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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    It is omitted, for a couple reasons:

    - Modelling it as above is irritating since it sends EP values all over the place
    - Modelling it in a vacuum state makes very little sense due to it's interaction with other trinkets/procs
    - I hate it
    At first, I was like "cool, that's a unique and interesting trinket proc coming from them".

    As soon as I started to think about the ramifications and the way it models? I immediately changed my opinion to "oh god why", and "i want normal trinkets back".

  2. #142
    Stood in the Fire Nihilim's Avatar
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    This thread has helped me immensely so massive thanks to everyone.

    However, I do have one question. I've had extremely bad luck with trinkets so I currently have upgraded Relic and upgraded normal Bottle. What I gather is that valor talisman would be an upgrade over the Relic but that would put me wildly over hit cap, by around 2%. Is it still worth getting now or should I wait to get rid of gear with hit on it?
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  3. #143
    This trinkets things really confuses me.
    We managed to kill Lei Shen last night and i got the Normal 522 Rune of reorgination.
    However i Got Double-upgraded heroic bottle (510) and Shadopan valortrinket (522).
    The other rogue in guild says that the Rune of reorgination sucks and i should'nt replace any of my trinkets for that one.
    Is he right? Should i Disenchant the Rune of reorgination trinket?
    Thanks if someone gives a good answer

  4. #144
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilim View Post
    This thread has helped me immensely so massive thanks to everyone.

    However, I do have one question. I've had extremely bad luck with trinkets so I currently have upgraded Relic and upgraded normal Bottle. What I gather is that valor talisman would be an upgrade over the Relic but that would put me wildly over hit cap, by around 2%. Is it still worth getting now or should I wait to get rid of gear with hit on it?
    Modelled in vacuum in the same conditions as the previous page, if you're still getting spell hit benefit I have the trinket marginally above a double upgraded bottle and significantly above a double upgraded RoX.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrih View Post
    This trinkets things really confuses me.
    We managed to kill Lei Shen last night and i got the Normal 522 Rune of reorgination.
    However i Got Double-upgraded heroic bottle (510) and Shadopan valortrinket (522).
    The other rogue in guild says that the Rune of reorgination sucks and i should'nt replace any of my trinkets for that one.
    Is he right? Should i Disenchant the Rune of reorgination trinket?
    Thanks if someone gives a good answer
    Others have modelled it, and the results they get is that it's a lacklustre trinket. Simulationcraft, last I tried anyway, had it around the same level as T14 heroic trinkets (without upgrade).

    I would hold on to it to purely for the amusement it might bring you, having ludicrous mastery or haste could provide some rather interesting moments, but I'd drop it for progression.
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  5. #145
    The rune is a weird trinket. My guildie is getting ~20% uptime (give or take since RPPM is weird) with 16% haste with it. He's getting a 20k stat proc. 20k stats on a 20% uptime is +4k best secondary stat -2k lower secondary stats. That's a ~2k stat gain and it messes with your rotation. I wouldn't use it if you aren't a WW monk.

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  6. #146
    When you say RSC is being extremely undervalued, would that push it above the other two trinkets? And why does your list value it so much higher than shadowcraft does?

  7. #147
    Hi guys, got myself in some trouble here..
    I have atm upgraded HC bottle and Shado-Pan valor trinket, tonight i recived hc renatakis soul charm.
    Wich 2 should i use?

    cant link yet but my chars name is Predatore and is on kazzak eu.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrejt View Post
    Hi guys, got myself in some trouble here..
    I have atm upgraded HC bottle and Shado-Pan valor trinket, tonight i recived hc renatakis soul charm.
    Wich 2 should i use?

    cant link yet but my chars name is Predatore and is on kazzak eu.
    Imo use renataki's and the shado pan trinket.

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  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Drexra View Post
    When you say RSC is being extremely undervalued, would that push it above the other two trinkets? And why does your list value it so much higher than shadowcraft does?
    Shadowcraft is evaluating RSC based on dropping it into your gear, if you are close to exp cap then it will be ranked toward the bottom because the secondary stat budget is being mostly wasted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrejt View Post
    Hi guys, got myself in some trouble here..
    I have atm upgraded HC bottle and Shado-Pan valor trinket, tonight i recived hc renatakis soul charm.
    Wich 2 should i use?

    cant link yet but my chars name is Predatore and is on kazzak eu.
    It depends on your expertise, if you can use most of the expertise on RSC then it beats out bottle but if you will end up wasting most the expertise on the trinket use heroic bottle.

  10. #150
    I'm assuming ShadowCraft's modeling of the new trinkets is completely inaccurate. I just got a H Bad Juju and not only is it saying it's worse than the VP and H 2/2 Bottle, but it's having me reforge into haste already.

    Am I going to have to learn SimC to optimize my gear? -.-

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    I'm assuming ShadowCraft's modeling of the new trinkets is completely inaccurate. I just got a H Bad Juju and not only is it saying it's worse than the VP and H 2/2 Bottle, but it's having me reforge into haste already.

    Am I going to have to learn SimC to optimize my gear? -.-
    That isn't completely incorrect. ShadowCraft isn't accounting for RPPM protection increasing the proc rate so it is undervaluing the trinket slightly however the trick with RPPM trinkets is they scale with haste. The various lists of trinket values assume 10-20% haste, when you actually have 5.58% haste, accounting for lust 6-6.5%. Heroic bad juju is probably an upgrade since the RPPM bad luck protection increases uptime by a decent margin which simcraft isn't accounting for at the moment.

    As for haste vs. mastery, it is possible for mastery to pass haste with only a single RPPM item. It typically occurs when using a T15 weapon and/or a heroic level RPPM trinket but can occur in other gear sets. The buff to dispatch increases the value of haste relative to mastery because dispatch frequency depends entirely on haste. Most likely though once you swap a few items to haste instead of mastery mastery will once again pass haste in value. Shadowcraft's optimization tools don't really handle stat weights shifting places in valuation order outside of hit and expertise very well so you won't be able to simply use the Shadowcraft auto optimize tools and have things work.

    It may also be related to the front end breaking again. When the front end breaks the ep values that are reported (if they are reported at all) sometime end up coming from the combat model.
    Last edited by fierydemise; 2013-03-21 at 08:27 AM.

  12. #152
    Hi there,

    just a question for you, I hope you can help me. I am playing on EU-Alleria and have the following trinkets:

    - Bottle hc 2/2
    - Renatakis Normal
    - Juju Normal
    - Darkmoon 2/2

    optional: VP Trinket

    link to my profile (for haste value): eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/alleria/Mäusle/simple


    Shadowcraft says I should wear Bottle & Renatakis, but I think it is not modelling right.

    Thanks.

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    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-21 at 08:33 PM.

  13. #153
    Does Talisman of Bloodlust stack quicker/more often in a raid setting? I got the normal one and sat on a dummy for ~10 minutes and never saw it go beyond a 3 stack, and that was only once. Most of the time I had trouble getting a second stack before the first one fell off.
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  14. #154
    @deppp21
    Given that you're not leaps and bounds over the expertise cap, I'm tempted to think it's probably accurate. The only conceivable other option I see is the VP trinket, which ShC does model as ahead of Renataki's. As the post above you points out, ShC slightly undervalues RPPM trinkets (Renataki's, Juju), although I'm not sure approximately +1 proc per fight will pull Renataki ahead of the VP trinket.

    Note: the VP trinket with Bottle 2/2 HC is showing as your top option right now.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-21 at 10:04 PM.

  15. #155
    So, just to clarify, ShadowCraft still works with the new trinkets, but it's just slightly undervalued. In addition to that, ShadowC's auto-reforge and auto-gem tools don't play nicely with fluctuating stat priority (and haste>mastery is normal with just one H RPPM trinket).

    So I can still use it, but I have to manually mess with reforges/gems to get an accurate read.

  16. #156
    So for me right now, normal content, the best options are Talisman of Bloodlust + Bottle 2/2 hc? What about the Rune of Re-Origination?

    Thank you.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by deppp21 View Post
    So for me right now, normal content, the best options are Talisman of Bloodlust + Bottle 2/2 hc? What about the Rune of Re-Origination?

    Thank you.
    RoRO is discussed in detail a few posts above yours - long posts at the end of page 7. I highly recommend reading over them.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-23 at 05:20 PM.

  18. #158
    i recived recently rentataki soul harm heroick thunderforget and wearing it with talisman bloodlost and what i can say is that when talisman stacked up to 5 and renataki started statcking with other one is just imba ;p 8k haste + 16k agility proc together;p anyway tlisman for me got 57 % up time while rentatki got 30 % depends on luck anyway sometimes is that rentatki stacking again right after buff fade.. sometimes is 3 times in a row, kinda imba 60 sec with stacking buff up to 16k your primary stat, and the trinket renetaki for me looks like bis for assa the more haste will i have the more proc will have;p sory for crapy english;p

  19. #159
    Hi there
    I got a little confused about the trinket business, and since i didnt want to make a whole new topic i thought i'd ask here.
    I'm not really into all that math stuff yet but i have a simple question actually.
    I now have LFR TitM, and relic of xuen, both 0/0 and i'm unsure about wich to replace with the vicious shado-pan one.
    My first guess is TitM since it only gives crit, and relic gives agi, but i'm not a 100% on that...
    I'm combat by the way (yes i know but i don't have the means yet to switch)

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by V3lv3T View Post
    Hi there
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20550991 is a nice approximation of trinkets. Please note as well that you can use shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com to hot-swap trinkets and compare DPS values for your particular character. If that's not quite enough; TitM is terrible, and the relic is great: keep the relic =)

    Edit: missed the line about being combat (woops?!) but I'm 99% sure that still holds - and Shadowcraft will still help.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-24 at 06:21 AM.

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