickly. And post derogatory comments because they never learned. Enter the address for the modem's server. Read one or two dB numbers. Immediately know what is causing the intermittent. Or provide that number so that the few who actually know this stuff will provide an answer without doubt or wild speculation.

    Amazing how one dB number creates reams of posts generated only by fear.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    Guys. What the hell. It's pretty obvious somewhere between his LAN to the ISP. However, the actual breakdown can be virtually anywhere technically. (Flaky connections are a classic.)

    The simplest would be to eliminate the obvious ones:
    Does the internet function the same with all devices? Does wired vs wireless impact anything? What happens if the router is not a part of the loop anymore? Does this change it?

    When only one device has an issue, I'd look into that device and troubleshoot it. If several devices have internet issues, it's probably between router and ISP. Remove the router from the equation to figure out if it's the modem. If problems persist, it's either the modem or further down the line. Regardless, at this point you inform the ISP of your problems and, if a new modem does not fix it, request a technician.

    It really doesn't have to be more complex than that. No matter what sort of expertise is involved, basic elimination of possible factors that are within your control doesn't have to require a degree in engineering.
    That's exactly what me and Cyan said...... The OP stated he has issues with his modem after a power outage and since we don't know what type of outage or the cause we can't really say more then to contact the ISP.
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