1. #1

    Enhancer Simcraft

    Look at this Screen!

    -i.imgur.com/r8WeeFG.png- (left is the live server dps)

    can this be the real Enhancer DPS?
    I hope they didnt broke the enhancer Shaman its difficult enough to have a 10 man Raid as a Enhancer... And now that the dps isnt that good , i hope i wont lose my spot...

  2. #2
    well...
    at least you're not a dk.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Durio View Post
    Look at this Screen!

    -i.imgur.com/r8WeeFG.png- (left is the live server dps)

    can this be the real Enhancer DPS?
    I hope they didnt broke the enhancer Shaman its difficult enough to have a 10 man Raid as a Enhancer... And now that the dps isnt that good , i hope i wont lose my spot...
    First off, that's hardly anything to complain about. Second, it's still super early, who is to say that the simcraft isn't buggy with the new patch or other errors. Third, it's simcraft, this is dps in a vacuum, not actual fight mechanics. If you can effectively obey fight mechanics, not die to fire, target the correct targets, and provide utility to the raid you'll be fine. This post is in no way a sign for the Enh community to get all up in arms, the 5.2 changes are great for Enh and we should all be excited moving foward.

    Thanks to Axalicious for the great signature!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Durio View Post
    Look at this Screen!

    -i.imgur.com/r8WeeFG.png- (left is the live server dps)

    can this be the real Enhancer DPS?
    I hope they didnt broke the enhancer Shaman its difficult enough to have a 10 man Raid as a Enhancer... And now that the dps isnt that good , i hope i wont lose my spot...


    That was when the meta coefficients were wrong.
    GC changed it from .2 to .8 something or another in a later post, its still a sizable nerf from the 191k that we were seeing, but it puts us back in the middle of the pack.

  5. #5
    The Patient
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    Wow. Is this the new Standard? What about wait and see when you have T15hc gear if you still do low damage. There isn't a patchwork fight in 5.2 so why base your opinion on something that is never gonna be right. Also theoretical is just that, Theoretic.

    Also, i have seen a Blue Tweet that Enhance are going to be @ the top if they can do their rotation perfect. So just wait and see how actual data looks.

    Proof: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...1?page=80#1591
    Last edited by Beriohtarion; 2013-03-05 at 03:35 PM.

  6. #6
    Unfortunately number tuning for having full heroic t15 is totally irrelevant - at that point you've already won the game, numbers actually need to be balanced around a reasonable progression threshold.

    Please note that I am not validating the OPs point.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by flak View Post
    Unfortunately number tuning for having full heroic t15 is totally irrelevant - at that point you've already won the game, numbers actually need to be balanced around a reasonable progression threshold.
    going to have to agree with this, who cares about dps at full t15H, at that point, dps would be irrelevant.

    Not sure how other enh shamans are doing in 5.2, but i feel really hard to keep up in dps with all the other classes being buffed. Ill admit i pick the wrong talent, but most bosses were 1/2 shot it was kinda hard to pick pre pull before actually seeing the fight. (I picked AS/UF)

    First half of Tot, mostly aoe and huge movement, target switching fights.

    Also, i have seen a Blue Tweet that Enhance are going to be @ the top if they can do their rotation perfect. So just wait and see how actual data looks.
    this might not be true anymore as rppm is nerfed to true haste, and our meta proc multiplier is further reduced. Before this nerf, enh was not even close to being "overpowered". http://nerdqt.com/simc/all_5-3-2013.html. This is the sim i did with the latest available simcraft, with default T15H profiles.

    After the haste "nerfs" we might see enh down the bottom of the list, again, this is sim, which means a tank and spank fight, which does not exist in 5.2. But enhancement shaman has a bigger movement/target switching penalty compared to other classes, so in real, the gap might be larger.

    Now i'm not the best enh shaman in the world, and i do not play perfectly, but in 5.1, raiding with the same guild, I used to be top 5 on every fight easily. This tier, in the first raid i'm close to the bottom, except on the first boss which is pretty much a tank and spank with a short damage buff, i managed to fuck it up due to thinking lust would be used on the first pool.

    I think this will be a tough patch for progression as enh, due to nature of the fight, but then i've only really experienced the first half (normal) so far. Interested to see what other enh shamans think about this patch so far. (topping dps while tunneling doesn't count)

  8. #8
    Well having killed 4 bosses in the new raid, enhancement sucks. Warlocks and shadows are even more ahead than any time before. It's even worse than with 5.1. Rogues pulled more ahead, dks pulled ahead. Once we see more average dps like raid bots, enhancement will see a massive nerf in the numbers.

  9. #9
    It's unfortunate to see Enhancement close to the bottom. It indicates a lack of single target damage, which was the only redeeming factor to our otherwise seemingly average spec. Enhancements' AoE is complete shit, literally every other spec will do more AoE damage, and I don't understand how Ghostcrawler doesn't see this. In 5.1, Enhancement Shaman's were good / brought to progression because of high single target damage, however now that they're not one of the best mDPS specs, It'll be tough to justify bringing one in for the difficult Heroic progression. (rant over ;-; ).


    The problem with this picture is we can't see the profile that is being run for these tests. It'll be interesting to see if they're running the AS / PE build with 320 Haste gems / haste reforge. It could be a possibility that the sim was done using EoE / UF, which is certainly lower single target DPS than both AS / PE, and EM / PE

    السلام عليكم

  10. #10
    This makes me mad, I just dumped a bunch of money to switch from Ele to Enhance because I missed being enhance...

  11. #11
    Playing in top 100 guild, was in WoL front page in most fights during 5.1, and i loved my enha-shammy today! Dunno where that sim came to public, but it is weird. Looking at my guild dps overall during first 6 bosses, it is kinda upside down

  12. #12
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    It's simcraft. Don't use it for class comparisons. Heck be wary with using it for stat weights.

  13. #13

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix19 View Post
    Hyttis got logs?
    My situation is similar to Hyttis. On the first 4 fights so far (majority of people in my raid are full heroic BiS), I was 2nd on DPS behind a Rogue on Jin'Rokh, top 5 on Horridon (Could have timed my burst better for 200% damage increase phase), middle of the pack on council (Enhance' worst nightmare) and top 5 on Tortos. I'm unable to provide logs because they will be on private for progression, however my belief is that our DPS will be fine at the start of this tier, but we will fall off when other classes scale better (which they do every single expansion).

    السلام عليكم

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyttis View Post
    Playing in top 100 guild, was in WoL front page in most fights during 5.1, and i loved my enha-shammy today! Dunno where that sim came to public, but it is weird. Looking at my guild dps overall during first 6 bosses, it is kinda upside down
    interested to see logs as well, i could be undergeared compared to other raiders, most have 517 weapon. But its quite clear that I'm doing less overall after the patch (compared to the rest of the raid). Most of these fights are ranged preferred. On heroic its going to be hard to not stack ranged and take a few dks/monks/rogues to fill the rest of the spots.

    I do think i can top dps if I ignore machanics....I looked at a few guilds of similar progression (~US 80 last tier) and their enh is doing about the same as me and not close to top of meters.
    Last edited by Corixa; 2013-03-07 at 01:38 AM.

  16. #16
    Killed first 5 bosses in ToT and even though many fights favor multidot specs like in the last tier, I was not far behind on the single target fights. To me it seems like it will be the same as it used to be and there's really no reason to sit us out unless the fight mechanics favor ranged or another melee spec.

    My numbers, in ~507 ilvl:
    Jin'rokh - 2nd on 165k.
    Horridon - 4th on 150k
    Council - 3rd on 110k
    Sat out Tortos, seems like a great fight for us though.
    Megaera - 2nd on 110k

  17. #17
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    Hi, i also wanted to mention that i don't agree with Defines about enhancement being bad in dps, and you m8 were a good point to show that.

    For example, Defines, i am topping meters in AoE Fights like Windlord 25m HC can you explain that? The only player in my guild that beats me on this fight all the time, is an Arcane Mage with way better gear (came from a 16/16hc guild) where we stopped at 7/16.
    Especially about AoE fight like Wind Lord hc 25man, i do admit that the other enha shaman is way back in dps there, although similar gear, slightly less good weapons. Perhaps you are doing your AoE rotation wrong?
    What i do is always use Fire Nova between every 2 other skill presses, I prioritize on these 2 other skills, UF and FS if FS is less than 8sec remaining, then after next Fire Nova i will prioritize Lava Lash to respread FS otherwise it's Chain Lightning (glyphed) with MW5 otherwise is stormstrike. It will start slow on the meters but as the time passes i get higher in DPS and passing Elemental Shamans and many other classes, end result , if you play your CDs on Windlord burn dps right, is getting top 1-4.

    Enhancement shaman will never lose a spot in a raid if you play your role perfect.

    Ok please disregard my post, i will start raiding the new content this sunday so talking about how dps for enha is from my point of view is outdated. However , did some tests with simcraft 520-1 and my gear (503ilvl tier 14 4set bonus) and i have to say that :

    Untill we get tier 15 bonuses and end game gear :

    1) Elemental Mastery and Primal Elementalist are the way to go , seems burst is the way to go
    2) Mastery is still king of secondary stats.

    I can mail my results to anyone who is interested, Elemental Mastery - Primal Elementalist with glyphed Fire elemental and Mastery reforges/gems/enchants win at my tests !

    I do want to ask Corixa why is he using Ancestral Swiftness instead of Elemental mastery? In tier 15 set bonus, Elemental mastery will most possibly sync with Feral Spirit (4set bonus) and glyphed Fire Elemental And Ascendance. Did you use that subspec too in your simcraft? How did it perform?
    Last edited by voskopoula; 2013-03-07 at 08:19 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by voskopoula View Post
    Hi, i also wanted to mention that i don't agree with Defines about enhancement being bad in dps, and you m8 were a good point to show that.

    For example, Defines, i am topping meters in AoE Fights like Windlord 25m HC can you explain that? The only player in my guild that beats me on this fight all the time, is an Arcane Mage with way better gear (came from a 16/16hc guild) where we stopped at 7/16.
    Especially about AoE fight like Wind Lord hc 25man, i do admit that the other enha shaman is way back in dps there, although similar gear, slightly less good weapons. Perhaps you are doing your AoE rotation wrong?
    What i do is always use Fire Nova between every 2 other skill presses, I prioritize on these 2 other skills, UF and FS if FS is less than 8sec remaining, then after next Fire Nova i will prioritize Lava Lash to respread FS otherwise it's Chain Lightning (glyphed) with MW5 otherwise is stormstrike. It will start slow on the meters but as the time passes i get higher in DPS and passing Elemental Shamans and many other classes, end result , if you play your CDs on Windlord burn dps right, is getting top 1-4.

    Enhancement shaman will never lose a spot in a raid if you play your role perfect.
    we are talking about t15 in comparison to other classes....

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