[Heroic Garalon] How to maximize dps?

[Deleted]

My guild got their first kill a couple of weeks ago but since we have him on farm we are always getting the kill during the enrage( or even after the enrage happens and our warlock survives a few extra seconds / shaman ankhs). Im wondering if there's anything we can do to maximize dps and not be that close to the enrage every reset.
We are currently killing all legs as soon as they spawn, melee goes on the inner legs while ranged dps go on the outer legs. Going with 2 tanks and 3 healers.

[Deleted]

Stop having ranged touch legs. Make sure that no one but melee/cleave touch the legs (and definitely not players who are out of the circles) anyone dpsing a leg without the buff is an overall dps loss for the raid. You can also have one of your tanks use a significant amount of dps gear/trinkets (or possibly even spec him into dps if your healers can handle it, with 3 this should be easy) or simply use 2 healers instead of 3.

[Stuffs]

First thing that comes to mind is to remember you only need to have enough DPS to kill the legs on the timer+1, essentially.
That is, abuse as much cleave as you can get, and if you can afford it, leave a class that just has single target rather than cleave on the boss.

The ranged that can afford it are also hiding under the legs, correct? Our hunter and warlock always waddle under there with me since they can cast while moving.

[Hypasonic]

Basically what cookie said, but I'd stick with 3 healers just to be safe, the other change's (only melee/tanks on legs and tanks with DPS gear) should be enough alone, especially if you've already killed him.

[Saegno]

Killing the legs as soon as they spawn isn't vital.
You should have everyone burst the legs down at start, then as long as your melee can kill every new leg within 25 seconds(they spawn every 30 and the 5 seconds is to account for crush stun+moving to new leg) you should have all ranged on the boss full time. If melee are not killing every new leg with that time window you can have your hunter/lock on the legs as well.

[bigbad]

We killed it twice now first time with 703k raiddps 2nd time 722k raiddps. It's hard to tell without logs we had 2 melee warrior/rogue fulltime on legs at 160k dps 3ranged at 86-105k dps both tanks ~40k dps disc priest 30k dps. At the start we have the rogue on 1 leg, me as warrior on 1 leg, ele shammy on 1 leg and other 2 ranged on the other leg. After that just me and the rogue on the legs while we leave the leg we can't properly reach to the tanks. Sounds like you're killing legs too fast and possibly missing some cleave damage from the melee maybe...not sure what "outer" legs are but is ranged getting the damage buff?

[crysilaero]

Did it on 25 and gained around 5~7% raid dps but can be done on 10 man too:

Leave the two legs that are closer to the wall untouched, i.e. if you are rotating boss clockwise, do not dps boss left legs, if it is counter-clockwise, do not dps boss right legs.

You can kill all four legs on pull but after that stick with that strat.

So if you are rotating boss counter-clockwise:

-if there is no legs on boss left side, all raid focus boss
-when a leg spawns, only cleavers focus it (if you have a low cleave raid, mages and locks can help)
-If a second left side leg spawns and the first leg is under 20%, let it untouched and the cleavers zerg it
-If a second left side leg spawns and the first leg is above 20%, anyone can zerg it

-if the cleave constantly cannot zerg a leg before the other one spawns, put locks/mages with them to force the dps. the perfect timer is to kill a leg right before another spawns,

the drawback is that the boss will move faster. you will need to be more precise on kiting

if you have a warlock, he can get the 8 sec immunity talent, can be very useful if he uses it on enrage crush, the raid dots + single dps can get 1~3 million damage while it is up

get a healer or two on pull to kite disease, try to maximize pull procs.

dunno when you are doing bloodlust but if you have a low execute damage raid, you can do it on pull instead of p3

when boss enters 30%, zerg all legs

[Deleted]

That's what we do too, the two left legs (we rotate the boss clock-wise) are there for the rogue(s) during all the fight and melees + greedy rangeds kill the right legs when they pop back.

[Simplexity]

It helps to think about it from a math perspective. DPS is going to have to be more thought-out in who is attacking legs and who is attacking the body. In normal this isn't necessary since the enrage is a joke but this needs to be looked at for heroic. First, here are some numbers.

Garalon - 290M
Garalon's leg (3% of boss HP) - 8.7M
Enrage: 7 minutes/420 seconds
Garalon casts Mend Leg roughly every 31-32 seconds, meaning that the number of legs you can attack and kill are 12 mended legs (last killable one spawning at ~6:30) + 4 original legs.
16 legs * 8.7M is about 140M total damage to legs, leaving 150M damage that must be done to the boss.


Since there are a static amount of legs, that means that it is not about "how fast we can kill each leg," even though it's intuitive and normal mode kind of trained us to think that our DPS is better by killing legs faster. It does not matter how fast you kill legs as long as we do not waste a Mend Leg (and ideally we don't want to have too many legs up). Basically that's just a long winded way of saying you want as few people on legs as necessary and you are being detrimental if you are attacking legs when outside of the circle. Back to numbers.

Since each leg has 8.7M and a leg spawns every 31 seconds, allowing for 6 seconds of any ramp-up time and reaching the circle/leg (you should NEVER DPS a leg out of the circle), this leaves 25 seconds to kill the leg. 8.7M/25 seconds = 348K DPS. Since you get double damage in the circle, this is 174K real leg DPS. This should be doable by 2 people (87K each) even though it will be tight. Remember that I accounted for ramp-up time and time to reach the leg. Tanks can handle the inner leg or we can just always leave that up if that doesn't mess up kiting.

You want people on the legs that can reach the leg quickly and have little ramp-up time. The obvious choice is melee since we probably don't want melee kiting Pheremones.

This leaves boss DPS. If we kill 16 legs, we have 150M damage that must be done to the body. To beat the enrage you need about 360K body DPS. If you 3 heal it, you have 3 dedicated body DPS, and 2 tanks and any healer DPS (which I"ll assume that that counts for one pure DPS). That is ~360K/4 body DPSers = 90K per body DPSer, which each of your DPS should be able to do at this point, but you have to factor in damage lost from kiting. You do have a little leeway though from leg DPSers cleave damage and any extra damage they can contribute.

[Deleted]

we started 2 healing this recently and its actually quite manageable and easy... just start swaping the debuff more at around 10 stacks instead of say 15-16.. and have everyone in ur raid kite for a bit.. make the 2 tanks at the start kite longer to liek 20+ stacks and use ur healer cds etc there.. then when they are back off CD, make that person kite longer... eg when my tranq is off CD again ill tell the kiter to keep goin until i say to swap (normally as i start tranqing)

[fangless]

While it doesn't matter how fast you kill the leg, killing them fast means you're attacking the boss again sooner. So, there's no benefit to having less people kill a leg, really. Those people aren't hitting the boss (besides accidental cleave) for that duration, the longer it takes, the less boss damage those leg players get in.

That is all assuming the people hitting legs aren't stupid and move more than necessary, THAT would be a dps loss, and is mainly why melee are the primary leg killers.

[Deleted]

Instead of making a new thread, I'm gonna steal this one to post a similar problem.

We're also progressing on Garalon HC, we've downed all of MV and both Blade Lord and Wind Lord in HoF (In heroic mode ofc) but we've been hitting an enrage brick wall on Garalon. Tonight we had a bunch of wipes at 5% and one at 0% (he had 2 millions). I feel like we're already chugging out every single bit of DPS possible but comments here got me thinking.

First, our setup:

Tanks: Paladin + Druid

Healers: Priest (Holy) + Monk + Shaman

DPS: Fury Warr, Ele Shaman, Combat Rogue, Shadow Priest, BM(? I think, cant be sure atm) Hunter

But we've always had most people hit the legs up, though the front ones are only for the melee/tanks.

Would keep ranged solely on the boss and leave the legs for the melee help chug out more DPS on the boss, overall?


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EDIT:

In case it matters, our kiting rotation is as follows-> Hunter > Paladin (tank) > Priest (healer) > Druid (tank) > Shaman (healer) > Priest (dps) > Monk (healer) > Shaman (dps) -> repeat

In the second phase we usually skip DPS in the rotation, let stacks go a bit higher, so only healers or tanks need to take the pheromones in order to maximize DPS.

[Deleted]

Instead of making a new thread, I'm gonna steal this one to post a similar problem.

We're also progressing on Garalon HC, we've downed all of MV and both Blade Lord and Wind Lord in HoF (In heroic mode ofc) but we've been hitting an enrage brick wall on Garalon. Tonight we had a bunch of wipes at 5% and one at 0% (he had 2 millions). I feel like we're already chugging out every single bit of DPS possible but comments here got me thinking.

First, our setup:

Tanks: Paladin + Druid

Healers: Priest (Holy) + Monk + Shaman

DPS: Fury Warr, Ele Shaman, Combat Rogue, Shadow Priest, BM(? I think, cant be sure atm) Hunter

But we've always had most people hit the legs up, though the front ones are only for the melee/tanks.

Would keep ranged solely on the boss and leave the legs for the melee help chug out more DPS on the boss, overall?


-----

EDIT:

In case it matters, our kiting rotation is as follows-> Hunter > Paladin (tank) > Priest (healer) > Druid (tank) > Shaman (healer) > Priest (dps) > Monk (healer) > Shaman (dps) -> repeat

In the second phase we usually skip DPS in the rotation, let stacks go a bit higher, so only healers or tanks need to take the pheromones in order to maximize DPS.

Yea with that insane good setup u will want to kill all 4 legs asap everyone maybe apart from the hunter on the legs. After that u will only want to use Rogue and warrior with there cleaves on the legs. then only if u come behind on legs or they are close u would take others in it. But fury warriors and rogues are insane on legs with cleaves. If u only need a little dps on legs (u really shouldn't with those melee) then tell the sp to dot up he wont lose as much dps on that as a hunter or a ele.
For our own guild the only problem was ppl not maxxing dps when running with phermonies. well yea tanks can help on front legs but with this u will be able to kill it.

[Deleted]

Let the fury warri do the 2nd tank job. You really only need 1 tank in 10m.
Rest has already been said. No1 should go on the legs, when not in the circle. No multidotting/shenenigans. Use Hand of protection for stomps.

[DakonBlackblade]

Let a rogue be your second tank and youll have all the extra DPS you need. Contrary to what ppl are saying multidoting leg or cleaving with combustion and crap even when outside the circle is a DPS gain, its extra damage being done for almost no tax regardless of blue circle buf or not, if legs end up dying faster them melee can hit the body more and that result in more overall raid DPS, only thing you should not do is have ranged focus legs the target switching is alot more taxing for ranged overall due to ramp up times, ramp up times is the reason you dont want too many ppl on leg as well melee or otherwise cause each one person switching target looses some DPS if too many switch the DPS loss from going body >leg > body is greater tham that gained by the 50% damage bonus, have 2 melee on leg dutty basicaly and multi dot and cleave to legs freely.

[Tehterokkar]

Our first kills were due to our Paladin Tank and 3 Shamans, Our Pala managed to survive the Berserk Crush and then our Shamans used Ankh to heal the tank and DPS boss last ~5 million.

This is 25m, I doubt you have 3 Shamans in 10m, but you get the point.

[Deleted]

Let a rogue be your second tank and youll have all the extra DPS you need. Contrary to what ppl are saying multidoting leg or cleaving with combustion and crap even when outside the circle is a DPS gain, its extra damage being done for almost no tax regardless of blue circle buf or not, if legs end up dying faster them melee can hit the body more and that result in more overall raid DPS, only thing you should not do is have ranged focus legs the target switching is alot more taxing for ranged overall due to ramp up times, ramp up times is the reason you dont want too many ppl on leg as well melee or otherwise cause each one person switching target looses some DPS if too many switch the DPS loss from going body >leg > body is greater tham that gained by the 50% damage bonus, have 2 melee on leg dutty basicaly and multi dot and cleave to legs freely.

You don't really get how the legs work. You might have some grounds if said melee have no cleave at all (but even then the reasoning is a bit silly) but most melee specs are comparatively good at cleaving.

[Libertarian]

You don't really get how the legs work. You might have some grounds if said melee have no cleave at all (but even then the reasoning is a bit silly) but most melee specs are comparatively good at cleaving.

I don't think you do.

Our group runs with 2 melee and 3-4 ranged and we NEVER cared about who was in the circles. If you could make it inside, great, if not who cares. Just kill the legs, slow the boss, and win.

[DakonBlackblade]

You don't really get how the legs work. You might have some grounds if said melee have no cleave at all (but even then the reasoning is a bit silly) but most melee specs are comparatively good at cleaving.

Believe me I do, every extra damage done to them for minimal tax is a overall DPS increase regardless of melee cleaving or not, only instance were itd be optmal to only have cleaver melees on legs was when the damage was also doubled on Garalons body (in other words the 2 first weeks fo Garalon). As I said ranged shouldnt focus legs but every extra damage to the legs for minimal tax is an overall DPS gain, let me exemplify.

For this example will say legs have 3 mil health for the sake of making math easier.

Lets say you have a rogue who deals 100k dps and is cleaving to body hitting the leg, with the buf this rogue is dealling 150k to leg and 80k to body (poisosn dont cleave and all that) so in 20 secs this rogue killed leg and dealt another 1.6 mil damage to the body, resulting in a total of 4.6 mil damage done to Garalon (leg dying + cleave damage)
Lets say we have an warlock dealling 100k damage and this lock is not multi dotting, in this 20 secs frame this lock dealt 2 mil damage to Garalon
In this first scenario damage done to Garalon in 20 seconds was 6.6 mil, 3 million from rogue killing leg + 1.6 million cleave to body from rogue + 2 million lock

Now for scenario number 2, rogue is still doing his thing with the same DPS but lock is now multidotting, lets say lock is dealling 30k dps to leg now as the result of his multi dot (not sure how much a lock would actualy do of dps from dots alone but you get the point).

DPS on leg is now 150k from rogue + 30k from lock = 180k leg dies in 16.7 secs aprox
DPS on body is 100k from lock + 80k from rogue cleaves for 16.7 seconds = 3 damage mil
For the other 3.3 secs rogue would do full damage so DPS on boss would be 100k form rogue + 100k form lock = 660k damage
So total damage done in the same 20 secs time frame would be 6.66 million, 3.66 million to body + the death of a leg, the dps gain is bigger the faster the rogue can focus on body as long the extra dps on leg isnt taxing the dps on the body, the explanation is as simpple as that.

This is a very simplified example there are lots of other variables ot acount for like ramp up damage for the rogue switching targets but this should be applied both when he goes for the leg and when he goes from the leg to the body so ignoring it on both ends evens things out, flurry can be turned off for those 3.3 secs the leg is dead while rogue focus the body meaning he regenerates energy faster and therefore deals even more damage but locks loose some DPS form actualy spending the time applying the dots on legs so this is also more or less evened out. Not to mention the lock can go in the blue dotted line to apply his dots making them deal 45k damage to the leg instead of 30k wich would further increase raid DPS.

Also when you have everyone hititng the body when all legs are dead the body acumulates every single DPS increasing debuf so everyones damage increases a bit, the leg never has every single debuf on it cause its only focused by a few selected individuals, this is of course balanced by the blue doted lines buf however if the leg dies faster with the help of multi dotting/cleaves it helps everyoen increae theyre dps by a bit.


Conclusion multidoting and cleaving from body to legs with your ranged DPS (aka combustion) is an overall DPS gain. In fact multidoting is always a DPS increase regardless of bufs and wahtnot in every single fight cause of how little it taxes the dpser to apply them.

[Tehterokkar]

Believe me I do, every extra damage done to them for minimal tax is a overall DPS increase regardless of melee cleaving or not, only instance were itd be optmal to only have cleaver melees on legs was when the damage was also doubled on Garalons body (in other words the 2 first weeks fo Garalon). As I said ranged shouldnt focus legs but every extra damage to the legs for minimal tax is an overall DPS gain, let me exemplify.

For this example will say legs have 3 mil health for the sake of making math easier.

Lets say you have a rogue who deals 100k dps and is cleaving to body hitting the leg, with the buf this rogue is dealling 150k to leg and 80k to body (poisosn dont cleave and all that) so in 20 secs this rogue killed leg and dealt another 1.6 mil damage to the body, resulting in a total of 4.6 mil damage done to Garalon (leg dying + cleave damage)
Lets say we have an warlock dealling 100k damage and this lock is not multi dotting, in this 20 secs frame this lock dealt 2 mil damage to Garalon
In this first scenario damage done to Garalon in 20 seconds was 6.6 mil, 3 million from rogue killing leg + 1.6 million cleave to body from rogue + 2 million lock

Now for scenario number 2, rogue is still doing his thing with the same DPS but lock is now multidotting, lets say lock is dealling 30k dps to leg now as the result of his multi dot (not sure how much a lock would actualy do of dps from dots alone but you get the point).

DPS on leg is now 150k from rogue + 30k from lock = 180k leg dies in 16.7 secs aprox
DPS on body is 100k from lock + 80k from rogue cleaves for 16.7 seconds = 3 damage mil
For the other 3.3 secs rogue would do full damage so DPS on boss would be 100k form rogue + 100k form lock = 660k damage
So total damage done in the same 20 secs time frame would be 6.66 million, 3.66 million to body + the death of a leg, the dps gain is bigger the faster the rogue can focus on body as long the extra dps on leg isnt taxing the dps on the body, the explanation is as simpple as that.

This is a very simplified example there are lots of other variables ot acount for like ramp up damage for the rogue switching targets but this should be applied both when he goes for the leg and when he goes from the leg to the body so ignoring it on both ends evens things out, flurry can be turned off for those 3.3 secs the leg is dead while rogue focus the body meaning he regenerates energy faster and therefore deals even more damage but locks loose some DPS form actualy spending the time applying the dots on legs so this is also more or less evened out. Not to mention the lock can go in the blue dotted line to apply his dots making them deal 45k damage to the leg instead of 30k wich would further increase raid DPS.

Also when you have everyone hititng the body when all legs are dead the body acumulates every single DPS increasing debuf so everyones damage increases a bit, the leg never has every single debuf on it cause its only focused by a few selected individuals, this is of course balanced by the blue doted lines buf however if the leg dies faster with the help of multi dotting/cleaves it helps everyoen increae theyre dps by a bit.


Conclusion multidoting and cleaving from body to legs with your ranged DPS (aka combustion) is an overall DPS gain. In fact multidoting is always a DPS increase regardless of bufs and wahtnot in every single fight cause of how little it taxes the dpser to apply them.

Legs are for melee because they have a spawn time and Melees have the most efficient cleave. I could understand if the melee group is not fast enough at killing the legs, but otherwise Melee -> Legs, Ranged -> Boss.

For Melee, it's just changing from ability X to ability Y, eg. Warriors HS -> Cleave, turning a buff on, eg. Rogue Blade Flurry or doing usual DPS rotation, eg. DW FDK. Ranged have to switch targets for multi-dot, which can sometimes prove quite difficult, especially if the leg that is active is the furthest away from where the Ranged group stacks(usually middle or behind boss), which in turn, leads to less DPS.

Leg has a spawn timer of 30 secs, if you kill it in 10-15 secs because Ranged DPS "help", melee will be just smacking the boss then and ranged lose slight DPS by target switching, and the target switching isn't always best DPS since you kill it faster, DoTs will not tick their full duration, causing lost DPS for that GCD of dotting up the legs.

If everyone just focuses on their Job without trying to stat pad, it will be a kill, Kiters do their rotation correctly, Melees hug the legs and Ranged nuke the boss like it's a patchwerk fight.