5.2 PvE - What Spec?

[eschatological]

Wtf, i just simmed it in FD with my current gear and MM sims highest and then i didn't even change to the MM haste plateau:O
I used the same settings on all, reforge crit -> mast -> haste, 10 minute fight, 20% in KS and 20% in CA phase, 30ms and ptr.
The only thing i changed was the MM specifik settings.
I checked "disable arcane shot while CA is active" and "Disable GT while CA is active" and these ->

Imp SS behavior - SS in pairs if ISS has <= 4 sec left
AiS behavior - manual cast during CA and instant
Chimera shot careful aim behavior - delay until <=2.9 sec left on sting

The results ->

BM - 120496.52
SV - 118075.58 (-2420.94)
MM - 120649.87 (+2574.29)

I think you're overestimating how much time will be spent in CA phase. 20% of the boss's health doesn't necessarily mean 20% of the time of the fight, especially on fights where you hero at the start.

[Saoron]

What i'm getting currently:

BM: 110297
SV: 105357
MM: 107338

cri>mastery>haste. It'll just depend on how the fights interact with pets. I'm hoping the issues are fixed and I can continue to use BM/SV.

[Deleted]

I'm completely BiS and here's what I got:
Most FD settings left at default

BM -128,654 : http://www.femaledwarf.com/?setting_id=8524
SV - 125,049 : http://www.femaledwarf.com/?setting_id=8523
MM - FD won't sim this for me ATM, iPad throwing a wobble I think

*Edit*
I got out of bed coz no MM sim was bugging me, it's not working, will try again this afternoon

[clevin]

You just compared a 3% difference in the strength of a building material which has nothing else effecting it to a 3% difference in something that is effected by multiple other sources. The RNG from crits, MMM procs, and MM mastery will make a bigger difference than these supposed theoretical numbers. At a certain point (which could certainly be debated like anything else), statistical error and RNG will begin to have a bigger impact than anything else and I personally would say it's safe to say that 3% is well within that limit.

Precisely. The civil engineering example is meaningless.... My entire point is that when specs are within 3% of each other on a patchwerk style fight then your skill, mistakes and RNG will swamp the theoretical differences between the specs as will the specifics of the fight. Sadly, there's a mindless contingent that will obsess over the tiniest difference in sims and declare one spec the best and the others as trash no matter how small the differences.

[Deleted]

Nice to see I can play what I just feel more comfortable playing (SV) till we at some point run into sub 1% wipes on ST fights where I would go back to BM. Seeing as they want to be really liberal with the enrage timers in 5.2 I am guessing this will not even happen till heroic progression.

[Saoron]

You just compared a 3% difference in the strength of a building material which has nothing else effecting it to a 3% difference in something that is effected by multiple other sources. The RNG from crits, MMM procs, and MM mastery will make a bigger difference than these supposed theoretical numbers. At a certain point (which could certainly be debated like anything else), statistical error and RNG will begin to have a bigger impact than anything else and I personally would say it's safe to say that 3% is well within that limit.

Precisely. The civil engineering example is meaningless.... My entire point is that when specs are within 3% of each other on a patchwerk style fight then your skill, mistakes and RNG will swamp the theoretical differences between the specs as will the specifics of the fight. Sadly, there's a mindless contingent that will obsess over the tiniest difference in sims and declare one spec the best and the others as trash no matter how small the differences.

Once again people trying to talk about things they know nothing about or have anything to do with. There ARE a lot of factors influencing that 3%. Certain materials have greater flexibility, have more 'give', but are generally weaker when it comes to load baring. Certain materials fair stronger against certain extreme temperatures, either cold or hot. Whether it will be exposed to water or not. All depending on the location (or 'fight') of the build. But like I said, if it's a low paying job for a meaningless client, you could go with any material and it wouldn't make a difference. Frankly if you think that the entire theorycrafting community and ALL the top players in the world are just morons who just go look at sims and say AMG HERPDY DERP this spec is DE BEST single target.. I'ma use dis!. Then that speaks for your intelligence. We know the sims calculate based on a patchwerk style fight (generally speaking, some can evaluate multi target and aoe) and if you'd bothered reading the thread at all, all we've been discussing is the specifics of the fights. Whether the pure single target fights are pet friendly or not. Whether the 'buffs' transfer to your pet or not. Making BM less valuable on fights that don't. MM would inch ahead since it's less reliant on pets. And 3% is frikin HUGE lol. If BM were to be at 120k, and SV was 3% behind, that'd put it at 116400. Hypothetically if you apply that difference to multiple fights and an idiot was playing SV for fights like Baleroc, or Ultraxion, or Garalon (given that is role was just to tunnel the boss). Any raid leader with half a brain would and should have kicked him in an instant.

Also, these sims don't just run one simulation and then give the results. They run multiple reiterations, in some cases hundreds. More than enough to account for RNG, within a reasonable amount. We know it simulates a 'perfect' scenario, we know reality is different, we know how each fight affects each spec. There still is this thing called an enrage timer. And certain fights are very tightly tuned around it. Method had plenty of sub 5% wipes on a number of bosses this tier. If they were all players like you and played w/e they felt like it, they would not be where they are now. Same goes with any guild competing for rankings, be it top 100 or top 1000. World first or server first. If you're not skilled or intelligent enough to understand that then like I said, say that it doesn't matter to you, and then gtfo. If it doesn't matter to you personally, it's fine. But if you imply all the min/maxers in the world are idiots wasting their time, then that's different.

[Faloestin]

Once again people trying to talk about things they know nothing about or have anything to do with. There ARE a lot of factors influencing that 3%.

[snip]

But if you imply all the min/maxers in the world are idiots wasting their time, then that's different.

I hope you'll both admit this is a bit silly. Yes, 3% is significant, in context. Yes, 3% is a lot less than whatever +/-% you want to assign to skill for the vast majority of players out there (certainly including me). I'd guess that for most raid leaders, the most important skill somebody can bring to the team whether or not they regularly show up on time.

[Meleti]

SV seems REALLY good.

[Deleted]

Looking at wowprogress most guys in top guilds are playing Survival. May depend on the fight though, can't wait to get home and try it out