1. #1

    How hard is the new Raid going to be? Normal + HC

    Im just curios how hard/easy the bosses in the upcoming raid are. (I'm not raiding normal/heroic myself, jsut interessted )


    Also, does it make sense to farm trash before the first boss to get to 2999/3000 reputation + trashloot? Is there enough trash to farm? =)


    Sry if this has been asked before, didn't find any thread for this topic

  2. #2
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Impossible to answer - depends on the skill level of your guild members. Some people can barely get 3 bosses on normal in the first two weeks, others will already knock on a full HM clear...
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  3. #3
    Is there even enough trash before the 1st boss to do a decent trash run?

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    I'd say ... as it mostly always has been the last expansions.
    - top ... 50 guilds (at least) will kill all normal bosses in the first day
    - top 5 guilds will then compete to kill all heroic bosses in the first 3-4 days
    - a somewhat hardcore progression oriented guild should be aiming for killing all normal bosses in at max three IDs, then heroic in another max 6 weeks (roughly two new heroic bosses each week). so after two month roughly (9 weeks), content should be cleared.
    - a normal casual guild (like mine) will be aiming for clearing normal content in 2-3 month, and going for heroic progress "as much as possible" until the next raid will be released.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    I'd say ... as it mostly always has been the last expansions.
    - top ... 50 guilds (at least) will kill all normal bosses in the first day
    - top 5 guilds will then compete to kill all heroic bosses in the first 3-4 days
    - a somewhat hardcore progression oriented guild should be aiming for killing all normal bosses in at max three IDs, then heroic in another max 6 weeks (roughly two new heroic bosses each week). so after two month roughly (9 weeks), content should be cleared.
    - a normal casual guild (like mine) will be aiming for clearing normal content in 2-3 month, and going for heroic progress "as much as possible" until the next raid will be released.
    Very positive and in depth answer. The only real question I have is how easy will the first 6 or so bosses be with a raid that is 510ilvl. I wonder what the balance is for the first six and last six considering the first boss is meant for a 502ilvl geared raid.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericprydz View Post
    Very positive and in depth answer. The only real question I have is how easy will the first 6 or so bosses be with a raid that is 510ilvl. I wonder what the balance is for the first six and last six considering the first boss is meant for a 502ilvl geared raid.
    if I would "design" raid boss difficulties, I'd design them as following:

    going with Blue gear into Tier one normal mode = balanced (challenging, but possible)
    Tier one heroic is balanced for Tier one normal geared
    Tier two normal is also balanced for Tier one normal geared
    And tier two heroic is balanced for Tier two normal.
    and so on... you get the idea.

    so if you go with tier one heroic gear into tier two normal, it will be "easy", even if the itemlevel that drops is slightly higher than the one you're wearing.


    and honestly, I think that is the only reasonable way. it would not make sense to balance tier two normal for people geared with tier one heroic gear. because majority of peoply will not have tier one heroic gear. maybe a few pieces, but this is not "tier one heroic geared" then
    Last edited by xebtria; 2013-03-05 at 01:46 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ericprydz View Post
    Very positive and in depth answer. The only real question I have is how easy will the first 6 or so bosses be with a raid that is 510ilvl. I wonder what the balance is for the first six and last six considering the first boss is meant for a 502ilvl geared raid.
    I don't think it' meant for a 502 ilvl raid, which means at least a MSV full heroic clear.
    Normal modes of next tier are supposed to be balanced around 495/500 ilvls imho, which means Tep-hof NM/elite bosses...

    Therefor i think you'll find NM a little undertuned if you step in in your 510 ilvl gear.

  8. #8
    You will not need heroic gear from a previous tier to be able to down bosses in a new tier, it's never worked like that. The first 6 bosses should be easily manageable with a group who have atleast cleared hof/terrace on normal. The beserk timer's should be a little more forgiving than some of the original "brickwalls" for most normal guilds in T14 (Elegon/Garalon) and due to this, aslong as you master the mechanics of the fight they should fall down.

    After the first 6 bosses there is a step up in difficulty, this will mean most guilds will probably not clear more than 6 or so bosses at the start and will have to gear up more via LFR/rep rewards/first 6 bosses.

    Guild's who are raiding hardmodes now should be able to clear all bosses on normal in the first week, depending on bugs and what not.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Blizzard indicated that ToT normal will be more about mechanics than hard enrages and the likes. So I'd assume that a little less gear is okay for as long as you can make up for it with leet skillz and stuff. Just hope that your tanks aren't held together by some strings and tape ^^

    I'd find it perfectly understandable and logical if 510+ geared people just waltz over normal mode. They're too good to find normal mode all that challenging and will surely kill a few heroic bosses the week after.

    The majority of raiders has, at the very most, a handful of T14 heroic bosses down and a great amount of people don't even care much about heroic progress. That's your target audience for ToT normal. Those are the people who should be able to clear it. And it's good that way. You shouldn't be forced to clear old content on heroic to access new normal mode content. And if Blizz holds true to their word and makes it more about mechanics than about enrage timers, those people will fare better in ToT than they did against MSV's and HoF's blocker bosses.

    I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how far people will get in the first week compared to T14. Following my server's overall progress on wowprogress is fairly interesting. I wonder how many guilds on my server will clear normal mode in the first week (well, the top 25-man guild will certainly manage, but as for everyone else, I don't know). I just hope the bosses' difficulty isn't too dependent on your raid comp again.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    Blizzard indicated that ToT normal will be more about mechanics than hard enrages and the likes. So I'd assume that a little less gear is okay for as long as you can make up for it with leet skillz and stuff.
    My guild is royally screwed then... straight forward boss with dpscheck? lol no problem! "Strange" mechanics and basic skillcheck? oh God kill me now please.
    I guess it's pretty common for casual raiding guilds.

  11. #11
    The first 3 or 4 bosses look to be fairly simple mechanics-wise, and gear-wise, so they ought to be downable in 492-498 average gear level if you don't derp too much. Once you've got those down you'll get a nice infusion of gear to get you past 5 and 6.

    I'm already wincing in anticipation of the coordination and communication we're going to need with Dark Animus.

  12. #12
    Blizzard said that guilds without proper gear from the previous Tier will have difficulty come the 4th boss (meaning any boss after the 4th (Tortos) will be difficult for them as well)

    If you have decent gear from the previous tier and have cleared 16/16N, you should be fine to clear normals in a few weeks in Throne.

  13. #13
    But the fact of the matter is, we're speculating before data here. We have no idea about any tuning adjustments that they've done since the raid testing, and we aren't going to be greeting these bosses in the item level that everyone was 'tuned' to. And there were odd bugs that were still being worked out in testing (although no showstoppers). And there are likely to be cheese strategies that nobody has yet shared for some of the encounter mechanics.

    We have a slightly less progressed group in our guild who I'm going to be urging to try Jin'rokh despite their somewhat lower average item level, because I think they're playing above their item level and they can down him. If it's the same as on PTR, that is. I won't know that tuning until I pull it tonight.

    Gah, this day is going slowly.

  14. #14
    Its hard to predict, as PTR tuning has been wierd.


    Either way, I'd suggest you at least attempt to try.

    A change of environment is always welcome :P

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    The majority of raiders has, at the very most, a handful of T14 heroic bosses down and a great amount of people don't even care much about heroic progress. That's your target audience for ToT normal. Those are the people who should be able to clear it.
    And this made me giggle >< the majority of the raiders are still stuck in HoF (if they didnt have chance to buy empress kill from better guild for the ToES access ><) Pls dont mistake majoruty of the mmochanpions posters with the majority of raiders thats 2 completly separate things.

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