Zomgdps' Review of 5.2 [Mages]

[Soulstrike]

i didnt like how they were talking about scorch weaving arcane was the problem, sure it is a problem but why would they nerf us so hard when we lost our only mobile dps source,it just doesnt add up.

they wanted us to manage our mana but there is nothing to manage now, the mana cost is way to high and needed to be tuned down like 5.1(perfect example) i just dont get why they want to refresh a dull and boring rotation they gave us, managing max/min AB&AM was the way to go >_>

[Akraen]

You're really growing on me zomgdps. I wish your review would be pasted in place of theirs :P

[pyrostorm9001]

@ everyone mad at blizzards "review" of the mage class (including myself) Perhaps its time we got a little louder as a community on the forums. We seem to be awful quiet these days. I know ill try to be more active going forward and I hope others do too. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, or so they say.

[Deleted]

My raid logs from last night:

Jin'rokh - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3g...?s=1311&e=1551

Got some bad RNG - got the Focused Lightning 3 times so moving out of the pools hurt my 2nd Combustion a bit.

Horridon - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3g...?s=3784&e=4506

Decent fight, padded meters a little bit but not as much as I could have, if I'm honest. Being troll helped a fair bit.

Council - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3g...?s=5910&e=6392

Meh fight, a bit too much target swapping to build reliable Ignites, and not really enough cleave (because of said target swapping) to make Fire work properly here.

Got sat for Tortos and WoL is playing up but we did manage to kill it. It's f**king horrible for Fire, though, unless you sit on boss the entire time and even then it's still pretty sh*t.

Armory link so you can check my shocking gear - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ycobi/advanced

Not exactly optimised for Fire but seemed to do OK; RNG wasn't really that bad a factor apart from once or twice.


Gotta say, though, Frost currently seems the strongest spec. Horridon aside (where you can get Combust spreads off boss and near-constant cleaving) I feel Frost is just a bit more reliable and is currently putting out strong output. Sure, it's a little bit slow to ramp up, but it's honestly not that bad.

[aycheff]

Spreading combustion off horridon in 10m in its current state isn't really viable and only can really be applied to 25m

[Deleted]

You could always consider to go frost/haste arcane.
Im also 490 but I did had quite some more dps as arcane on the first boss killl. (84-93k DPS 10 Man)

I quess it falls behind on higher Items levels but I was actually suprised by the dps I still had as arcane tonight.

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8a3kzmiahujim41b/

uy

Guys really pls just wake up. 84-93k ? Todays average dps is around 130-140k i don tknow how skilled are players in your guild or geared but 93k dps is really low.

[jtmzac]

You do have a point but it depends on ilvl. I did 130k on jin'rokh as ilvl 500 frost.

[Deleted]

uy

Guys really pls just wake up. 84-93k ? Todays average dps is around 130-140k i don tknow how skilled are players in your guild or geared but 93k dps is really low.

Yeah because everyone in less than 500ilvl gear is gonna pull 130k dps. Or maybe you don't have the right to post logs if you're not top 250 world lololol ?

[Deleted]

I'm at 496 and I still launch more than 110k on this fight, on average.
Most of DPS come from Orb proc. it's important to launch it every water pool (delaying it a little). It scale perfectly with IV too. I think I would have done more with volatile.

---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 02:01 PM ----------

Good news :

Zarhym ‏@CM_Zarhym @Vaengence @restokin We talked with @Ghostcrawler about Fire & Arcane for a bit today. His team's watching things closely.
Retweeté par Lissanna

[Deleted]

uy

Guys really pls just wake up. 84-93k ? Todays average dps is around 130-140k i don tknow how skilled are players in your guild or geared but 93k dps is really low.

The only thing I was pointing out is that when you're having a dps drop from 90k to 64k dps as arcane (probably mastery) is that you could try to spec frost and duel spec haste arcane as long as you have the right gear for it. The stat priority is almost the same and it could work out better then the 64k dps from the other mage. As for yesterday I just wanted to try arcane haste since It was quite nice before 5.2 and you were able to pull some decent dps with it if played correctly.

What you should consider before checking my logs tho is that I'm only Ilvl 490 (488 without my 522 necklace) and that I'm far from a hardcore raider. An average Ilvl of 488 means that I'm just slighty better geared then the LFR gear that's available.

[TyrantWave]

Sure.. on a purely 'theoretical' level, RoP will always win, but realistically, if you drop just 3 seconds of uptime (that is just ~5%), RoP looses to IW. (I'll be happy to provide the math proof for this if required).

Realistically, it is MUCH easier to line up 15 seconds of uninterrupted damage (which is what IW demands) than it is to line up 60 seconds of uninterrupted damage.


A similar concept is what makes invocation loose out as well. The 60 second 'extension' of duration isn't actually a 'buff' as some think. Did you know that according to the math, if out of the 60 seconds you have the Invocation buff, lets say you spend 3 seconds of that not dpsing, IW passive would have been better. 3 seconds out of 60. So again, just 5%.

Heck, if you spend more than 5 seconds (out of 60) not dpsing with the Invocation buff, then it wasn't worth casting the spell in the first place.

Yea.. the level 90s really lost hard with 5.2

Late response, but as far as I can tell, your math is wrong here.

57/60 seconds, plus the 2.6 extra - we need to add that in.

Invo: (57/(60+2.6)) * 1.15 = 1.047x dps

IW: ((57+2.6)/(60+2.6)) * 1.06 = 1.009x dps

IW has the extra 2.6 after that 1 minute cycle. That's less than invo.


Let's use 40/62.6 seconds - pretty bad to be in that situation:

Invo: (40/(60+2.6))*1.15 = .735x dps
IW: (42.6/62.6)*1.06 = .721x dps

Still behind, but barely so.

The 2.6 is important (Invo cast time), because in a 100% uptime DPS + rechannel, in 62.6s you'll be DPSing with the buff for 60 of them, then 0 while you channel (Ignoring dots etc).

100% uptime:
Invo: (60/62.6)*1.15 = 1.102x
IW: (62.6/62.6)*1.06 = 1.06x
(And also for Rune: (61.5/62.6)*1.15 = 1.1298x)

What if we use IW's buff once in that minute, and we can dps full time?

IW: ((15/62.6)*1.3) + ((10/62.6)*1) + ((35/62.6)*1.06) = 1.064x.

(15s of buff, then 10s with no buff, then the remaining 35s at 6% boost). That was barely worth using overall...


I might be doing something stupid here and calculating these wrong, but that's how I see the numbers...

Finally, IW on cooldown always getting buff:
((30/62.6)*1.3) + ((20/62.6)*1) + ((10/62.6)*1.06) = 1.112x. Better than Invo, worse than rune.

Any thoughts on these numbers?

[mrgreenthump]

Good news

Its only good if they actually do something abt them, what we really need for fire is a reliable aoe, that actually does some damage(frost too), atm its better to single target and cleave, than use your aoe.. We need better protection for bad rng(I.E on ji'kun I had abysmal 31% crit rate on my fireballs, needless to say that I got nowhere on the meters). Removal of LB cleave hurts fire, but really if they mend other problems, we can live without it. Like I really dont know after few hours of raiding on how we are actually going to land now, but it really seems like outside of first boss, I might find myself sitting cause other classes perform tasks so much better on multitarget fights atm(ramp ups etc), not to mention bad rng is going to crush your singletarget damage..

[Deleted]

it's better than ordinary where we don't even know if they read us or not ...

but the true "good new" will be if they change something (it can be a "bad news", too)

[drsarcasm]

My take? It is extremely void of any real insight. It feels they are just listing the changes they made with not much in terms of having any real window into what they were thinking.


Imho, it is a dud review. Mine is better.


You hear that Blizz? I'm better than you!!

Actually, yours was better, all kidding aside.

What is mind boggling is that they STILL think there's room to nerf us (i.e. Frost) in PVP... So, according to Blizz logic, it's okay for Rogues (a melee class) to be running around being the best ranged DPS class thanks to their assinine buffs, but Frost is still overpowered according to their infinite wisdom...

Honestly, sometimes I think I still play this game (8+ years now) just because I want to see how dumb game designer logic can get.

[Deleted]

I really would test Mastery/RoP but if the damage is really low I would be kinda f*cked.

I was Haste/RoP in 5.1 so for now I still can test Haste/RoP and switch Frost if needed. That way I can gather some fire gear, but frost is really boring.

Spam frosbolt, wait for FO cooldown to have procs (because oustide frost orb its extremly rare). I spam so much i'm almost oom before having to Evo back up again.. Sometimes, I really am oom and need to evo before the buffs fades.

[jtmzac]

I spam so much i'm almost oom before having to Evo back up again.. Sometimes, I really am oom and need to evo before the buffs fades.

Thats odd. The only time I've ever managed to go oom was doing lfr protectors and using spellsteal.

Even on a patchwerk fight you should easily have enough regen to prevent from going oom.

[Deleted]

Thats odd. The only time I've ever managed to go oom was doing lfr protectors and using spellsteal.

Even on a patchwerk fight you should easily have enough regen to prevent from going oom.

Well I did, a couple times on the Empress, maybe it was a streak of bad RNG (no procs) so spamming FB made me oom, and I have quite a bit of haste for my ilvl (10k haste 490 ilvl).

Don't know what it's about

[jtmzac]

I'm guessing you didn't evocate twice in a row to get back to 100% mana?

If you go oom and evocate you'll just go oom again assuming you get the same rng since evocate doesn't restore all your mana.

[Deleted]

Well, no I didnt use Evo twice, when I evo'd i was around 80/85% mana I think. This was after BL on pull (so certainly more manavore)

If you have to evo twice it would be dumb, thanks invocation nerf o//. Maybe you have to evo twice after a BL on pull and bad luck, i'll be able to test this tonight !

[jtmzac]

Since evocation works different for arcane now it could just be changed to restore 100% mana which would at least solve part of the problem.