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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by VanishO2 View Post
    But a dps DK can't taunt anymore...

    It's like rogues popping their defensive cds and tanking for a few seconds too... rogues are hybrid! omg! lol
    Wrong, Death Grip is a taunt, and all death knights have it.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Misuteri View Post
    I leveled as a Boomkin 80-90 and I have to say that it was quite possibly, no nix that, definitely the hardest class and spec I've ever leveled.
    I agree, I was Feral pre-Pandaria and thought I'd try ranged dps'ing to level up in Mists . . . didn't realize how comparatively poor Boomkin was to other dps till I started working on my Paladin and Priest. Was taking down quest mobs and (damn) Sunsong Ranch vermin way way easier/faster on my Priest and Pally.

  3. #103
    Brewmaster xindykawai's Avatar
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    i wonder what is the new % of gear drop rate in lfr

    The chance of getting personal loot in Raid Finder and the chance of a successful bonus roll in Raid Finder have been greatly increased for the 5.0 raids.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Omnislash7777 View Post
    Pretty sure you have no idea how ret pallies worked back in cata. Their healing was a farcry to how it was when the expansion dropped because of WoG not having a cooldown. You don't have to gaslight an argument by quoting webster, we all know what the real definition of hybrid is that doesn't change the fact that it's WoW lingo for a class that is capable of doing something else besides DPS. Just keep your mouth shut please.
    Lol did I play Cata? Did you? Ret paladins were the healers in triple DPS setups. Their healing was insane if it crit. Not only that but it was instant.

    Ret paladins have always been warrior/healer hybrids. True hybrids. They can both fight and heal effectively. That's why their sustained damage suffers because they are hard to balance.

    Do you guys really want to keep arguing this point? You're just arguing for the sake of argument.

    I don't care what Blizzard or WoWwiki has decided what hybrid means. In the real world it means something that is a cross between different things, and in WoW's case, a spec that can perform two or more different roles *at the same time*. Or in WoW's case, without needing to respec.

    Quote Originally Posted by FeliciaMarie View Post
    LOL.Yes, they are. They can DPS and tank. Hybrid = class that can perform more than one role.
    Ok dude, show me a DPS warrior that can tank an heroic raid boss without tanking gear. At the moment they wouldn't be able to do it without a prot spec.

    Warriors were a DPS/tank hybrid and actually still are a bit in PVP because a DPS warrior can swap to a shield and use tank abilities to reduce damage, but in PVE, they are SPECIALISTS.

    If Blizzard told you that the sun was made of cheese, would you believe that too?

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Ret paladins have always been warrior/healer hybrids. True hybrids. They can both fight and heal effectively. That's why their sustained damage suffers because they are hard to balance.

    Ok dude, show me a DPS warrior that can tank an heroic raid boss without tanking gear. At the moment they wouldn't be able to do it without a prot spec.

    Warriors were a DPS/tank hybrid and actually still are a bit in PVP because a DPS warrior can swap to a shield and use tank abilities to reduce damage, but in PVE, they are SPECIALISTS.

    If Blizzard told you that the sun was made of cheese, would you believe that too?
    A dps-warrior can tank for ~20 sec - about the same time that a paladin can solo-heal a specced tank. So what's the difference?

    And yes - If Blizzard told me the sun shinning over Azeroth was made of cheese, I'd believe it - although I'd start to wonder wtf they where taking at Blizz HQ to mess around with the lore like that

  6. #106
    Blizzard sure is trying to get me to play my shaman again.

    Warender - Orc Elemental Shaman - Mal'Ganis US

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Lol did I play Cata? Did you? Ret paladins were the healers in triple DPS setups. Their healing was insane if it crit. Not only that but it was instant.

    Ret paladins have always been warrior/healer hybrids. True hybrids. They can both fight and heal effectively. That's why their sustained damage suffers because they are hard to balance.

    Do you guys really want to keep arguing this point? You're just arguing for the sake of argument.

    I don't care what Blizzard or WoWwiki has decided what hybrid means. In the real world it means something that is a cross between different things, and in WoW's case, a spec that can perform two or more different roles *at the same time*. Or in WoW's case, without needing to respec.



    Ok dude, show me a DPS warrior that can tank an heroic raid boss without tanking gear. At the moment they wouldn't be able to do it without a prot spec.

    Warriors were a DPS/tank hybrid and actually still are a bit in PVP because a DPS warrior can swap to a shield and use tank abilities to reduce damage, but in PVE, they are SPECIALISTS.

    If Blizzard told you that the sun was made of cheese, would you believe that too?
    So your argument is that a dps warrior can't tank a heroic raid boss. Well no balance druid/spriest/ele shaman/ret pala can heal a heroic raid boss. If they could groups would go with 0 healing specced classes. Just because they can help healing doesn't mean they can effectively heal the entire boss encounter. So what point are you trying to make with saying dps specced warriors can't tank? DUH

    Where do YOU draw the line between "effective" and "they can't do it". In the end what you think doesn't matter at all. The fact is that there is no class in the game that can fully replace a tank/healer with their non tank/healing spec. FACT

  8. #108
    Banned Bigbamboozal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolftech View Post
    The least Ghostcrawler could have done was provide some KY Jelly before raping mages.
    1: they had it coming 2: if I was GC you'd get your ky, but it would have a whole truckload of sand in that little tiny container. lol

    @hybrid delusion guy: get a grip. More than one role =/= hybrid. One role =/=pure. You can tell us over and over whatever you like, the sky is green the sky is green! DOES NOT CHANGE REALITY. You really believe that? Or are you just bored?

    @boomkins: shutit. You've no right to complain, we all seen your bursts.

    Shaman got the buff for sm'ele, enh was rough to face in arena what with wolves so shutit, resto has no real problems, shutit.

    Warriors: you needed the execute nerf so also shutit.

    Spriest: you needed an assgrinding and you know it, so shutit.

    Locks, we all agreed blood fear needed the nerf, but it got shafted, ah well, fun while it lasted. No complaints here.

    Everyone else...uh...shutit? lol just kidding everyone.....My point is guys, wait til we log on and see how it works before we hoist the 'oh noes' flag up high for all to see yah? We can speculate lots, but the proof of everything comes out in raids and arena, eventually.
    Fingers crossed for everyone to find a bit of happiness this patch

  9. #109
    So Official notes say nothing about the new Engineer crafted items.... sad patch day =\

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Sorry dude, but ret paladins were healing on heroic Rag in Firelands because their healing was so good.

    They are still a true warrior/healer hybrid, which is why they are so hard to balance.

    Ret healing was amazing in Firelands and 4.3. Read above.

    And I am talking about the actual definition of hybrid.
    We're not talking about the actual dictionary definition of the word "hybrid". We are talking about the accepted definition of "hybrid class" in the game World of Warcraft.

    A "hybrid class" in the game World of Warcraft is a class that is capable of speccing into more than one of the following roles: Healer, Tank, DPS.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by FalinMor View Post
    We're not talking about the actual dictionary definition of the word "hybrid". We are talking about the accepted definition of "hybrid class" in the game World of Warcraft.

    A "hybrid class" in the game World of Warcraft is a class that is capable of speccing into more than one of the following roles: Healer, Tank, DPS.
    Don't fight with him Falin. He doesn't care about the Wow definition. Can we just move this conversation on?

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    Not necessarily true, everybody I knew in vanilla considered hybrids to be the classes that had to balance all stats ie shamans/pallies/druids. Since then, however, the meaning has evolved to mean simply more than one role.
    Well, GC actually mentioned some time ago that for some reason warriors were (incorrectly) treated as a pure class in classic. However, his (and that of the developers) view is that the only "pure" classes out there are ones that can do only one role (regardless of spec). So, if you have a class that can do more than one role (tank + dps, tank + heal, dps + heal), it is a hybrid.

    In the truest sense of the word, as the developers design the game and say "this is how it works", the only "true dps" classes are rogue, mage, warlock, and hunter. Their classes have exactly one role and none others. Anything else is a hybrid.

    Now we can get into dictionary definitions, we can get into opinions, but ultimately none of that matters as it isn't relevant to how the game is designed. The designers have decreed "this" is their definition and we must align our expectations accordingly. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of the game doesn't move the discussion forward to more interesting and relevant things at all.
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  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    @boomkins: shutit. You've no right to complain, we all seen your bursts.

    Spriest: you needed an assgrinding and you know it, so shutit.

    Locks, we all agreed blood fear needed the nerf, but it got shafted, ah well, fun while it lasted. No complaints here.
    Boomkin sustained is still low, having higher than average burst isn't compensation.

    Spriests still need dps cooldown.

    Locks and mages still op on ptr (in pve).

  14. #114
    Warchief Viscoe's Avatar
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    This whole hybrid vs non-hybrid argument is dumb and off-topic.

    There are in-game words that mean in-game things. Hybrid is one of them. A hybrid in WoW is anyone who isn't a hunter, lock, rogue, or mage.

    The same as how a mob in-game is a mobile unit AKA monster/NPC, not a group of people. And prox is proximity aggro, when you pull a mob by being too close to it, not "in or of the next month after the present." And a taunt is not you telling someone their father smelled of elderberries, but rather forcing a boss to strike you. And a warrior is a class, not a description, and a mage isn't a magician who pulls rabbits out of hats, and "arcane" doesn't mean "understood by few." And so on and so forth.

    I mean, just like the word "fag" has different meanings in different languages, "hybrid" carries a different meaning in WoW lingo than it does in the real world. Anyone saying otherwise is just arguing for the sake of arguing and is an obnoxious pedant.

    OT: I've mained a BM hunter since TBC and am so glad they didn't nerf me. I remember Wrath and how it was a terrible, horrible spec. I'm happy to have been on top for a bit and NOT be completely decommissioned afterwards. Also, I'm sort of hoping the buffs to everyone else will make it so all the fotm people get out of my spec. >.> Also, thank goodness for the buffs to my bear druid. I was really hoping to get back into playing him with 5/2 (as he is my favorite alt) and I welcome anything to make it easier with open arms!
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Felora View Post
    I wonder if blizzard is even aware that shadow priests wont be taken to raids because they suck. I always thought its normal for s.priests to do low damage obviously because they are a hybrid class. But then i think , deathknights are hybrid too and they do pretty good dps.

    I give up. I totally give up.
    my sp does great dps. i dont think they suck at all

  16. #116
    Blademaster apokalypce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crious View Post
    Wrong, Death Grip is a taunt, and all death knights have it.
    Death Grip can be a cc, you can glyph out of the taunt.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by xindykawai View Post
    i wonder what is the new % of gear drop rate in lfr
    when it comes to pve, i wholeheartedly agree with this change. Since pve gear is no lonbger viable in pvp, i say give everyone purpz for attending esp in lfr. the gear is subpar to normal gear anyhwo and it only enables more players to feel the point of playing the game.

    Pvp gear should be more of a grind / less handed out due to the nature of the game. anyone else agree?

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Lol did I play Cata? Did you? Ret paladins were the healers in triple DPS setups. Their healing was insane if it crit. Not only that but it was instant.

    Ret paladins have always been warrior/healer hybrids. True hybrids. They can both fight and heal effectively. That's why their sustained damage suffers because they are hard to balance.

    Do you guys really want to keep arguing this point? You're just arguing for the sake of argument.

    I don't care what Blizzard or WoWwiki has decided what hybrid means. In the real world it means something that is a cross between different things, and in WoW's case, a spec that can perform two or more different roles *at the same time*. Or in WoW's case, without needing to respec.



    Ok dude, show me a DPS warrior that can tank an heroic raid boss without tanking gear. At the moment they wouldn't be able to do it without a prot spec.

    Warriors were a DPS/tank hybrid and actually still are a bit in PVP because a DPS warrior can swap to a shield and use tank abilities to reduce damage, but in PVE, they are SPECIALISTS.

    If Blizzard told you that the sun was made of cheese, would you believe that too?
    Ret paladins in cata could not solo heal tanks in heroic raids either, so I suppose that doesn't make them true hybrids either. If you want to argue this, then I implore you, show me a WoL parse where a ret paladin is doing any significant healing at all.

    Protip; hybrid cars don't use their electric engine and their combustion engine at the same time, does that mean they're not actually hybrids?

    Currently ret paladins have sustained problems because their burst damage is ridiculously high for a very long period of time. In a 480 ilvl I can sustain 150k burst for around 30 seconds. It has nothing to do with their healing and everything to do with fight mechanics. If the boss was a patchwork fight, ret would be middle of the pack, which is typically a pretty good place to be.

    Um, I've tank heroic raid bosses quite easily for short periods of time on my fury warrior. Having a shield to put your armor up to tank levels, and using Shield Wall is enough to straight face tank a heroic raid boss for the duration, after which you can use Die by the Sword. You'll buy roughly 20 seconds where you'll be guaranteed to live (unless the boss has a magic attack) and you can potentially tank for longer if your healers can roll CDs on you. If you don't know this, then I pity your guild, because you obviously aren't utilizing your class abilities correctly.

    If Blizzard told me that the sun in game was made of cheese, I'd have to believe them, because they designed the game and could very easily make the in game sun cheese.

  19. #119
    Dreadlord Dawnseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    I don't care what Blizzard or WoWwiki has decided what hybrid means. In the real world it means something that is a cross between different things, and in WoW's case, a spec that can perform two or more different roles *at the same time*. Or in WoW's case, without needing to respec.
    I have no idea why haven't dropped this argument already, you're just looking foolish. The discussion was what a hybrid is/was IN WoW. Nobody needs any lessons otherwise. If, within the context of WoW, you want to have your own personal definition of what "hybrid" is that's fine, but admit that it's your own definition. If you talk about hybrids to anyone else playing the game they're going to be thinking of every class that isn't pure. Try not to get upset that all of the other players aren't on your page on that.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Lol did I play Cata? Did you? Ret paladins were the healers in triple DPS setups. Their healing was insane if it crit. Not only that but it was instant.

    Ret paladins have always been warrior/healer hybrids. True hybrids. They can both fight and heal effectively. That's why their sustained damage suffers because they are hard to balance.

    Do you guys really want to keep arguing this point? You're just arguing for the sake of argument.

    I don't care what Blizzard or WoWwiki has decided what hybrid means. In the real world it means something that is a cross between different things, and in WoW's case, a spec that can perform two or more different roles *at the same time*. Or in WoW's case, without needing to respec.



    Ok dude, show me a DPS warrior that can tank an heroic raid boss without tanking gear. At the moment they wouldn't be able to do it without a prot spec.

    Warriors were a DPS/tank hybrid and actually still are a bit in PVP because a DPS warrior can swap to a shield and use tank abilities to reduce damage, but in PVE, they are SPECIALISTS.

    If Blizzard told you that the sun was made of cheese, would you believe that too?

    Actually, our fury warrior tanked Heroic Sha in P2 from time to time to cover the odd naked/dread thrash, and it was for a solid 10-20 seconds at that. Our Frost DKs did the same, so your argument is pretty dumb, tbh.

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