Power Auras VS Weak Auras

[Machinelf]

POWA is to WA as Healbot is to Vuhdo, as Windows is to Linux.
Weakauras is the reason I still play wow. At 2800 auras and counting, I just can't stop.

[blackblade]

aside from debuffs and buffs what all can you do with weak auras? Im trying to expand my horizons

Thank you for the info Scathbais

I used it as a mini dot-timer, that had icons appear when dots were coming close to falling off. I also used it as a power-bar replacement as a demo-lock (because the actual number was a bit more important than the visualization, so I had WA spell it out for me.)

[Resike]

POWA is to WA as Healbot is to Vuhdo, as Windows is to Linux.
Weakauras is the reason I still play wow. At 2800 auras and counting, I just can't stop.

I don't get why don't you play wow from linux then.

[Deleted]

im also one of those who has always sticked to pac even though the support shrinked up until it didnt work anymore. i always found wa ways too overcomplicated. but as i had to switch over i used some really awesome tuts on youtube and now ild never look back. its soo much prettier and offers more functionilty. in my current ui i use it to show internal cds, active cds, cds on cooldown and a priority list. alone by the fact that it could replace ntk and was much better to copy onto alts made me never look back.
older view on my interface (tukui with jsb) where only the mid left things are wa related. priority list and cds are self explainatory i think. further left are the internal cds. if the pic is up., the buff is active.


this guys tuts helped me alot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzqf6WEpUU0

[Resike]

I think you meant for normal cds and not internal ones.

[a21fa7c67f26f6d49a20c2c51]

I'm stuck in America this week and don't have access to a warcraft computer to double check this so you'll have to forgive me if I misspeak.

1. Well you can't make gradient colos for textures with WA
1. you cant change the texture z orientation
2. WA only supports 2 blend mode for textures while PA 5.
3. can't change the color of the icons, can't rotate icons, can't mirror icons
4. You cant filter buffs/debuffs by tooltip, makes buffs with same name impossible to differ.
5. The textures image quality is worst then in PA
6. Cant mirror textures other then X symmetry.
7. The performance of the animations way more weaker then in PA.
8. The textures image quality is worst then in PA, while the file size and memory and cpu useage is way more heavier.

• Animation -> gradient (pick options), or did you mean something else?
• I didn't even know this was a thing you could do with textures: what's the name of the API for that -- it might be worth writing a patch for.
• Blend modes in wow are disabled/blend/add (supported by WA) but it's missing mod/blend/alphakey from the drop down? I think you could add those by just adding "WeakAuras.blend_types[MOD] = 'Mod'" etc. to an on trigger in an aura that fires on addon_loaded/player_entering_world. I'll play with it when I get home.
• WeakAuras supports several types of aura. Icon is inteded to be the simplist graphical option for when you don't need a "fancy stuff". If you want rotation etc then you'd use a texture aura and set the texture name to the path of the icon you want to use. Color change is possible with icons - I recall using it in a tutorial video. Rotation/mirror shouldn't be in there though -- those are features for Texture aura types.
• Enable the "fullscan" option and then you can: it's disabled by default because it can be CPU intensive but once it's on you can get stacks/size info from tooltip in the standard way and you can differentiate between two spells with the same name (eg. Sacred Shield) by using spell id.
• I know you aren't trying to claim that PAC has access to 'higher quality' textures that come bundled with wow (everyone is using the same icons etc) so you must be talking about the bundled textures. As far as I can tell the textures that WA and PAC have in common are identical [url=http://i.imgur.com/Nlhi2Ul.png]a comparison of the most recent versions of PAC and WA as of this morning. What do you mean by this claim?
• Mirror x + rotate 180° is mathematically identical to Mirror Y (just look at the transformation matrix for mirror Y vs the product of mirror X/rotate 180). This is untrue.
• . These two are interesting claims and worth testing. - I think we should probably agree on some sort of a benchmark before we take this one too seriously. I'm not in a position to test it right now but if you want to gather some evidence to support it then I'm sure we'd all be very interested.

Well if you can code in lua, then you could do this with all addons, it's pretty much just an editbox in the addon.

Yes, WeakAuras just has some edit boxes where you can type code. That's one of the things that makes it amazing. If somebody knows how to program with Lua then WA lets them do anything they like. People who can't program but understand how to copy/paste an import string gain access to their knowledge and additional functionality without needing to install custom pluggins, plead their cases to addon maintainers, or hacking addons themselves and being responsible for ensuring their changes don't break.

You're a great example of the sorts of issue WA works around. I posted half a dozen things that WA makes easy to do -- I pulled them from examples we've seen on these forums so they're things people actually want to do. You dismissed most of them with phrases like "99% of the users would never use such a function", "a line into the code, the question do i really want to support that", "I thinks it's way too handicapped", "i think it's pointless." You're not even willing to add "1 line of code" to help people: fine, that's your right -- but it does kinda suck for the people would really like that functionality.

On the other hand WA doesn't depend on the whims of a single capricious maintainer to add functionality. You mentioned GTFO support: something WA doesn't ship with and likely never will. PAC has "very simple" support for GTFO -- you pretty much just install both addons and they'll work together. If PAC didn't support GTFO (just like it doesn't support integration with SCT or Auctioneer or Skada) then the users would be out of luck if you thought it was "pointless".

On the other hand somebody could post a question here and have a hope in hell of getting a response. Lets use GTFO as an example:

-- Make a new aura: any type, any, size, any name: you'll never see it.
Tigger: Custom -> Event
Event(s): player_entering_world, addon_loaded
function()
if not touchy_wa_gtfo then
  touchy_wa_gtfo = true
  hooksecurefunction("GTFO_DisplayAura", function(e) WeakAuras.ScanEvents('touchy_wa_gtfo', e)l end)
end

From then on you can create any aura you like that triggers on gtfo events by just setting the trigger to custom/event and setting the event to touchy_wa_gtfo. If you want to trigger on just certain gtfo events then you'd add function(event,...) local i = select(1, ...); if i == 4 then return true end; end where 3 is an integer from 1-4 that relates to the GTFO type (loud noise, friendly fire, ping etc).

I could make that an import string and you're off to the races using it as a "driver" for other auras or I could go the rest of the way and make a full aura that makes fire on your screen and plays some sounds whenever you're standing in a fire that GTFO is warning you about. All you have to do is cut/paste the import string and it works.

I'm not sure what is this.

There were a few things I think you missunderstood. I think it's easier to post them in the form of examples:

• I would like auras that remind me to recast debuffs on a mob not to display if the time-to-live for that mob is less than the length that the dot lasts. Can i have PAC auras do that?
• I would like to have auras to track any buff I gain that is <= 60 seconds. I would like them sorted from "least time left" to most time left".
• Can I make auras that sort/organize themselves as they do in CLCret based on what is "best to use next"?
• Can I recreate the Coolline style cooldown tracker.
• Can I recreate the ForteExorcist style dot tracker: keeping tabs an HoTs or DoTs I've cast on an arbitrary number of mobs.
• I would rather have time remaining on DoTs displayed as "ticks" rather than "seconds". Can I do that with PAC?
• An aura that automatically removes "spam" calendar invitations (like the one gold sellers were using about 3 weeks ago).
• Suppose I want to make an aura that shows time to craft bolts of cloth. I want to use a progress bar. I go to the trade skills window, I select "create all" and it makes anywhere from 1 - 500 bolts of cloth depending on what I have in my bags. Can i make an aura that displays a progress bar that show how long I should walk away from my computer for? It should be red if I should go make coffee (>= 5 minutes), yellow if I should just grab a beer from the fridge (> 1 minutes, < 5 minutes), and green if it won't be long (< 60 seconds).

[Resike]

I'm stuck in America this week and don't have access to a warcraft computer to double check this so you'll have to forgive me if I misspeak.

• Animation -> gradient (pick options), or did you mean something else?
  - I meant to colorize a white texture not just as a vertex color but as horizontal/vertical gradient colors.
• I didn't even know this was a thing you could do with textures: what's the name of the API for that -- it might be worth writing a patch for.
  - http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widge...n/SetDrawLayer
• Blend modes in wow are disabled/blend/add (supported by WA) but it's missing mod/blend/alphakey from the drop down? I think you could add those by just adding "WeakAuras.blend_types[MOD] = 'Mod'" etc. to an on trigger in an aura that fires on addon_loaded/player_entering_world. I'll play with it when I get home.
  - Nah "Add" mode is'nt added for WA, at least for the latest release. I think it' usefull since it makes the white-grey colors in the textures transparent.
• WeakAuras supports several types of aura. Icon is inteded to be the simplist graphical option for when you don't need a "fancy stuff". If you want rotation etc then you'd use a texture aura and set the texture name to the path of the icon you want to use. Color change is possible with icons - I recall using it in a tutorial video. Rotation/mirror shouldn't be in there though -- those are features for Texture aura types.
• Enable the "fullscan" option and then you can: it's disabled by default because it can be CPU intensive but once it's on you can get stacks/size info from tooltip in the standard way and you can differentiate between two spells with the same name (eg. Sacred Shield) by using spell id.
  - Yes it's working fine but eating fuckloads of cpu time and memory, while searching a text in a tooltip costs nothing.
• I know you aren't trying to claim that PAC has access to 'higher quality' textures that come bundled with wow (everyone is using the same icons etc) so you must be talking about the bundled textures. As far as I can tell the textures that WA and PAC have in common are identical [url=http://i.imgur.com/Nlhi2Ul.png]a comparison of the most recent versions of PAC and WA as of this morning. What do you mean by this claim?
  - I don't think you downloaded it from? http://www.wowinterface.com/download...oPVersion.html. Or you can check the alpha releases from: http://resike.github.io/PowerAuras/.
  Anyway here is the comparison:
  http://i.imgur.com/i61UsJ3.png
  http://i.imgur.com/mcSKy15.png
• Mirror x + rotate 180° is mathematically identical to Mirror Y (just look at the transformation matrix for mirror Y vs the product of mirror X/rotate 180). This is untrue.
  - Yes but missing XY mirroring, you cant do that by rotating.
• . These two are interesting claims and worth testing. - I think we should probably agree on some sort of a benchmark before we take this one too seriously. I'm not in a position to test it right now but if you want to gather some evidence to support it then I'm sure we'd all be very interested.
  - Might be true, but there is no way WA consumes less resources since it has more configureable settings and stuff.

Yes, WeakAuras just has some edit boxes where you can type code. That's one of the things that makes it amazing. If somebody knows how to program with Lua then WA lets them do anything they like. People who can't program but understand how to copy/paste an import string gain access to their knowledge and additional functionality without needing to install custom pluggins, plead their cases to addon maintainers, or hacking addons themselves and being responsible for ensuring their changes don't break.

You're a great example of the sorts of issue WA works around. I posted half a dozen things that WA makes easy to do -- I pulled them from examples we've seen on these forums so they're things people actually want to do. You dismissed most of them with phrases like "99% of the users would never use such a function", "a line into the code, the question do i really want to support that", "I thinks it's way too handicapped", "i think it's pointless." You're not even willing to add "1 line of code" to help people: fine, that's your right -- but it does kinda suck for the people would really like that functionality.
- Well before i add a new option first i ask will anyone ever use it? It is worth the time to code, and the resouces is it takes?

On the other hand WA doesn't depend on the whims of a single capricious maintainer to add functionality. You mentioned GTFO support: something WA doesn't ship with and likely never will. PAC has "very simple" support for GTFO -- you pretty much just install both addons and they'll work together. If PAC didn't support GTFO (just like it doesn't support integration with SCT or Auctioneer or Skada) then the users would be out of luck if you thought it was "pointless".
- Well it would be cool if me or pretty much any other former author/maintainer would get some support. But it's not easy to find proper peeps who qualified for such a stuff. Like i can't even get translators from my addons.

On the other hand somebody could post a question here and have a hope in hell of getting a response. Lets use GTFO as an example:

-- Make a new aura: any type, any, size, any name: you'll never see it.
Tigger: Custom -> Event
Event(s): player_entering_world, addon_loaded
function()
if not touchy_wa_gtfo then
  touchy_wa_gtfo = true
  hooksecurefunction("GTFO_DisplayAura", function(e) WeakAuras.ScanEvents('touchy_wa_gtfo', e)l end)
end

From then on you can create any aura you like that triggers on gtfo events by just setting the trigger to custom/event and setting the event to touchy_wa_gtfo. If you want to trigger on just certain gtfo events then you'd add function(event,...) local i = select(1, ...); if i == 4 then return true end; end where 3 is an integer from 1-4 that relates to the GTFO type (loud noise, friendly fire, ping etc).

I could make that an import string and you're off to the races using it as a "driver" for other auras or I could go the rest of the way and make a full aura that makes fire on your screen and plays some sounds whenever you're standing in a fire that GTFO is warning you about. All you have to do is cut/paste the import string and it works.

There were a few things I think you missunderstood. I think it's easier to post them in the form of examples:

• I would like auras that remind me to recast debuffs on a mob not to display if the time-to-live for that mob is less than the length that the dot lasts. Can i have PAC auras do that?
  - You can there is an invert aura when timer below slider for it. And pretty much you use that on an already inverted aura.
• I would like to have auras to track any buff I gain that is <= 60 seconds. I would like them sorted from "least time left" to most time left".
  - Well PA can't do this.
• Can I make auras that sort/organize themselves as they do in CLCret based on what is "best to use next"?
  - You can't, but never was intended to do that.
• Can I recreate the Coolline style cooldown tracker.
  - I don't even know whats that.
• Can I recreate the ForteExorcist style dot tracker: keeping tabs an HoTs or DoTs I've cast on an arbitrary number of mobs.
  - I don't really like that kinda ability trackers.
• I would rather have time remaining on DoTs displayed as "ticks" rather than "seconds". Can I do that with PAC?
  - Nop, but i'm not sure how accurate is this, does it count in haste? If not then not that hard to code, if it does then it's requires way too much useless tables from lvl1 to lvl90 for every class which contains haste bonus. Also the spell list which it works with. Since i don't think this info is reachable from the API.
• An aura that automatically removes "spam" calendar invitations (like the one gold sellers were using about 3 weeks ago).
  - Nop.
• Suppose I want to make an aura that shows time to craft bolts of cloth. I want to use a progress bar. I go to the trade skills window, I select "create all" and it makes anywhere from 1 - 500 bolts of cloth depending on what I have in my bags. Can i make an aura that displays a progress bar that show how long I should walk away from my computer for? It should be red if I should go make coffee (>= 5 minutes), yellow if I should just grab a beer from the fridge (> 1 minutes, < 5 minutes), and green if it won't be long (< 60 seconds).
  - Nop, but Quartz do that by default, and it's pretty much the best "casting bar" mod.

Also here is some showcase vid from the latest Powa release:

[Deleted]

I think you meant for normal cds and not internal ones.

internal cds (trinkets)

[Resike]

internal cds (trinkets)

I see, but since i'm pretty much WA doesnt store icd information for all trinkets/spells/items, you need to create icd timers manually, and you can pretty much do this with PA too as a simple aura.

[Deleted]

didnt know there was an option to start a cd after a buff appeared. common solution back then (wotlk) was to do it with ntk especially if you wanted timer + bars.

[a21fa7c67f26f6d49a20c2c51]

I'm going to put your points in bold so that this post doesn't get too long. I think a lot of this is boiling do to you not being familar with Weak Auras.I'm also going to focus on the thing I originally called you out on -- "PAC can can recreate a UI and has a number of features that WA does not". I'll get back to you on texutres/gradients when I have access to a PC.

Nah "Add" mode is'nt added for WA, at least for the latest release.
It's called "glow" and listed under the "Blend mode" dropdown. The types are defined in WeakAuras/Types.lua on line 198 if you want to check for yourself.

- Yes but missing XY mirroring, you cant do that by rotating.
Transforming images is a pretty similar application of linear algebra. Remember back to like 10th grade or whenever the hell you studied it:
Arbitrary rotation about the origin: {{cos(x), -sin(x)}, {sin(x), cos(x)}
Reflection across the Y axis: {{-1,0},{0,1}}
Reflection across the X axis: {{1,0},{0,-1}}
Combine the reflection matrices by taking the dot product and you get -1*Identity which is exactly the same as solving the arbitrary rotation matrix with X=180°.

Can you please explain what you mean because I don't see a difference.

(responding to a question about auras that don't display if the time-to-die for a boss is lower than the length of time for a DOT ticks for). You can there is an invert aura when timer below slider for it.
How do I set the maximum value of that timer to "15 seconds before the boss dies"?

- Might be true, but there is no way WA consumes less resources since it has more configureable settings and stuff.
The weak auras configuration interface isn't loaded until it's needed and can be disabled entirely once you've configured your UI. Once auras are configured and saved it doesn't matter whether or not I set them in a configuration dialog or you set them in a lua file: they're identical as far as the interpreter is concerned. You're making this claim, I think you should provide a bit of evidence.

Anyway, we've come a long way but the conversation has ended up like this:

Others: WeakAuras is very flexible - you can do pretty much anything that you could with an addon, but we don't recommend it.

You: not like you can't create a whole ui with powa.…

Me: What about these things that people have created for their UI with Weak Auras

You:

• Well PA can't do this.
• You can't, but never was intended to do that.
• I don't even know whats that.
• I don't really like that kinda ability trackers.
• Nop, but i'm not sure how accurate is this, does it count in haste? If not then not that hard to code, if it does then it's requires way too much useless tables
• Nop.
• Nop, but Quartz do that by default
• I'm pretty sure 99% of the users would never use such a function.
• do i really want to support that?
• I don't get why would a texture manipulatior addon support that
• I thinks it's way too handicapped if you need <certain PVE auras>
• i think it's pointless.

Me: So then what you meant to say was "Weak Auras is more capable than power auras in many ways but it doesn't let you set a 2-color gradient color on a texture" but accidentally said "you can do pretty much everything you could in WA can with PAC, including recreating a UI"?

I think maybe you underestimated just how much people have started using WA to improve their interface. PAC might have been fine when all people wanted was a picture on the screen when they gained a buff or a spell was cast. These days people have become a lot more demanding and the rather dated trigger/event/etc. patterns in PAC are causing people to reject it. It's simply not up to the task the way it was 3 years ago.

The claim about recreating a UI in PAC is starting to seem pretty difficult to maintain and I think you'll look a bit foolish if you try and stick to it. My goal wasn't to embarras you but I think you should consider withdrawing your old claims and retreating to a more reasonable position.

[Resike]

Nah "Add" mode is'nt added for WA, at least for the latest release.
It's called "glow" and listed under the "Blend mode" dropdown. The types are defined in WeakAuras/Types.lua on line 198 if you want to check for yourself.
My bad i was actually meant for "Mod" mode. WA doesn't support that.

- Yes but missing XY mirroring, you cant do that by rotating.
Transforming images is a pretty similar application of linear algebra. Remember back to like 10th grade or whenever the hell you studied it:
Arbitrary rotation about the origin: {{cos(x), -sin(x)}, {sin(x), cos(x)}
Reflection across the Y axis: {{-1,0},{0,1}}
Reflection across the X axis: {{1,0},{0,-1}}
Combine the reflection matrices by taking the dot product and you get -1*Identity which is exactly the same as solving the arbitrary rotation matrix with X=180°.
Can you please explain what you mean because I don't see a difference.
XY rotating means you mirror the texture on X then you mirror the mirrored texture on Y afterwards.

(responding to a question about auras that don't display if the time-to-die for a boss is lower than the length of time for a DOT ticks for). You can there is an invert aura when timer below slider for it.
How do I set the maximum value of that timer to "15 seconds before the boss dies"?
Well your question havn't contained any boss die function. And i can't really see how could an addon predict this accurately.

- Might be true, but there is no way WA consumes less resources since it has more configureable settings and stuff.
The weak auras configuration interface isn't loaded until it's needed and can be disabled entirely once you've configured your UI. Once auras are configured and saved it doesn't matter whether or not I set them in a configuration dialog or you set them in a lua file: they're identical as far as the interpreter is concerned. You're making this claim, I think you should provide a bit of evidence.
Well with 1 texture in WA i get more memory usage, then with 20 in PA.

The claim about recreating a UI in PAC is starting to seem pretty difficult to maintain and I think you'll look a bit foolish if you try and stick to it. My goal wasn't to embarras you but I think you should consider withdrawing your old claims and retreating to a more reasonable position.

Well you can if you are dedicated enough, you can get hp, mana values for everyone, targets, focus, boss1-5, arena1-5, combo points, holy powers, any other powers, stances, seals, presences, rage, energy, any other power bar, raid/party members. Thats pretty much enough for a basic ui.

[Machinelf]

>Can I make auras that sort/organize themselves as they do in CLCret based on what is "best to use next"?

Absolutely, via Dynamic Groups in Weakauras I've done exactly this for all classes and specs every spec, both offensive and defensive, with crazy situations throw in like Turning Undead if they are undead etc. Better than addons like CLCret because(a) it's customizable (b) you see more than 1 or 2 options available (c) YOU control abiltities in there (d) you can update it whenever you want and not have to wait through an addon breaking patch

And... I can use this setup on new toons rather than copy pasting the WTF files every time I make a change.

[a21fa7c67f26f6d49a20c2c51]

My bad i was actually meant for "Mod" mode. WA doesn't support that.

d0ZCcaqyfTlPuBdH6NuOzIq(TsnBQ05ru3uQ40G62OYTKI2jQQ9cTBkTFvJsKk)fOgNuOVHKgQiHbtA4iLdQeNsKQoMcCofQltSueXIvqlhWdfj6PswMuYZrzIkPPsftMQMUWfPGVkv5zsLUoiBePYIKc2mfz7uuFuKIzHuvtdiFxKKhJQ8zrmAKy8kKtksQZksPRjv19qQYkf1WqWRrKghGoyXHLhlp6GLhMrZDs2rgfyT49SRSnNCvgfaZRmjcyBc7ASV2tMKUabmzyfaWjjca6GvqMMGfpiwS5Wsml2aRuszgx7im2mrWIhel2CyzcYYlG320L(NVE961MnVAWoh6kxzBo5QmkaMxh6kwpSn5k32lSNVE96vytxT74Apzs6ceWK1EORy9GdY0ew7ogxVgue7ZxVE961RxV2tMKUabmzTh6kwp4GmnH1UJX1R07AdD2(gE(61RxfR)5RxVEfqcia7vttxM8Sy9p)8Zp)8Zp)8Zp)mwqwXSydSMqXglEqSyZboittWsml2alXSydgwPGOL0AGeWg47yGKuZpnG7zKeIwP)1L1vJ8btKXLvdRyXdIfBoWuG9cwbmN4XalajbEBDittWkKrbwPc2huq6O24acJ7sGaXe3iOXuh3cn1euFSSqCoaWjjcad5palypwlE)v6KzabimSOiWjucKoIP2VpOw9PcIk1Uea1TfAQjOXy5UNE0blGTRGoyXb5gWOdgyGbgyXWcOlHwyzg5paebcyGia

Import that aura and /console reloadui. you'll be able to create texture/progress texture auras with the MOD blend mode using the standard configuration UI. Auras created with the new blend mode will work for people who import them even if you don't pass them this one.

I'm sure you could modify that to add any others you wanted so I won't waste your time. I think that the fact you aren't doing due-diligence when posting is unfortunate. How many times are you going to assert weak auras can X just to have somebody point out "oh yes you can - just look here!"? If you're trying to win people back to an addon that is—in many important ways—inferior I think the least you can do is show a bit of intellectual honesty when arguing it's strengths. How do you expect anybody to give your updates a shot when you're prepared to be dishonest about the competition and overstate it's capabilities. Do you really want to disappoint a bunch of people while wasting their time in the process?

Well your question havn't contained any boss die function. And i can't really see how could an addon predict this accurately.

I'll quote my post so you can read it more carefully:

I would like auras that remind me to recast debuffs on a mob not to display if the time-to-live for that mob is less than the length that the dot lasts.

I think that's pretty bloody explicit about wanting the length of time a mob is likely to be alive to factor into the aura's display conditions. TimeToDie does a pretty good job, but it's not hard to do similar estimation that is "accurate enough" with weak auras if you'd rather not hook into the addon.

XY rotating means you mirror the texture on X then you mirror the mirrored texture on Y afterwards.

If you have a point in R2 and Reflect X, then take the resulting point and Reflect Y you've just done Rotate 180 but less efficiently. I even posted the matrices so that you could follow the math because it seems like English isn't your first language and I wanted to be very clear. Do you not understand how numbers work?

Well you can if you are dedicated enough, you can get hp, mana values for everyone, targets, focus, boss1-5, arena1-5, combo points, holy powers, any other powers, stances, seals, presences, rage, energy, any other power bar, raid/party members. Thats pretty much enough for a basic ui.

But not enough for good cast bars, chat filtering, durability/latency/framerate info, damage meters, buff/debuff trackers, etc.

It's okay to be wrong about something. You underestimated the capabilities of another addon, you overstated the capabilities of one that you've taken over, and then you got called on it. That doesn't have to be bad! You were ignorant, you're better informed now. It's okay to admit your mistakes.

Rather than clinging to the idea that PAC does a whole bunch of things that WA can't, why not focus on it's strengths? People seem to be less frightened by it's configuration dialog and that counts for something. It's okay to prefer a less capable addon but it's silly to argue that everyone must share your opinions (or worse, to deny that it's less capable in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary).

Absolutely, via Dynamic Groups in Weakauras I've done exactly this for every spec

I was asking if I cold do it with PAC. There are actually better (more comprehensive ways) to do it with WA by exploiting the animation functions but it's beyond the scope of this post to describe them. Dynamic groups will get the job done as well as most of the popular addons of this type and that's good enough.

[Resike]

Import that aura and /console reloadui. you'll be able to create texture/progress texture auras with the MOD blend mode using the standard configuration UI. Auras created with the new blend mode will work for people who import them even if you don't pass them this one.
- Yes it's much easier the get a 500 lenght string then click another button from the dropdown menu.

I'm sure you could modify that to add any others you wanted so I won't waste your time. I think that the fact you aren't doing due-diligence when posting is unfortunate. How many times are you going to assert weak auras can X just to have somebody point out "oh yes you can - just look here!"? If you're trying to win people back to an addon that is—in many important ways—inferior I think the least you can do is show a bit of intellectual honesty when arguing it's strengths. How do you expect anybody to give your updates a shot when you're prepared to be dishonest about the competition and overstate it's capabilities. Do you really want to disappoint a bunch of people while wasting their time in the process?
- Well you pointed that out WA can do EVERYTHING that PA can. Which is obv. wrong. Also ppl saying PA has no support and dead is wrong too. And if you think WA has more users then even the "broken, unsupported, onlypatched" PA then i'm pretty sure you wrong again. All i did i give out a link to let ppl know the project is not dead and stuff, and if you want to try it then you can. I'm pretty sure you are a more experienced WA user then i'm, but thats true too that i have more experience and knowledge in PA then you do. And the difference between us i tried the latest WA, while you havn't tried the latest PA.

Well your question havn't contained any boss die function. And i can't really see how could an addon predict this accurately.
I'll quote my post so you can read it more carefully:
I would like auras that remind me to recast debuffs on a mob not to display if the time-to-live for that mob is less than the length that the dot lasts.
I think that's pretty bloody explicit about wanting the length of time a mob is likely to be alive to factor into the aura's display conditions. TimeToDie does a pretty good job, but it's not hard to do similar estimation that is "accurate enough" with weak auras if you'd rather not hook into the addon.
- Well you can create an aura when the target/boss below x% which is almost as accurate then the TimeToDie function. (Still have doubts in such a function.)
Well i could create a custom aura type too, where the user can pick up event, eventtypes, sourceGUID, destGUID and pretty much everything, then the user can do whatever he/she wants.

If you have a point in R2 and Reflect X, then take the resulting point and Reflect Y you've just done Rotate 180 but less efficiently. I even posted the matrices so that you could follow the math because it seems like English isn't your first language and I wanted to be very clear. Do you not understand how numbers work?
- Might be right, but if you think rotating is more efficiently then mirroring thats not true. While mirroring calling 1 function with 4 variables, rotating is calling 3 function with 8 variables, and you also need to convert degrees into radians, and if you use the slider then you can pretty much multiple this with 360, so total of 8640 operations. So mirroring just 2000+ times more efficiently.

But not enough for good cast bars, chat filtering, durability/latency/framerate info, damage meters, buff/debuff trackers, etc.

It's okay to be wrong about something. You underestimated the capabilities of another addon, you overstated the capabilities of one that you've taken over, and then you got called on it. That doesn't have to be bad! You were ignorant, you're better informed now. It's okay to admit your mistakes.
- Well i only meant for a basic ui, it was never intended to support such a functions, and will never be.

Rather than clinging to the idea that PAC does a whole bunch of things that WA can't, why not focus on it's strengths? People seem to be less frightened by it's configuration dialog and that counts for something. It's okay to prefer a less capable addon but it's silly to argue that everyone must share your opinions (or worse, to deny that it's less capable in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary).
- Everyone thinks PA is a lightweigthed addon with like 5-10 functions, which is not true, just 80% of the users has no idea what is it capable of.
The list i made which WA can't do, was just from the top of my head in that moment, there are more functions ofc.
If i will be bored i might extend the list.

If i sounded ignorant thats not intended, as you pointed out english isn't is my first language, and thats the way i can express myself.

[a21fa7c67f26f6d49a20c2c51]

- Yes it's much easier the get a 500 lenght string then click another button from the dropdown menu.

You've changed your argument again. From "WA doesn't let you do X" to "the interface for doing X is unpleasant". Also, if you import that string the options are in the drop down menu for as long as you keep the aura.

Well you pointed that out WA can do EVERYTHING that PA can

Here's what I said:

• 
  If you want weak auras to be a PAC clone then it can be. It can also be buff frames, cast bars, boss mods, damage meters, unit frames, etc. the limits tend to be the end users knowledge and how far they want to push it.
  
  Given that there are a few dozen places where you can plug Lua into weak auras it seems like just about anything you could do with an addon could be done with weak auras. I mean you could use the events to create frames, assign event handlers, etc. You shouldn't, because that's crazy - but you could.
  

Of all the things you've claimed: so far the only ones that aren't obviously false are:

• Notes about gradient overlays for textures (which we know you could do by just calling CreateTexture(), SetPoints(), etc…inside of a trigger. The question yet to be answered is if it can be done via animation settings - something that I'll have to check later.
• Your claim about z-orientation was wrong I just didn't bother to mention it because it was obviously false. You can control frame strata from a drop down menu in the display tab. what you call "sub strata" would be handled by adjusting the auras in the list on the left hand side of the screen within a group.
• Performance claims of various types. You haven't demonstrated them either so I feel justified in ignoring them until evidence is presented -- I'm tempted to dismiss you outright based on other things you've said that demonstrate a clear misunderstanding of how software works. However, even if WA was less performant than PAC, that doesn't change the fact that WA is still a more powerful addon than PAC and that is what our point of contention is.

Even if those things turn out to have some merrit - I would argue that they don't come even remotely close to outweighing the additional functionality enabled by Weak Auras. For evidence of that claim I'll point you to the rest of this thread where you've itemized all the areas PAC can't match the functionality of WA and remind you that the examples come from other people who have used it do to those things.

And the difference between us i tried the latest WA, while you havn't tried the latest PA.

Even if I had been using PAC, I wouldn't know enough about it to confidently say "PAC can't do X". That's why I write my posts as questions: "Can I do X with PAC" and then leave it to you to say "No it can't." I try not to make statements that I can't support - maybe you could look into adopting a similar policy. I've made no claims about a lack of support or development of PAC - I'd appreciate if you would restrict your criticism of arguments to ones that I actually made.

Well you can create an aura when the target/boss below x% which is almost as accurate then the TimeToDie function. I could create a custom aura type

Sadly it isn't. 5% on Lei Shin lasts takes significantly longer than 5% of Elegon. Are you proposing I make 2000 auras: 1 for every boss, add, trash-mob, etc? ±2 seconds would probably be fine. ±20 seconds is not good enough. You don't get any points for things you could do but haven't.

Might be right, but if you think rotating is more efficiently then mirroring thats not true. While mirroring calling 1 function with 4 variables, rotating is calling 3 function with 8 variables, and you also need to convert degrees into radians and if you use the slider then you can pretty much multiple this with 360, so total of 8640 operations. So mirroring just 2000+ times more efficiently.

What you have said is frighteningly wrong in every conceivable way. It's so wrong that I can't even being to write a good response because you have demonstrated such a fundamental misunderstanding of software engineering, mathematics, data structures, and algorithms that it would take volumes just to lay the foundation for an explanation of exactly how flawed this statement is. If I didn't know better I'd think you were trolling.

[Machinelf]

I had invested many many hours making Power Auras for every class and had to throw it all away. The months-long downtime of Power Auras when MoP hit was the deal breaker for me. I had begun making a lot of custom sounds and images, then WHAM stuck high and dry. I had used Weakauras before, for a few auras that Power Auras just couldn't handle, so I steeled myself to take the plunge and dove right in. I was immediately impressed with Weakaura's elegant simplicity and realized I had stumbled upon one of those rarest of discoveries, a piece of software that will explosively empower the user.

In retrospect I'm glad I was forced to make the jump to Weakauras, people seem to get trapped in their bad old habits so easily. I don't remember the last time I got so passionate about anything, I'm already a known Weakauras pusher/evangelist on my server and am always trying to get others to drink the Koolaid. Now after exhausting everything Power Auras did, and replacing a myriad of random addons (many of which stopped being supported by its authors), and realizing the sky is the limit for what I can do with this veritable Gutenberg Press of innovation, I have decided to take this opportunity to learn Lua and maybe take a new career in programming.

How many addons could make the claim for encouraging people on a new career path?

[Resike]

Notes about gradient overlays for textures (which we know you could do by just calling CreateTexture(), SetPoints(), etc…inside of a trigger. The question yet to be answered is if it can be done via animation settings - something that I'll have to check later.
- Why on earth would you create a new texure, gradient coloring just colors the current texture.
Your claim about z-orientation was wrong I just didn't bother to mention it because it was obviously false. You can control frame strata from a drop down menu in the display tab. what you call "sub strata" would be handled by adjusting the auras in the list on the left hand side of the screen within a group.
- No it's not wrong, frame strata, and texture strata is 2 different things. If you can control texture strata too, you can pretty much insert a texture between an action button's icons and it's border/background/highlight.
Performance claims of various types. You haven't demonstrated them either so I feel justified in ignoring them until evidence is presented -- I'm tempted to dismiss you outright based on other things you've said that demonstrate a clear misunderstanding of how software works. However, even if WA was less performant than PAC, that doesn't change the fact that WA is still a more powerful addon than PAC and that is what our point of contention is.
- So i'm the bad guy who doesnt add useless cpu and memory killer functions and i have a misunderstanding of how software works. OK.

Even if those things turn out to have some merrit - I would argue that they don't come even remotely close to outweighing the additional functionality enabled by Weak Auras. For evidence of that claim I'll point you to the rest of this thread where you've itemized all the areas PAC can't match the functionality of WA and remind you that the examples come from other people who have used it do to those things.
- Well because i'm the one who admits if PA is incapable for something, and you're the one who just glamorize WA to heaven.

Even if I had been using PAC, I wouldn't know enough about it to confidently say "PAC can't do X". That's why I write my posts as questions: "Can I do X with PAC" and then leave it to you to say "No it can't." I try not to make statements that I can't support - maybe you could look into adopting a similar policy. I've made no claims about a lack of support or development of PAC - I'd appreciate if you would restrict your criticism of arguments to ones that I actually made.

Well you can create an aura when the target/boss below x% which is almost as accurate then the TimeToDie function. I could create a custom aura type
Sadly it isn't. 5% on Lei Shin lasts takes significantly longer than 5% of Elegon. Are you proposing I make 2000 auras: 1 for every boss, add, trash-mob, etc? ±2 seconds would probably be fine. ±20 seconds is not good enough. You don't get any points for things you could do but haven't.

What you have said is frighteningly wrong in every conceivable way. It's so wrong that I can't even being to write a good response because you have demonstrated such a fundamental misunderstanding of software engineering, mathematics, data structures, and algorithms that it would take volumes just to lay the foundation for an explanation of exactly how flawed this statement is. If I didn't know better I'd think you were trolling.
- So "texture:SetTexCoord(1, 0, 0, 1)" with "texture:SetRotation(math.rad(lolslidervalue))" is more efficiently then "texture:SetTexCoord(0, 1, 1, 0)". Are you fucken kidding me.

[Ceece]

Ive been a long time power auras user. It was simple to work with, fast and I liked it. I remember one time I made a aura mid fight and it worked like a charm. Now I see WA(weak auras) and I think *shrug* just another aura maker thing. Ill stick with PA. Ive heard people sing wa praises so I tried it and it felt very clunky to use, many different little menus and things to enter in to get a timer for something to work and I was very turned off by it, it was the one that came out when 5.1 came. I want to give it another try encase power auras is broken. My question is what can I even do with wa aside from auras for my buffs/debuffs, is the new version easy to use? Just general info from people that have used it.

I'm sure a lot of people, including myself, were in the same boat as you. When you get use to it, will it be easier than ever. It's not clutter by any means, or at least that's my opinion on it. It can do everything you need it to do, it's also lightweight or so they say, and has a large toolkit. It's actually better than PA.

[Resike]

I'm sure a lot of people, including myself, were in the same boat as you. When you get use to it, will it be easier than ever. It's not clutter by any means, or at least that's my opinion on it. It can do everything you need it to do, it's also lightweight or so they say, and has a large toolkit. It's actually better than PA.

Well about WA being lightweight and well structured and well coded addon, create a texture, add an animation for it. Then delete it. Then you can watch WA starts to eat as much memory as it can. When it reaches the limit it dumps it, and starts it over. This happens even with clean install and 0 auras. I'm pretty sure when you delete an aura you should nil it's animations or at least kill it's onupate function, and stop creating frames. But hey i have fundamental misunderstanding of software engineering, mathematics, data structures, and algorithms.