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  1. #1

    Capacitive Diamond for Unholy DK's

    Someone with sims/numbers please allay my fears

    Quote from Ghostcrawler:

    Legendary Metagems

    Capacitive Primal Diamond – 21.00 base RealPPM on landing melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
    - At 5 stacks, fires a Lightning Strike, which deals [280 + 75% AP] Nature damage. This is considered a ranged attack for Hunters, and a melee attack for everyone else.
    - Base proc rate is multiplied by an additional coefficient:
    Assassination: 1.089
    Combat: 1.232
    Subtlety: 0.388
    Feral: 2.397
    Windwalker: 0.495
    Beast Mastery: 0.960
    Marksmanship: 0.984
    Survival: 0.714
    Enhancement: 0.266
    Retribution: 1.199
    Frost DK (2H): 2.098
    Frost DK (DW): 1.479
    Unholy: 0.639

    Arms: 1.783
    Fury (TG): 0.944
    Fury (SMF): 0.596
    Anyone Else: 1.000

    This cannot be right. In my experiances on the ptr, with new raid gear, Frost and Unholy are about even. 2h frost is going to get 3 times as many procs of this new meta gem. Unholy has more AP but it will still do far less damage compared to 2h or even dw Frost. This is recent simcraft data (which may or may not be accurate)

    213271 - 2H Windwalker Monk
    211982 - 1H Windwalker Monk
    205729 - Arcane Mage
    203155 - Combat Rogue
    199643 - Feral Druid
    195076 - Affliction Warlock
    191973 - Fire Mage
    187785 - Enhancement Shaman
    186418 - Subtelty Rogue
    183980 - Frost Mage
    182509 - Assassination Rogue
    180666 - 1H Fury Warrior
    178436 - BM Hunter
    178428 - Demonology Warlock
    177868 - 2H Fury Warrior
    175744 - Marksmanship Hunter
    174984 - 2H Frost DK
    174872 - Destruction Warlock
    174320 - Shadow Priest
    173469 - Unholy DK
    172656 - Retribution Paladin
    171236 - Survival Hunter
    170362 - Balance Druid
    169677 - 1H Frost DK
    168561 - Arms Warrior
    166526 - Elemental Shaman

    It shows 2h frost doing the most.

    Am I wrong in saying this makes Frost the clear winner this teir? What the hell is going on?

  2. #2
    There are reports that the latest coefficients on the meta are totally out of whack because of an internal bug, and they should be revised soon. This really makes sense because the discrepancy between UH and 2H is one of the more mild ones if you look at the rest of that list.

    FWIW, the sim numbers for DK's are rather accurate. The UH one is low because the profile they used is bad, but only by 2k or so, I can't speak for how much the Frost profile can be improved yet.

  3. #3
    Unholy also gets more attacks in both with unholy presence increasing melee speed, and GCD lowering. That could be it?

    That said, the difference on simcraft right now is pretty minimal, I wouldn't be upset over 1.5k dps difference. Every attempt there's gonna be a swing both ways for both specs if you look at the range of attempts in simcraft, it's as good as it'd get if they were that close.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Unholy also gets more attacks in both with unholy presence increasing melee speed, and GCD lowering. That could be it?
    Neither of these affects the number of procs you get per minute with the new rppm system.

  5. #5
    Unholy Presence has no effect on the GCD, and melee attack speed has no effect on RPPM. Now, if Unholy Presence actually provides Haste, that would lead to more procs, but it would lead to 20% more procs, not 300% more, so I have no idea what's going on there.

    The sims are close right now, but if this change goes, and the Meta gem is providing triple the benefit to frost, it's going to be quite a bit ahead.

  6. #6
    Stop posting simcraft results across multiple classes.

    The devs' story is that Unholy has a lower coefficient because it has much more attack power than Frost. That doesn't explain why its coefficient is a third of Frost's, though.

    My guess is they're no longer attempting to make the value equal across the various specs, and instead are using it to adjust overall balance. Like many dev decisions, I think that's completely wrong-headed, but I'm not posting in blue so that doesn't matter much. And hey, my guess could be wrong.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2013-03-05 at 01:07 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by broodax View Post
    Unholy Presence has no effect on the GCD, and melee attack speed has no effect on RPPM. Now, if Unholy Presence actually provides Haste, that would lead to more procs, but it would lead to 20% more procs, not 300% more, so I have no idea what's going on there.

    The sims are close right now, but if this change goes, and the Meta gem is providing triple the benefit to frost, it's going to be quite a bit ahead.
    Does it proc off special attacks though? That's what I meant by GCD lowering with unholy presence.

  8. #8
    Yes it does, but again all DK specs have a 1.0s GCD, and it's on RPPM so dualwielding shouldn't make much of a difference either, unless it's coded as two separate procs, but there's no indication that is the case.

  9. #9
    new numbers:
    1.532 Frost DK 2H
    1.134 Frost DK DW
    0.838 Unholy
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=114#2278
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Does it proc off special attacks though? That's what I meant by GCD lowering with unholy presence.
    all dks have 1 second gcds.
    regardless of spec, presence, haste, the weather, the orbit of saturn.

  10. #10
    I would be willing to bet that these coefficients were obtained from internal sims to determine a "base" % of damage and then they computed coefficients from there. ( At least thats what I would do )

    No great way to see how it performs other than further testing so complaints about the coefficients aren't really worthwhile.

  11. #11
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Necroing this thread to ask a question.

    I've heard conflicting reports of whether or not the gem is useable in pre-5.2 helms. I'm on track to get the legendary gem next reset but, unfortunately I'm still using the heroic Nullification Greathelm (502). Would I be able to shove the gem in that?

    Cheers
    Amazing signature courtesy of Shyama

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    Necroing this thread to ask a question.

    I've heard conflicting reports of whether or not the gem is useable in pre-5.2 helms. I'm on track to get the legendary gem next reset but, unfortunately I'm still using the heroic Nullification Greathelm (502). Would I be able to shove the gem in that?

    Cheers
    yes, the only requirement is that its at least a 502 ilevel helm.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by damescool View Post
    yes, the only requirement is that its at least a 502 ilevel helm.
    Actually this is wrong, it needs to be a Throne of Thunder helmet (lfr 502 or higher) one of our main tanks has his old T14 helm double upgraded and cant use the Legendary meta.
    There was also a blue post a couple of days back that mentioned that its only Throne of Thunder helms.

  14. #14
    High Overlord Boramir's Avatar
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    Doesn't Timmy/Gary get his stats updated dynamically when the DK's stats are increased? If so, I can see why the proc might be a bit lower for UH as they get a decent chunk of damage from Timmy/Gary. I could be wrong (haven't ever played UH seriously), but that would make sense to me.

  15. #15
    I might be wrong, but I thought it worked in t14 helms that are un-upgraded ilvl 502+ but not in upgraded helms that started at less than 502.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeket View Post
    Actually this is wrong, it needs to be a Throne of Thunder helmet (lfr 502 or higher) one of our main tanks has his old T14 helm double upgraded and cant use the Legendary meta.
    There was also a blue post a couple of days back that mentioned that its only Throne of Thunder helms.
    Sorry but you're wrong. I have helmet from HC Feng and i can use that meta. You can check my armory.

    eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/burning-legion/Fenorth/simple

  17. #17
    As far as I understand, the normal helms when double upgraded do not count. As the guy above me says, it's fine if the helm is over 502 before being upgraded.

  18. #18
    Did they fix it then? because I know he couldn't socket it at the start of last reset (2 weeks) which was when he got it

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeket View Post
    Did they fix it then? because I know he couldn't socket it at the start of last reset (2 weeks) which was when he got it
    I'm going to take a guess and say his helm is normal mode. It would have to be a heroic t14 helm to work. The upgrade system doesn't make the game recognise it as a 502 for real.

  20. #20
    Ah that would make sence

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