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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    well im not sure if i need another 1,4k hit since im capped already on both exp and hit and still have 75% mastery
    Even with the hit rating only going towards white swings it is as good as Bad Juju. If you can make use of ANY of the hit rating it will be better.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 12:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    The problem is not the 522 trinkets beeing underpowered, its Bottle beeing retardedly overpowered. When I upgraded for normal Terror to heroic bottle with 2 valor upgrades I gained more DPS tham when I got my heroic dagger from Stone guards... thats way too freaking much for a trinket.
    Even so, the twenty ilvl difference should have at least closed the gap. Currently, it looks like the only normal mode trinket to surpass Bottle is the Shado Pan trinket. Kind of sad really.

  2. #22
    I'm just going to post my current list for normal mode trinkets here for assassination with my current gear (9% haste). If you'd like to compare it to yours (in relative standing because of different EP values I guess), I'd appreciate it. Some others may have some use for it as well. Don't quote me on this list though, math is not exact and doesn't take everything into account yet.
    Also, I didn't use white hit for the VP trinket but rather our best non-cappable stat (which is not mastery since mastery is forged on every item anyway) which we would gain through having more hit - in this case crit.

    Name EP
    Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault 6108.19
    Bottle of Infinite Stars (510) 6070.66
    Talisman of Bloodlust 5799.94 [NOT EXACT]
    Terror in the Mists (517) 5493.32
    Rune of Re-Origination 5453.97
    Bad Juju 5405.43
    Renataki's Soul Charm 5354.35
    Last edited by Ashvael; 2013-03-05 at 01:20 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashvael View Post
    I'm just going to post my current list for normal mode trinkets here. If you'd like to compare it to yours (in relative standing because of different EP values I guess), I'd appreciate it. Some others may have some use for it as well. Don't quote me on this list though, math is not exact and doesn't take everything into account yet.
    Also, I didn't use white hit for the VP trinket but rather our best non-cappable stat (which is not mastery since mastery is forged on every item anyway) which we would gain through having more hit - in this case crit.

    Name EP
    Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault 6108.19
    Bottle of Infinite Stars (510) 6070.66
    Talisman of Bloodlust 5799.94 [NOT EXACT]
    Terror in the Mists (517) 5493.32
    Rune of Re-Origination 5453.97
    Bad Juju 5405.43
    Renataki's Soul Charm 5354.35
    Well the hunter in my group will be happy he can have all the trinkets that drop ffrom normal lol, unless the EPs are similar for him as well in wich case were gona be disenchanting alot...

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashvael View Post
    -snip-
    Out of curiosity, what amount of haste have you used to get the EP's for Bad Juju and Renataki's Soul Charm?

  5. #25
    I am using different (old) stat weights, but here is my list:

    Bottle of Infinite Stars (510) - 6057 EP
    Vicious Talisman of the Shado Pan Assault (converting hit to crit) - 6026 EP
    Talisman of Bloodlust - 5709 (very rough estimation) EP
    Bottle of Infinite Stars (502) - 5623 EP
    Bad Juju - 5520 EP
    Vicious Talisman of the Shado Pan Assault (white hit only) - 5498 EP
    Renataki's Soul Charm (converting expertise to crit) - 4905 EP

    Rune of Re-Origination - Not worth calculating. This trinket's value is very very dependent on your gear. It will be worth less if your gear is well itemized, or more if its badly itemized. It also gets boosted quite a bit if paired with Talisman of Bloodlust since you cannot be brought below 0 haste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Javanface View Post
    Out of curiosity, what amount of haste have you used to get the EP's for Bad Juju and Renataki's Soul Charm?
    I am using 15% average haste, which is quite close to what you would expect for Assassination.
    Last edited by Maelstrom51; 2013-03-05 at 01:31 PM.

  6. #26
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Doesn't this put heroic Juju at ~ 6200 EP? Which means it's only slightly better than heroic bottle. That's a depressing thought.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  7. #27
    Depressing to say the least. Even though I only managed to snag the normal bottle and upgrade it, it seems like Soul Charm and Bad Juju are rough side-grades.

    I'm sure the new trinkets will get a small buff to their RPPM values, or we'll just see a nerf to bottle as that's the easiest fix and in line with the changes we're seeing at the moment. (i.e. fix the symptom, not the underlying issue).

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Doesn't this put heroic Juju at ~ 6200 EP? Which means it's only slightly better than heroic bottle. That's a depressing thought.
    Things will get better as we gear up. As we get more haste the proc rate will increase, and the value as well. In addition, grabbing a Talisman of Bloodlust will add a sizable chunk of value to your other PPM trinkets, and will also put increasing returns on haste, so it will most likely be our #2 stat.

    The main problem will be the gap between now and heroic Talisman.

  9. #29
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Things will get better as we gear up. As we get more haste the proc rate will increase, and the value as well. In addition, grabbing a Talisman of Bloodlust will add a sizable chunk of value to your other PPM trinkets, and will also put increasing returns on haste, so it will most likely be our #2 stat.

    The main problem will be the gap between now and heroic Talisman.
    I've been real slack with the implementation of the rppm mechanic, is bottle not on it as well?
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    I've been real slack with the implementation of the rppm mechanic, is bottle not on it as well?
    Its not. Its just a simple 20 second duration, 45 second ICD trinket.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    I am using different (old) stat weights, but here is my list:

    Vicious Talisman of the Shado Pan Assault (converting hit to crit) - 6026 EP
    Vicious Talisman of the Shado Pan Assault (white hit only) - 5498 EP

    Pardom my ignorance but what does converting hit to crit means froma gameplay/itemization standpoint ?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    Pardom my ignorance but what does converting hit to crit means froma gameplay/itemization standpoint ?
    It just means that you are not overcapping hit, and instead gaining crit on your gear in other places through reforging.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    It just means that you are not overcapping hit, and instead gaining crit on your gear in other places through reforging.
    Tought he was refering to somethign on the mathemathical modelling of the trinket EP value, didnt ocur to em he was actualy talking about reforge hehe, ty for the answer.

    Shouldnt we be converting hit to mastery them or is crit suposed to be a better secondary stat tham mastery on 5.2 now ? Im trying to catch up of theorycrafting here before the patch goes live hehe, havent been following it too closely during the PTR.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    Tought he was refering to somethign on the mathemathical modelling of the trinket EP value, didnt ocur to em he was actualy talking about reforge hehe, ty for the answer.

    Shouldnt we be converting hit to mastery them or is crit suposed to be a better secondary stat tham mastery on 5.2 now ? Im trying to catch up of theorycrafting here before the patch goes live hehe, havent been following it too closely during the PTR.
    Mastery will probably still be better, but for assassination we're likely to be using alot of gear with mastery on it already, meaning you can't actually reforge that hit into mastery.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    Tought he was refering to somethign on the mathemathical modelling of the trinket EP value, didnt ocur to em he was actualy talking about reforge hehe, ty for the answer.

    Shouldnt we be converting hit to mastery them or is crit suposed to be a better secondary stat tham mastery on 5.2 now ? Im trying to catch up of theorycrafting here before the patch goes live hehe, havent been following it too closely during the PTR.
    In general, your other gear will either have mastery on it already or will already be reforged to mastery. Therefore, in order to take off the hit on the trinket, you have to make some non-ideal reforges on other pieces.
    Last edited by Maelstrom51; 2013-03-05 at 04:10 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    I.e., you would reforge hit to mastery on the trinket of course, but on another piece of gear that has say, hit/haste, you may have to reforge that hit into crit rating instead of the haste into mastery.
    Why wouldnt you reforge hit into mastery on this situation ? I see you reforging hit to cirt if the piece had hit/mastery but if its hit/haste why not go for hit -> mastery instead of crit ?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    Why wouldnt you reforge hit into mastery on this situation ? I see you reforging hit to cirt if the piece had hit/mastery but if its hit/haste why not go for hit -> mastery instead of crit ?
    Oops. I am sleepy. I've been awake for 25 hours working on a project for school and it looks like it starting to affect me.

    Anyhow, what I meant to say, is if you have a hit/mastery piece you would reforge the hit rating off for crit. Or if you had a hit/crit piece you would reforge the hit away instead of crit.

    Basically you gain a lot of your second best stat. Sorry for the outright wrong information there.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Oops. I am sleepy. I've been awake for 25 hours working on a project for school and it looks like it starting to affect me.

    Anyhow, what I meant to say, is if you have a hit/mastery piece you would reforge the hit rating off for crit. Or if you had a hit/crit piece you would reforge the hit away instead of crit.

    Basically you gain a lot of your second best stat. Sorry for the outright wrong information there.
    Its cool, ty for the info. 25 hours of sleep deprivation isnt tough

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Oops. I am sleepy. I've been awake for 25 hours working on a project for school and it looks like it starting to affect me.

    Anyhow, what I meant to say, is if you have a hit/mastery piece you would reforge the hit rating off for crit. Or if you had a hit/crit piece you would reforge the hit away instead of crit.

    Basically you gain a lot of your second best stat. Sorry for the outright wrong information there.
    The situations for reforging are heavily dependent on your gear and I couple MAYBE see reforging off hit instead of crit on a piece of hit/crit gear if you have so much hit, you can't get rid of it all. However, in most scenarios, it makes more sense to keep the hit on that item in order to not have to sacrifice a higher EP stat such as Mastery/Haste. Remember, the goal of reforging should be to minimize your less useful stats while maximizing your more beneficial stats.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilate View Post
    The situations for reforging are heavily dependent on your gear and I couple MAYBE see reforging off hit instead of crit on a piece of hit/crit gear if you have so much hit, you can't get rid of it all. However, in most scenarios, it makes more sense to keep the hit on that item in order to not have to sacrifice a higher EP stat such as Mastery/Haste. Remember, the goal of reforging should be to minimize your less useful stats while maximizing your more beneficial stats.
    Right. And when you're 1k hit rating over the cap due to this trinket (Shado pan assault one), you'll be wanting to reforge away from hit since its only worth ~2/3rds of the next highest stat.

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