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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    http://i.imgur.com/r8WeeFG.png

    Currently the reverberating meta is better than the legendary for SMF. >_>

    (Just keep in mind that this is really early data.)
    Lol!. But what about the meta gem adjustments made a few hours ago?

    Well, I'd still play Arms for the better part of the expac, since it's a lot more fun to play now at the very least.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    Lol!. But what about the meta gem adjustments made a few hours ago?

    Well, I'd still play Arms for the better part of the expac, since it's a lot more fun to play now at the very least.
    Like Kaljurei, I’m much more of an Arms player who went Fury for his offspec (main spec mid-tier) because Arms was horrible to play, and garbage.

    I’m not 100% sure both of those have changed, unfortunately. :<
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  3. #23
    I was Fury for all of one day when LFR Shin'ka dropped. As soon as I upgraded it so it was better than my Starshatter, I went back to Arms. It's just more aesthetically pleasing to me. I think TG looks really silly, using 1h animations with 2h weapons, in particular the Raging Blow animation is really lame.

    I was really disappointed with 5.0 Arms in terms of PvE playstyle and made a loooot of noise about it during MoP's beta. I'm not entirely convinced that 5.2 is going to be much better in terms of "feel" but the damage at least should look a bit tastier. I still think Arms needs the old Deadly Calm back, and maybe Incite/Battle Trance like in 4.3, that was a nice mechanic to watch out for.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    2: In a scenario like this:

    BT-CS-

    Where you get a raging blow proc from both the BT and the CS, it was doing the following:

    BT-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB

    Which was wasting a charge of raging blow about half the time. I added in this line above bloodthirst:

    actions+=/raging_blow,if=buff.raging_blow.stack=2&debuff.colossus_smash.up&target.health.pct>=20

    which forced it to do:

    BT-CS-RB-RB-BT-RB

    Which netted around 700~ dps. Simcraft already tries to "save" a raging blow proc for colossus smash, and it was being wasted. This change benefited TG a little more than SMF, which did close the gap between the two ever so slightly.
    I don't know how your second sequence could in any way lead to less wasted RB charges. You're just delaying BT for no reason whatsoever.

    The only way you lose an RB charge with either sequence is if you start it while already having a charge and both BT and CS crit. So the actual sequence that doesn't waste charges would be:

    BT-RB-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB

    This sequence would only be used if the first BT crits, and then needs both CS and the second BT to crit.

  5. #25
    I've despised fury this expansion and last really. It just feels too clunky for me. I'm happy to see Arms get a nice boost in the PVE circuit, maybe now I won't be the bottom of the meters!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    I don't know how your second sequence could in any way lead to less wasted RB charges. You're just delaying BT for no reason whatsoever.

    The only way you lose an RB charge with either sequence is if you start it while already having a charge and both BT and CS crit. So the actual sequence that doesn't waste charges would be:

    BT-RB-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB

    This sequence would only be used if the first BT crits, and then needs both CS and the second BT to crit.
    You realize the reason we don't use RB there is because we WANT to use RB during CS? We aren't guaranteed crits by any means on bloodthirst, so saving RB for CS is a DPS increase. Otherwise, you could end up with...

    BT-RB-CS-BT-RB-WS-WS

    CS doesn't proc enrage very often, so delaying BT 1 gcd for more RBs during CS is the better choice.
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2013-03-06 at 09:27 PM.

  7. #27
    Stood in the Fire lordzed83's Avatar
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    Fury got pvp buffs thanks blizzard i can continue to play this spec
    Geme smtn 2 kielllllll.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    You realize the reason we don't use RB there is because we WANT to use RB during CS? We aren't guaranteed crits by any means on bloodthirst, so saving RB for CS is a DPS increase. Otherwise, you could end up with...

    BT-RB-CS-WS-BT-RB-WS

    CS doesn't proc enrage very often, so delaying BT 1 gcd for more RBs during CS is the better choice.
    You completely missed my point. Your "improved" sequence does exactly the same damage as the normal one, but delays BT for no reason at all.

  9. #29
    I am Murloc! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    Oh no! You'll have to go in Battle Stance to do damage! The sky is falling!!
    No our health is falling at a rate that is impossible to live through. But congrats you 1400 scrubs got what you wanted, rogues killing you in cheapshots.
    You, you'll regret what you have done this day, I will make you regret ever being born, you're going to wish you never left your mother's womb, where it was warm and safe and wet, I am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you're going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainbow!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ep65rr-9qjQ Full Pilot Episode! Best thing to come out of Adult Swim!

  10. #30
    I seem to be doing slightly more dps single target as arms and massively more aoe dps with the deep wounds buff. First raid tonight will see how it goes

  11. #31
    dont wana start a new topic so ill crash this one,
    Do you guys intend to start using Wild Strike now, outside of CS debuff? I mean since it costs 0 rage now i dont see any reasons not to use it while BT is on cooldown and colossus smash debuff isnt on.

  12. #32
    I don't understand how that rotation change would help to not waste a charge as if BT crits and CS crits you have 2 charges already, you use 1 charge then BT again with the standard rotation meaning you havent wasted a charge unless you go into that CS with one charge but the other rotation you mentioned doesn't fix that as its the first BT and CS proccing enrage that wastes charges, you would have to CS before the first BT then RB to avoid wasting a charge, unless im jsut not seeing it.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    You completely missed my point. Your "improved" sequence does exactly the same damage as the normal one, but delays BT for no reason at all.
    actions=auto_attack
    actions+=/mogu_power_potion,if=(target.health.pct<20&buff.recklessness.up)|buff.bloodlust.react|targ et.time_to_die<=25
    actions+=/bloodbath,use_off_gcd=1,if=talent.bloodbath.enabled&(cooldown.colossus_smash.remains<2|deb uff.colossus_smash.remains>=5|target.time_to_die<=20)
    actions+=/recklessness,use_off_gcd=1,if=(talent.avatar.enabled&(cooldown.colossus_smash.remains<2|de buff.colossus_smash.remains>=5))|(talent.bloodbath.enabled&(buff.bloodbath.up&(target.time _to_die>192|target.health.pct<20)))|target.time_to_die<=12
    actions+=/avatar,use_off_gcd=1,if=buff.recklessness.up&talent.avatar.enabled
    actions+=/skull_banner,use_off_gcd=1,if=buff.recklessness.up
    actions+=/use_item,name=gauntlets_of_the_last_mogu,use_off_gcd=1,if=(!talent.bloodbath.enabled&debuf f.colossus_smash.up)|(talent.bloodbath.enabled&buff.bloodbath.up)
    actions+=/berserker_rage,use_off_gcd=1,if=!(buff.enrage.react|(buff.raging_blow.react=2&target.healt h.pct>=20))|(buff.recklessness.remains>=10&!buff.raging_blow.react)
    actions+=/heroic_leap,use_off_gcd=1,if=debuff.colossus_smash.up
    actions+=/heroic_strike,use_off_gcd=1,if=((debuff.colossus_smash.up&rage>=40)&target.health.pct>=20) |rage>=110
    actions+=/raging_blow,if=buff.raging_blow.stack=2&debuff.colossus_smash.up&target.health.pct>=20
    actions+=/bloodthirst,if=!(target.health.pct<20&debuff.colossus_smash.up&rage>=30)
    actions+=/wild_strike,if=buff.bloodsurge.react&target.health.pct>=20&cooldown.bloodthirst.remains<=1
    actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.bloodthirst.remains,if=!(target.health.pct<20&debuff.colossus_smash.up&r age>=30)&cooldown.bloodthirst.remains<=1&cooldown.bloodthirst.remains
    actions+=/dragon_roar,if=talent.dragon_roar.enabled&(!debuff.colossus_smash.up&buff.bloodbath.up)
    actions+=/colossus_smash
    actions+=/execute,if=buff.enrage.up|debuff.colossus_smash.up|rage>90|target.time_to_die<12|buff.reck lessness.up
    actions+=/storm_bolt,if=talent.storm_bolt.enabled
    actions+=/raging_blow,if=buff.raging_blow.stack=2|(buff.raging_blow.up&(debuff.colossus_smash.up|coo ldown.colossus_smash.remains>=3|(cooldown.bloodthirst.remains>=1&buff.raging_blow.remains< =3)))
    actions+=/wild_strike,if=buff.bloodsurge.react
    actions+=/shockwave,if=talent.shockwave.enabled
    actions+=/heroic_throw,if=debuff.colossus_smash.down
    actions+=/battle_shout,if=rage<70&!debuff.colossus_smash.up
    actions+=/wild_strike,if=debuff.colossus_smash.up&target.health.pct>=20
    actions+=/impending_victory,if=talent.impending_victory.enabled&target.health.pct>=20
    actions+=/wild_strike,if=cooldown.colossus_smash.remains>=2&rage>=80&target.health.pct>=20
    actions+=/battle_shout,if=rage<70


    Please explain how it is delaying bloodthirst when it doesn't have to. But before you do, plug that into simcraft, run it, then delete that line and notice how the character loses 700 dps. This is currently being used by default by the sim, if you download the updated version.

    That line will only activate when colossus smash is on the target pre-execute phase when raging blow has 2 stacks up. If those conditions aren't up, the line never activates.
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2013-03-06 at 09:42 PM.

  14. #34
    I understand in simcraft it shows as more dps but It doesnt make sense when playing, if you go into a CS with one charge and follow either rotation you waste charges with both, the only difference is you delay BT in one for no reason other than to dump 2 rb charges even though you could dump 1 and then proc back up to 2 anyway. Maybe its better to use rb charges before the CS instead of saving them or is simcraft expecting a 2pc proc inbetween or something.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    *snip*
    Not to be insulting, but as many people have stated, your rotation changes nothing. You still end up losing raging blow charges your way, except you delay BT. I don't care what simcraft says, look at your rotation and tell me what that fixes exactly. Simcraft is not the bible, use your own head.

  16. #36
    I find these arguments both hilarious and absurd. How about a difference of opinion: I play both. When I get bored with one spec I'll switch for the other. I constantly change what I'm doing. Hell I've alternated between the two after every boss fight.

    While data may state that this spec is better than that spec given "ideal" situations, player styles and preferences will dictate which is truly more effective for that person. Not everyone plays the same exact way, therefore things will be different.

  17. #37
    the line itself is correct, but i'm shocked he himself doesn't realise why. this is how it works:

    BT - Filler(1 stack after it) - CS(crit, 2 stacks) - RB(delaying BT) - BT - RB - Filler(depending on previous BT)

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ThisOne View Post
    the line itself is correct, but i'm shocked he himself doesn't realise why. this is how it works:

    BT - Filler(1 stack after it) - CS(crit, 2 stacks) - RB(delaying BT) - BT - RB - Filler(depending on previous BT)
    Isnt that delaying BT and CS then?

  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    I'll give arms another try this patch. arms always was more fun to play (for me). Fury always felt like if you're screwed by RNG, that you had nothing to do. I'm sitting at ~28% crit raidbuffed (which is not that bad for an offspec gear with still two pieces blue), and I had streaks between two beserker rages with no BT and no CS crit, thus no RB for 24 seconds, and at the same time, WS didn't proc also. and those streaks weren't exactly rare. which caused my DPS to drop harder than skrillex drops his bass, because I had pretty much nothing else to do than HS (or non-procced-WS) sometimes. which is pretty frustrating.

    Arms, especially now after 5.2, you ALWAYS have a button to press. and you're swimming in rage. You press MS, you instantly have two uses of OP, so basically, the rotation looks like CS - MS - OP - OP - repeat. Replace CS with OP if it is on CD, and replace it with slam if you have no OP stacks. and when you have excess rage, HS. aoeing, you replace some of those OPs with CD, use Sweeping strikes every 10 seconds and replace every remaining OP's with WW if the rage allows it. and if still rage is no issue, just cleave instead of HS.

    I'm still just wondering if Storm bolt is worth taking. It crits for about 340k on dummies (MS is ~190k crits, OP ~90k, slam 90k non crit, as a comparison, all with CS up). on the other hand, Avatar is a no brainer for 24 seconds and can be perfectly bound to Reck and SB - all have a three minute CD.

    Bloodbath... I dunno. I have it as tank (it helps my miserable AoE threat (it keeps being miserable, but it makes it a bit better), and here the 1 min cd is nice), but as DPS, being possible to line up three strong CDs at once sounds quite strong.

    oh and on dummy, I do about 5k more dps as arms than as fury, with my gear and my skill^^ so I think, I'm gonna go with arms. good by crappy fury RNG based gameplay.

  20. #40
    Because dummy dps == actual raid dps? It's never been true, not in BC, not in Wrath, not in Cata and certainly not now.

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