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  1. #21
    Inc + HotW for me, if SotF will be any better then Inc I'll go SotF + HotW and Inc + NV/HotW for burst encounter...

    I don't like the new NV, it feels way to clunky...and we still have a strong burst even without NV. Plus a 3.5m + Tranq really makes me giggle :P

  2. #22
    What changed with SoTF that suddenly made it viable? From what I recall it does nothing going from lunar to solar and only removes cast needed going for solar to lunar?
    Did that change?

  3. #23
    He means that with the 4 set bonus it may be more viable to look to stay in eclipse longer, therefore SotF will make that easier.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Cornish View Post
    What changed with SoTF that suddenly made it viable? From what I recall it does nothing going from lunar to solar and only removes cast needed going for solar to lunar?
    Did that change?
    Soul of the Forest
    Balance: Now generates 40 Lunar or Solar energy upon leaving Eclipse.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Well this thread just made me extremely happy, was getting so bored of relying on burst for DPS, felt really punishing in 5-mans especially Challenge Modes.

    So with HoTW / SotF, will we be going for the first Haste break point then stacking Mastery? How will this effect gemming, will we go for full Mastery gems (in place of Crit) or Brilliant in red / Artful in yellow to benefit from the HoTW Int bonus.
    I dont think there has been anyone doing the math or testing of that yet. Still nothing but speculations.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikeyeia View Post
    Gonna roll with Incarnation/HotW, probably. I just can't see how 33% uptime on 10% bonus damage is going to compete with 100% uptime on 6% bonus intellect. .
    This seems to be a somewhat valid argument, not perfectly mathed though.

    also

    I ll go with HotW instead of NV because I think that timing the unIncarnated NV properly will be difficult.
    Even 1 second difference will be a loss of dps, and healing. This will be even more messed up when you have to use NV 6-7 times exactly 90 seconds apart.

    HotW activated healing is great because apart from tranquility there is also a rejuvenation blanket on raid possible.

    I will stay with Incarnation for some burst, but if I feel lazy I ll try SotW, just to see how it feels after the change.

  7. #27
    Im not quite sure what will be the best. If I go HoTW do I go cat when activated?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippster View Post
    Im not quite sure what will be the best. If I go HoTW do I go cat when activated?
    Probably not, unless its a constant movment phase right next to the boss i suppose - dont really know how much dmg you'd do still.

  9. #29
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippster View Post
    Im not quite sure what will be the best. If I go HoTW do I go cat when activated?
    If you do mooncatting, you'll want a reasonable agi 2H, I don't think the int to agi alone will result in a dps increase. (Possibly in lower levels of gear, but certainly with higher crit levels movement will become less punishing so just dotting and SS weaving will be better)

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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Joeri2 View Post
    I think most of you are missing the real point here at the moment. Most talents, except for DoC, are viable and situationally useful. So its not just about what talent is just BiS and lets go with that, its more about understanding the strenghts and weaknesses of all talents. And then based on that information you decide per boss what talents you are going to run with.
    yeah it would be nice if it worked like this. unfortunately, in the imperfect world we live in whats going to happen is we'll have 1 build 90% of the time and the other 10% will be split across talents useful only once in a while (ie, trees on jin'rokh, NV on tortos, etc)

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    yeah it would be nice if it worked like this. unfortunately, in the imperfect world we live in whats going to happen is we'll have 1 build 90% of the time and the other 10% will be split across talents useful only once in a while (ie, trees on jin'rokh, NV on tortos, etc)
    If we are using Trees on Jin'rokh would we want to place them in the puddle or outside of it? Just looking for some advice! Also is that a good fight to use NV? Sorry I've not done the ptr this go around.

  12. #32
    Spine-esque fights where burst is necessary will be using NV/Inc regardless if it is higher overall DPS or not. I do strongly feel like HoTW + SoTF will be the highest sustained DPS though. This does make mastery more valuable, but I don't know that it will be enough to overtake haste even post-breakpoints.

  13. #33
    Even 1 second difference will be a loss of dps, and healing. This will be even more messed up when you have to use NV 6-7 times exactly 90 seconds apart.
    This seems to make some assumptions about fight length. As long as the non-stacked NV is used within a few seconds of its cd (which shouldn't matter too much because its length means you'll always get at least one full eclipse while it's up), the stacked burst window isn't any different from our previous tier (situations where it's beneficial to briefly hold the cds on certain bosses etc.). Unless a fight is exactly 3x+30 (3 min cd on the burst stack, 30 second burst rotation) you won't see a dps loss by waiting a few seconds on NV.

    I'm not saying that I like the NV change (I agree that it's a rather serious nerf) or that I think NV is the best option now in every fight, but the timing margin for error is nowhere near this drastic and in fact hasn't really changed much at all. I would think you would use the off-NV close to immediately when it's available and then plan for the burst stack in the same way it's planned in tier 14. Personally, if I choose NV for burst window fights I will intend to use it as soon as/while NG is up, i.e. as soon as I hit an eclipse or immediately if I've just entered an eclipse. You'll still run into disappointing situations where even if you've used the cds exactly every 3 minutes, the fight ends just as cds become available again, but again, that's no different from t14.

    At the very least there will still be situations where burst stacking is still valuable (as it was on, say, wind lord with the debuff window on the boss, or sha during each heroism burn in both phases). In those situations NV may still be best even though patchwerk simulations have a different result.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippster View Post
    If we are using Trees on Jin'rokh would we want to place them in the puddle or outside of it? Just looking for some advice! Also is that a good fight to use NV? Sorry I've not done the ptr this go around.
    inside the puddle. i wouldn't use NV because, while it has a damage amp, its for the entire fight. NV shines in situations where you get a big damage modifier to burst a target down in a small window. on JR you have the damage boost for pretty much the whole time so you'd get more sustained benefit from hotw

  15. #35
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    From the sims I ran it looks like either HotW & SotF ... or Inc & NV are very similar for Patchwerk style fights. I would venture to say that Inc & NV is the way to go for min/max if you line up procs properly, but it requires you to play more perfectly. HotW & SotF is very viable. Based on my own personal sims (probably doesn't go the same for everyone), crit is still best with either talent choices followed by mastery.

  16. #36

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secrecy View Post
    Soul of the Forest
    Balance: Now generates 40 Lunar or Solar energy upon leaving Eclipse.
    Cornish is right though. It does nothing going lunar from solar -- generating double energy does not decrease the amount of casts needed, and only reduces one cast solar to lunar. It's not really much of a buff.

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  18. #38
    Doing very well with Incarn/NV still.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    Doing very well with Incarn/NV still.
    Yeah, saw that too. Poping NV again right as I hit an eclipse.... HotW wasn't too bad either, maybe with more gear it will get better (my ilvl is 500ish).
    SoTF is crap, maybe if there's some reforging/regemming that will make it better, but dps was a lot lower with SoTF.

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