Mage Bomb in 5.2

[jtmzac]

i think it was more along the line of fire mages using living bomb in every situation, and it didn't make it feel like much of a choice between talents. same trouble with the lvl 90 talents, every fire mage took invocation.

Every fire mage and frost mage uses invocation now and will also use it in 5.2.

We really don't have many options in the ways of talents/glyphs and its only getting worse.

[elpadrino293]

Every fire mage and frost mage uses invocation now and will also use it in 5.2.

We really don't have many options in the ways of talents/glyphs and its only getting worse.

which is of course why they've said they have changes in mind, including scrapping an entire talent, but that it is a bad time to do it. although i am not sure why it was okay to change our others talents around this patch, and not the level 90 talents.

[Elegiac]

i think it was more along the line of fire mages using living bomb in every situation, and it didn't make it feel like much of a choice between talents. same trouble with the lvl 90 talents, every fire mage took invocation.

And there still is little choice. Because of their trinket design, Nether Tempest is pretty much the clear choice.

[Polarthief]

None of them are particularly unique. In fact, that Tier of talents should be scrapped, Living Bomb made baseline for Fire again.

Or make NT baseline for the entire class, which turns into LB for Fire. That way, Arcane and Frost can benefit from DoT trinkets and not be the only two casters speccs in the game that CAN'T procc DoT trinkets.

Then your guild is doing it "wrong*", or people are cleaving/single targeting the boss, We do burn tac as well, Nuking on the 8th scalpel tanks eat 4 pools each. I have been using NT on reshaped tanks, has never been a problem.
*but then again if you have proper raid dps, reshaped tanks should go down fast enough without NT, so its not a "problem" any way, as its only burn and not loosing stacks on monstrosity that is important in that strat. I do not use AP during the ramp up in ph1 because when i do tank goes down so fast i get in trouble with stack timer before next scalpel :P

*edit: Gz on zorlok btw(what a bitch ><)

On topic ill agree the change to FB glyph and the Proc on dot trinkets(again.. facepalm) makes anything other than NT pretty useless. The only thing that made LB come out very slightly ahead on 2 fights this tier was the glyph and nothing else. Guess blizzard felt our aoe was too strong(lol)

Oh it's not like I NEED to, it's just that the extra cleave damage is anything but helpful when we lose a strike or two because of it.

Heh, thanks

Too strong AoE despite being the class with the weakest AoE in the game (with the exception of Frost with Frozen Orb or Frost Bomb shatters, but no one will be raiding competitively as Frost because it pales in comparison to Fire anyways)

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 07:05 PM ----------

which is of course why they've said they have changes in mind, including scrapping an entire talent, but that it is a bad time to do it. although i am not sure why it was okay to change our others talents around this patch, and not the level 90 talents.

RoP or IW are the ones that need scrapping. As annoying as Invo is, with the changes it's getting tomorrow, it's starting to grow on me... Like a symbiotic tumor.

RoP and IW are just malignant tumors. Evil and parasitic.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 07:06 PM ----------

And there still is little choice. Because of their trinket design, Nether Tempest is pretty much the clear choice.

There really isn't any choice left. The most choice we get is T1 and T4, as well as what garbage glyphs we want to use.

[elpadrino293]

And there still is little choice. Because of their trinket design, Nether Tempest is pretty much the clear choice.

if one were so inclined to use Frost Bomb, you could just as easily use the Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance rather than the Breath of the Hydra. the only real trade off is crit instead of haste, with the exact same proc, but only half the duration and double the frequency.

[Polarthief]

if one were so inclined to use Frost Bomb, you could just as easily use the Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance rather than the Breath of the Hydra. the only real trade off is crit instead of haste, with the exact same proc, but only half the duration and double the frequency.

I'm actually kinda curious with Cha-Ye's procc rate in regards to Shatter... Probably nothing, but it never hurts to think about it.

Also, does the trinket count crit suppression?

[elpadrino293]

RoP or IW are the ones that need scrapping. As annoying as Invo is, with the changes it's getting tomorrow, it's starting to grow on me... Like a symbiotic tumor.

i for one am quite found of fire as it is now, and i do not welcome the changes to living bomb, invocation, or pryoblast/ignite/combustion.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 04:19 PM ----------

Also, does the trinket count crit suppression?

it should.

[Akraen]

I base my gameplay around Nether Tempest.

I even use it on current tier fights like Heroic Windlord Mel'jarak. I find I can exceed my frostbomb DPS by using NT even on that fight.

[jtmzac]

if one were so inclined to use Frost Bomb, you could just as easily use the Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance rather than the Breath of the Hydra. the only real trade off is crit instead of haste, with the exact same proc, but only half the duration and double the frequency.

This is what I plan on doing unless its a massive dps loss. You can always use nt without breath of the hydra but you can't use frost bomb with it.

I'm actually kinda curious with Cha-Ye's procc rate in regards to Shatter... Probably nothing, but it never hurts to think about it.

Also, does the trinket count crit suppression?

In regards to shatter? Frost and fire should do enough enough crits to proc it easily.

The trinket is passive crit with an int proc. Since crit suppression is a 3% reduction I don't see how it would affect the trinket.

[Polarthief]

i for one am quite found of fire as it is now, and i do not welcome the changes to living bomb, invocation, or pryoblast/ignite/combustion.

I don't like the 10% nerf for the first 40s of combat, but I welcome the QoL change.

Would love some love for our overall QoL though as we're still one of the most QoL-starved classes through this expansion.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 07:24 PM ----------

In regards to shatter? Frost and fire should do enough crits to proc it easily.

I meant if shatters would technically increase the procc rate. I'm guessing it's not because it's not actually on our character sheets.

[jtmzac]

I don't think the invocation change is really a QoL improvement apart from pre-pull and unexpected pulls. Its really just making mages easier.

[Polarthief]

I don't think the invocation change is really a QoL improvement apart from pre-pull and unexpected pulls. Its really just making mages easier.

You've never had your invo interrupted?

It helps with RNG so much, as well as it's a matter of being out of every fight for so long (6s out of every 35~45s, being changed to 3s out of every 55~65s)

[jtmzac]

You've never had your invo interrupted?

I have had it interrupted but only very rarely. I like the longer channel time on the current invocation because its one of the few things I find challenging as frost.

I think the longer duration will mean it will line up with boss moves which is both good and bad.

[Polarthief]

I have had it interupted but only very rarely. I like the longer channel time on the current invocation because its one of the few things I find challenging as frost.

I think the benefit of the longer duration is it will line up with boss moves which is both a good and bad.

... *Blinks*

How is pushing a button and doing nothing for 4.5-5.5s "challenging" in any way? Is it engaging to a fight? Is there some difficulty in doing so?

I'm not trying to discredit your post, but I can't begin to imagine what you're trying to say. Invocation was just a huge PITA annoyance to babysit as it is on live. On PTR, it just makes it half a PITA.

When you want to consider using RoP over Invo because Invo takes an eternity to cast, you know something's broken.

[jtmzac]

It's challenging because you have to make an educated guess and decide if you can stand still for the next 5 seconds to channel it.

Since I started raiding in 4.3 and played arcane I always found it interesting have to channel evocating around boss mechnics. Thats just what I find fun.

[Polarthief]

It's challenging because you have to make an educated guess and decide if you can stand still for the next 5 seconds to channel it.

That's not challenging, that's just RNG.

[elpadrino293]

I don't like the 10% nerf for the first 40s of combat, but I welcome the QoL change.

the -8% damage from the invocation buff going to 15%, and then an additional -10% from the pyroblast nerf, does absolutely nothing positive in respect to combustion. to keep roughly 3.5% crit on fireball and pryoblast, we lose 10% direct damage on our spell best single spell, and consequently our big ignites and combustions. yeah, we will have some additional casting time freed up by going from a 6sec to a 3sec channel, but that will not make up for the lost combustion damage. and we lose the ability to Inferno Blast, Evocation, Fireball (or living bomb if needed) and Inferno blast again as it comes off cooldown for a guaranteed pyroblast proc each and every time we refresh our Invoker's Energy buff. and then actually having to change targets to multi-dot rather than simply using my inferno blast... which is a incredibly weak for the QoL which we have grown accustomed to over the years. le sigh

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 04:40 PM ----------

How is pushing a button and doing nothing for 4.5-5.5s "challenging" in any way?.

how is pressing any button(s) challenging? it's not. it is a matter of pressing those buttons AT THE ABSOLUTE BEST TIME that presents the challenge. how is standing in a rune of power for 60 seconds challenging? isn't it a matter of RNG if fire, or something else that can kill you, spawns under your feet and forces you to move?

[Polarthief]

how is pressing any button(s) challenging? it's not. it is a matter of pressing those buttons AT THE ABSOLUTE BEST TIME that presents the challenge.

Guessing if a puddle with drop on you in the next 5 seconds is not engaging in any way, nor does it add "challenge". It adds yet another bullshit luck factor.

[jtmzac]

That's not challenging, that's just RNG.

I'd say its more like 20% rng and 80% skill/experience/knowledge.

Reward without risk is boring.

[Firebert]

Or make NT baseline for the entire class, which turns into LB for Fire. That way, Arcane and Frost can benefit from DoT trinkets and not be the only two casters speccs in the game that CAN'T procc DoT trinkets.

I can proc DoT trinkets, because I have LB, and I'm Arcane.

RoP or IW are the ones that need scrapping. As annoying as Invo is, with the changes it's getting tomorrow, it's starting to grow on me... Like a symbiotic tumor.

RoP and IW are just malignant tumors. Evil and parasitic.

I don't see how the best and the worst mobility option in the tier is "evil and parasitic".