1. #1

    Haste vs Crit for Arms

    At what point, exactly, does Haste > Crit? I've been trying to find the information and the closest I've gotten was AMR telling me I should reforge everything possible into Haste. Now that doesn't seem right, especially since their current weights still have crit above haste so I'm quite confused.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome
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    I'm sure its after you get the RPPM trinket(s) and legendary metagem. Before that it still should be crit>haste. If I'm wrong please correct me.

  3. #3
    I've been scratching my head over this one too, my best guess is that hastes value rises greatly when we get our T15 2 piece (chance to enrage on melee attacks) and the legendary meta gem, which according to some people benefits nicely from haste.

    However in T14 gear I would strongly advice against forging all out haste, I tried that on the PTR in modest ilvl 495 gear (replaced -all- crit gems with haste ones and reforged as much haste as possible), went from around 70k sustained over 10min on boss dummy with crit gear (only food+elixir and Bshout) down to around 68k sustained over 10min after going all out haste. Some random dummy numbers is very unreliable evidence by itself of course.

    The latest simcraft build however seems to point out a similar result, while my stat weight for crit/haste/mastery in 495 ilvl T14 gear turned out something like 2.1/1.6/1.4 (can't remember exact values but close enough), the full T15 heroic arms warrior profile sims stat weights closer to around 2.2/2.4/1.8 for crit/haste/mastery respectively.

    So somewhere along the road of gearing up in T15 haste seems to leap ahead of crit in value, but until then it is likely going to take some serious gearing up in T15 first.
    Ikelos@Argent Dawn EU

  4. #4
    Epic! Bosbeer's Avatar
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    Yea i'm kinda confused about this too.
    Because my warrior is almost lvl 90 atm and i want to alt raid with him (not sure which spec as of yet, but arms dps spec or prot) and i recently saw the change to haste benefit.
    So will haste be atleast more usefull then mastery next patch? and what dps spec is bttr, arms or fury?

  5. #5
    Via simcraft results (take with a grain of salt), Arms will do haste>crit>mastery when it has the Legendary Gem and double RPPM trinket (spark/gaze/talisman). The haste and crit values are close enough where if you don't have at least two, perhaps even if you don't have all three, you'll want Crit>rest, although Strength will be valuable enough to be put in hybrid sockets.
    For Fury, even with legendary/double rppm trinkets, it went Crit>Mastery>Haste, and there is a lot of speculation from other theorycrafters that the Legendary Meta might actually be a dps loss due to how crit reliant we already are/how much crit we'll have by the time we get the legendary.
    Mind you, this was with a 50% haste bonus which PTR sees, but since the patch notes NEVER reflected the nerf (it's said 100% the entire time), I'm assuming the haste bonus will only be 50% despite what the official patch notes say (same with the execute nerf, last heard it was 15% base, not 25%).

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by GuniorBinda View Post
    Yea i'm kinda confused about this too.
    Because my warrior is almost lvl 90 atm and i want to alt raid with him (not sure which spec as of yet, but arms dps spec or prot) and i recently saw the change to haste benefit.
    So will haste be atleast more usefull then mastery next patch? and what dps spec is bttr, arms or fury?
    What I've gathered from literally hours and hours of research and forum delving:

    1. The 50% haste buff puts the stat priority as Crit > Haste > Mastery
    2. Haste will likely take the lead spot as you gear up, specifically with Tier and the metagem.
    3. There is no "Which spec is better" any more. Preliminary statistics show all specs are in a very close ranking of each other. So close that, while SMF still pulls ahead slightly, it's negligible and you can now play whatever you want competitively within your raid group. (World class raiders will still push for SMF mind you).

  7. #7
    for pve the reforge to haste will be when you have tle legendary metagem and the gear from the thunder throne raid

    for pvp will be when you have the new tryannical set cause haste = more rage + sudden death procs= tons of damage

    my two cents

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Appolyon's Avatar
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    The other thing that I think comes into play here is the stat's gain % per point ratio (1:0.7). Haste is easier to get. It has been one of my biggest complaints with the combat table system. As warriors, so much of our performance is based on this curve. Rather than seeing a noticeable gain from a new pair of epic boots - we have to wait for weapons, trinkets and eek out an imbalanced stat. Our primary stat (crit) is only equal to the 3 primary avoidance/tank stats in terms of its silliness. I think it would be GREAT if we could see a point where we could enjoy some gain in a raid week if we got a new shiny that got us to a "cap" or something likened to all of the other classes in the game. The last time that was true for us (ArPen) they removed it from the game.

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