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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Aveyai View Post
    7. Lock - several defensive cds as well as health returning offenseive abilities
    You're an expansion or two behind the times now, friend. There aren't any of those anymore, not that heal for more than a trickle. Even the Soul Leech talent got turned into a temporary absorb shield this patch. Let me give you a leg up and lay out the Warlock healing options.

    1. Dark Regen + Glyphed Healthstone macro: a very large 10s HoT on a 2m cooldown.
    2. Ember Tap (Destro only!): a spec-specific instant medium heal at the cost of their main damage resource.
    3. Drain Life: heals for about 8000 per second, less debuffs. Inconsequential.
    4. Glyph of Siphon Life: heals for less than Drain Life. Meaningless.

    So if you're facing a Demo or Afflic, all you have to worry about is the purple swirly heal every 2m. Destro can hold out longer, but every Ember Tap is a Chaos Bolt they can't cast.

    Here's the thing with Warlocks. They are very hard to kill when they're chaining their defensive cooldowns. When those cooldowns are gone, they're about as durable as tissue paper. The trick to killing a Warlock in PvP is to just keep the pressure up. If you chain your CC till those cooldowns are gone and don't die or let them shake you off, they will squash quickly.

  2. #62
    Writing on the phone atm, hunters are squichy though they can use deterrence 100% of the time, I find deterrence even more annoying than paladin bubble. Bubble even feels easy to counter, maybe cuz I tend to just chase hunters while I pretty often kite palas.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    its a list of fastest to kill, im surprised paladin is 7th
    You went full retard, Never go full retard.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Laptop View Post
    Elemental is nowhere near immortal at all. Have you played Elemental recently or anytime in Cata?
    I think MoP is completely different for Elemental compared to Cata, especially with the 5.2 buffs. They might not be the best but they're ridiculously frustrating to fight. Thunderstorm barley has a CD so melee cleaves bust their balls reaching them. Burst potential is as high as for everyone else. TONS of totem utility. Now they're defenses are getting buffed. They're underestimated.
    Last edited by Senathor; 2013-03-07 at 01:55 PM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirroth View Post
    You're an expansion or two behind the times now, friend. There aren't any of those anymore, not that heal for more than a trickle. Even the Soul Leech talent got turned into a temporary absorb shield this patch. Let me give you a leg up and lay out the Warlock healing options.

    1. Dark Regen + Glyphed Healthstone macro: a very large 10s HoT on a 2m cooldown.
    2. Ember Tap (Destro only!): a spec-specific instant medium heal at the cost of their main damage resource.
    3. Drain Life: heals for about 8000 per second, less debuffs. Inconsequential.
    4. Glyph of Siphon Life: heals for less than Drain Life. Meaningless.

    So if you're facing a Demo or Afflic, all you have to worry about is the purple swirly heal every 2m. Destro can hold out longer, but every Ember Tap is a Chaos Bolt they can't cast.

    Here's the thing with Warlocks. They are very hard to kill when they're chaining their defensive cooldowns. When those cooldowns are gone, they're about as durable as tissue paper. The trick to killing a Warlock in PvP is to just keep the pressure up. If you chain your CC till those cooldowns are gone and don't die or let them shake you off, they will squash quickly.
    Funny, because the bolded part is about the healing that second wind gives and that DKs currently get from conversion.

  6. #66
    if you read my past post you will probably laugh

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirroth View Post
    When those cooldowns are gone, they're about as durable as tissue paper.
    Not really. Warlocks have a bunch of CC for when their defensive cooldowns are down.

    Plus, they can just run away while their defensive cooldowns are up and you're running away in fear.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    I think MoP is completely different for Elemental compared to Cata, especially with the 5.2 buffs. They might not be the best but they're ridiculously frustrating to fight. Thunderstorm barley has a CD so melee cleaves bust their balls reaching them. Burst potential is as high as for everyone else. TONS of totem utility. Now they're defenses are getting buffed. They're underestimated.
    Melee do not have a hard time at all. The only melee class that would have a hard time closing the gap would be Ret Paladins and that's if you can Purge Freedom off of them. Burst is indeed high, but they are in no way underestimated at all.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    Funny, because the bolded part is about the healing that second wind gives and that DKs currently get from conversion.
    Drain life is 2% per tick and has to be channeled, second wind and conversion heal for 3% and are toggled/passive.
    And the guy you quoted gave a number pre-battlefatigue, drain life actually heals about 4000-6000, depending on health and if mortal strike has been applied or not.

    Not to mention that used drain life over malefic grasp is roughly a 60% loss in single target dps. How much damage do death knights and warriors lose when they heal?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    Funny, because the bolded part is about the healing that second wind gives and that DKs currently get from conversion.
    yea and second wind can't be stopped. dunno about conversion. but stun/silence/interupt the warlock and he is dead.

    and he said health returning offenseive abilities. but i would not call drainlife a offensive ability. all the healing a warlock can do outside his cd will lower his dps by alot.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 10:25 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Not really. Warlocks have a bunch of CC for when their defensive cooldowns are down.

    Plus, they can just run away while their defensive cooldowns are up and you're running away in fear.
    yea because you got no friends to dispell you. poor you...

  11. #71
    Is this a joke? Ret should be like #2.

    Ever here the phrase "train the Ret"? It exists for a reason.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Drain life is 2% per tick and has to be channeled, second wind and conversion heal for 3% and are toggled/passive.
    And the guy you quoted gave a number pre-battlefatigue, drain life actually heals about 4000-6000, depending on health and if mortal strike has been applied or not.

    Not to mention that used drain life over malefic grasp is roughly a 60% loss in single target dps. How much damage do death knights and warriors lose when they heal?
    That is pretty disingenuous, as if battle fatigue and mortal strike effects don't effect everything else as well. The only thing that matters is the health of the character and the percentage healing the spell does. Warlocks will have more health than DK/War and if a DK is sitting in conversion or a warrior is in second wind territory there are two things going on. Either they are being trained into the ground which means sword/board for war and blood pres for DK (both of which lower damage a lot) and they are probably being stunned into oblivion OR they are kiting away to pillar hump and get away from burst which means zero damage.

    A warlock channeling drain life is doing damage and not in real trouble. You can do that anytime you please and you have tons of tools to escape and channel. You can channel on a pet behind a pillar if you want. You can also use a defensive to be immune to interrupts/silence in order to channel if you want. Fact of the matter is that you have options while the other two do not.

    And what I was getting at is that everyone has been crying about second wind for months now and the new crying flavor of the month is about DKs and conversion. All while a warlock sits there with the exact same skill and no one says anything...

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by LukashP View Post
    Are you high ?? Locks the tankiest ? Than Dk ?
    "Tankiness" isn't simply how much passive reduction you have (which locks also have a shit ton of as well) it's also cds. Locks though, excel at ALL defensives. They have an extra pvp trinket as well as immunity, health regen, absorbs galore as well as a shield wall. And this doesn't include the ridiculous amount of hard cc they have that can be used defensively and makes frost mages look balanced.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfster View Post
    Edit: warlocks are just impossible, i once unloaded my full burst with powershot (i saw logs it did hit) and didnt remove his bubble thingy, i was frustrated, needless to say took a chaos bolt to the face and released corpse :P
    love it ! do not train us in arena.. nothing to see here.

    to be fair tho.. if you get through our CDs you can drop us. if some moron lock pops bubble and shield wall and regen all at once like i've been seen in bgs lately; just cc and leave him alone and swap back to him when it's over. dead lock.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 05:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    Funny, because the bolded part is about the healing that second wind gives and that DKs currently get from conversion.
    is it still funny when you consider that the lock's is a channeled cast? and also has to dmg to get a return, IE; none if there's any type of absorb? how about when you consider that 70% of our dmg comes from channeling MG so we're effectively doing nothing to you and getting paid with 8k ticks while you out dmg that w/ fkn F.Fever? gtfo.
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-03-08 at 05:56 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  15. #75
    Assuming that all locks are affliction? Pretty bad assumption really. The real point was that a lock can use drain whenever he wants and the DK/War versions are when they are getting trained. I would love to be able to dot the world and then when my healer is in a CC but I am at 80% health drain up without blowing a major CD. I also think that whining because it is channeled is also a little silly since that is like saying you are 1v3 the whole team and you can never ever get a cast off under any circumstances.

    Give me a break.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    Assuming that all locks are affliction? Pretty bad assumption really. The real point was that a lock can use drain whenever he wants and the DK/War versions are when they are getting trained. I would love to be able to dot the world and then when my healer is in a CC but I am at 80% health drain up without blowing a major CD. I also think that whining because it is channeled is also a little silly since that is like saying you are 1v3 the whole team and you can never ever get a cast off under any circumstances.

    Give me a break.

    no ones whining about it. i'm saying the 2 are completely different talents, and drain life isnt the great life gaining spell you make out to be. its a waste of time in 3s 75% of the time you're better off using MG and letting a hot top you off because any hot would do it more efficiently. i dunno what game you're playing.. but giving up most of your dmg for an 8k heal is stupidity. this isnt cata, you have to glyph it for it to do the 30% bonus healing and it's still not worth doing even if you have UA/corr/agony up. its a waste of time most of the time.

    ps - doting with the 3 main dots and then NOT channeling MG into the target{s} or being active in other ways is really not effective at all.. so no .. you would not 'love' doing that in arena. It's not a life saver like the way you put it. 'my healer is in CC let me channel 8k tick and get locked out of shadow real quick :/.

    if you're gonna risk a lock out a bad time you may as well quick juke your fear and peel yourself, or do 100 other things incl. pitching in for counter pressure before you think about DL.

    painfully obv. you dont play the class so why you would want to argue over this spell with 2 locks is strange.

    no one is saying locks are squishy.. but we're not tanks because drain life..wtf?
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-03-08 at 10:10 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  17. #77
    I am not saying you are a tank because of drain life, I am saying that you have lots of tools available to you of which drain life is one. The comparison to DK and Warrior is mainly because everyone has been complaining about warriors and it has shifted to DKs, and then I see some warlock players complain they don't have any tools at all. It just makes me cringe when there are threads like this when people don't know the difference between a resilient class and a straight up trainable class. Yes, warlocks go down hard when out of CDs, but they have an abundance of them and being a caster one of their biggest ways to control damage is LoS and range. Melee don't have that luxury because in both of those cases we are doing nothing, so it would stand that they should be a little more resilient than a caster.

    Now, I really don't think any of this would even be a discussion if the amount of burst damage was not so out of control. It is almost like Blizzard decided they did not want arena games to go longer than 10 minutes to please the ADD crowd that is the majority of their player base. I don't want there to be 45 minute TBC games either, but there should be a medium between gibbing a player in a stun and taking 40 minutes to drain a healer of mana.

    I just should have never stepped foot in this thread because there is nothing to gain by discussing this topic. Too many differences, too many variables, too many situations to even make a comparison and have it be meaningful.

  18. #78
    5.2 spriest against a B.Elf DK frost.

    THAT'S SQUISHINESS!

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