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  1. #41
    The Patient
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    My guild use this rule set:

    Loot is a need/greed basis, general pug loot applies. BUT!!!!! I expect everyone to be fair and mature about loot as well. The best interest of the raid group.
    (1 MS 1 OS, loot priority goes to committed,signed up raiders for the benefit of progression. Essences, BoE's and patterns go to GB.)
    (this helps pay your repairs and other perks like free enchants for all raiders)

  2. #42
    Using loot councile to distribute items, IMO the fairest way. Not biased towards any officers etc. we just decide who needs it for progression the most.
    Using any sort of RNG loot system is IMO kinda unfair, the RNG kicks us hard enough in 10-man for the item to even show up, no need to add yet another RNG.
    After couple of clears it's just offspec / shard loot anyway but for first weeks we usually prioritize tanks over everything else.
    BOE drops (like trash bracers) go to people also, we aren't charging any gold for that when it's main spec upgrade, or just fraction of retarded AH-price if it's offspec or sidegrade.

  3. #43
    I lead a 25m progression guild, and we use Loot Council with an officer core of 5 players (one tank, two healers, two dps) to distribute loot according to raid attendance, performance, attitude, overall guild contribution, etc.

    So far we haven't had any drama issues over loot, and at this point the guild seems to be "bigger" than any one person, so unless the guild as a whole seems to slip into a state of loathing for LC, I think we'll be sticking with it for a while.

    I just really prefer the greater level of optional control it offers over EPGP. Most of the time, my loot distributions will be pretty straightforward and will mirror what likely would've happened had EPGP been in place; but at times using loot as a diplomacy item or specific reward can be a really big help. (e.g. Heroic Solace or Deathbringer's Will; those were trinkets that you awarded to a player, not that you just "rolled it out")

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by LSPrimigenia View Post
    I lead a 25m progression guild, and we use Loot Council with an officer core of 5 players (one tank, two healers, two dps) to distribute loot according to raid attendance, performance, attitude, overall guild contribution, etc.

    So far we haven't had any drama issues over loot, and at this point the guild seems to be "bigger" than any one person, so unless the guild as a whole seems to slip into a state of loathing for LC, I think we'll be sticking with it for a while.

    I just really prefer the greater level of optional control it offers over EPGP. Most of the time, my loot distributions will be pretty straightforward and will mirror what likely would've happened had EPGP been in place; but at times using loot as a diplomacy item or specific reward can be a really big help. (e.g. Heroic Solace or Deathbringer's Will; those were trinkets that you awarded to a player, not that you just "rolled it out")
    Yeah, I agree with the points made here. Previous to raiding in MoP, I had suggested that we consider loot council exactly because of the reasons you stated.

    Our guild hardly has any loot drama now without loot council, but I think it would just be more fair and time efficient. Last night, when we downed Jin'rohk, the two people who won the rolls actually ended up trading the loot to other people because they were bigger upgrades and better for the guild overall. Had we had loot council, the people who ended up getting the gear would have most likely got it to begin with so...yeah, time efficient.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    We are a pretty tight-knit 10m guild so we (successfully) used Need over Greed for the majority of 5.1 raids. However, we noticed that on more than a few occasions, our consistent raiders got screwed over by losing rolls to our less active raiders/alts/pugs/etc.
    A pug should always have a fair and equal chance at loot, unless agreed upon prior to the raid. Whether Blizzard's rules state otherwise or not, if you don't give them that, good luck getting pugs to stay for the duration of the entire raid, let alone finding one with miffed ex pugs calling you out every time you spam trade.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryve View Post
    A pug should always have a fair and equal chance at loot, unless agreed upon prior to the raid. Whether Blizzard's rules state otherwise or not, if you don't give them that, good luck getting pugs to stay for the duration of the entire raid, let alone finding one with miffed ex pugs calling you out every time you spam trade.
    Yeah, I do want to mention that when we were still a 10m guild we always rolled on items that a pug was eligible for if we did have to pug a particular night, and we made sure they understood how we were going to distribute loot. As a 25m guild though, we have an oversized core for flexibility on fights or as a bad attendance safety net, and pugging seems to be a thing of the past (thank God).

  7. #47
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    The main team (heroic 25man) uses EPGP, seems to work well.

    The little social runs (that I'm a part of) used to use rolls - [Need(MS)>Need(OS)>Greed] until recently, we're now using a loot council to prevent any sort of issues. People generally get their BiS anyway but we had 5 vanq users in a 10man team (not ideal) plus a pala tank, me and a fury warrior who all wanted "DPS" plate.

    Loot council really is the way to go.
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  8. #48
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Usually just roll and loot council pieces necessary for progression. Gear the raid, not players etc.
    You get a thumbs up, pat on the back and a "way to go" from your label every day, looking boy
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryve View Post
    A pug should always have a fair and equal chance at loot, unless agreed upon prior to the raid. Whether Blizzard's rules state otherwise or not, if you don't give them that, good luck getting pugs to stay for the duration of the entire raid, let alone finding one with miffed ex pugs calling you out every time you spam trade.
    We've always been fair to our pugs. We understand that they're taking time out of their night to come and raid with us. Most pugs that we've brought have enjoyed raiding with us and have joined us for future raids when we needed that 10th spot filled.

    I definitely understand your point though and in retrospect I shouldn't have stuck "pug" in that list. It's really the first two that are the problem.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    Just curious what kind of loot policy people used in their guilds.

    We are a pretty tight-knit 10m guild so we (successfully) used Need over Greed for the majority of 5.1 raids. However, we noticed that on more than a few occasions, our consistent raiders got screwed over by losing rolls to our less active raiders/alts/pugs/etc.

    Loot drama hasn't been an issue yet (/salute for mature guild mates), but we were thinking about having a more robust loot system in order to fairly reward those who deserve loot the most.

    So...looking for some ideas!
    Loot council

    We use a tiered loot council system. Whoever can use the gear decides between them who should get it depending on who needs it more. If they can't decide immediately, people voice their input as they see fit "I think that aught to go to a healer over a dps since our next progression fight is supposed to be hard to heal" something like that, really just any input is welcome. Finally, if they still can't decide, or disagree for some reason, myself or the GM make the decision for them.

    I honestly believe this is the best system. If you perform well, the raid will acknowledge that when deciding loot collectively. Loot can be distributed either by need or by performance depending on the way your guild is run. Since all of our raiders perform well, our loot is determined almost entirely by need. At the back of the system there is the oversight of the officers/GM who can then use the system as they see fit, to include punishing poor performance without actually 'hurting' someone via the traditional method of removing DKP or the like. Rolls are 'fair' but they are not even close to equal. DKP is 'equal' but it is not even close to fair. Go loot council

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-06 at 11:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    We've always been fair to our pugs. We understand that they're taking time out of their night to come and raid with us. Most pugs that we've brought have enjoyed raiding with us and have joined us for future raids when we needed that 10th spot filled.

    I definitely understand your point though and in retrospect I shouldn't have stuck "pug" in that list. It's really the first two that are the problem.
    In t14, we were switching to /rolls for pugs. In t12, we included pugs in our loot council. I strongly suggest (if you do loot council) to use it for pugs as well. As long as you're fair about it you won't have a problem. Especially if your guild is decent and those pugs wouldnt have been able to see the content anyway, they won't mind losing gear to someone else who needs and deserves it. In t14, we brought a pug lock a few times, and he won every item he rolled on but one. Never going to happen again

  11. #51

  12. #52
    Here is a question for those who use loot council:

    How do the free rolls play into your decisions? If somebody has been really lucky with free rolls do you pass that person over for loot, even if they should really be 'in line' for something? Do you feel like you might demoralize a raider if this results in that person not actually being given loot for 'long' periods of time? It is great to get items as part of a free roll, but being chosen to receive something from the council is a form of recognition.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
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  13. #53
    We're a 10m guild, and we do it fairly basic; each raider creates a list of loot they want from the raids in question, this is posted up in our guild forum. When something on said loot list drops, it goes to a council of the GM and the Officers on who gets it, if there's no competition for a piece it goes to them without contest, and people are free to pass loot they'd otherwise win to others with no issue.

    We generally decide by size of upgrade in relative terms for spec (For example, a 2H Frost DK like myself has a much higher priority on that Haste/Crit 2H sword then someone's offspec, or our Fury Warrior's TG cleave set) and by actual item upgrades: if two people have the same item on their List, but say one has a 463 blue in that slot, and the other a 476 epic, we cede for the larger upgrade.

    Tier is handled by a basic process of who has however many pieces, if you have 1 piece already and another of your Token drops, you get priority over others if it'll net you a two-set, and if you want it. Then you're at the back of the line until everyone else gets their 2-set on your token, and it starts again with 3/4 tier.

    Been drama-free as far as loot is concerned for a whole tier.
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  14. #54
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    /roll for us. MS>OS and raider > trial. 10-man guild. No loot drama ^^ what so ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  15. #55
    We're a 10man and we use lootcouncil. We have steady raidmembers, so none of your issues OP, but we use lootcouncil to make sure loot is distributed fairly. DKP felt way too elaborate for it and it discourages voluntarily sitting, making it harder for officers to make a set up. We pretty much do it like Murdos who posted 2 posts before me.

    Loot council is between 4 officers, if officers need something they don't get to discuss. We discuss in private but always announce the reasons for the decisions. Raiders are required to make bis lists for this tier so we don't give out loot unnecessarily and it spreads out the tables more easily (a fire mage will sometimes want different stuff than an aff lock, for example!). Other than that it's based on: 1) effort, does raider have bislist uploaded, does he have coins, has he done his dailies as required, been using proper food. this is almost always the case really; 2) when was the last time he received an upgrade, 3) how much bigger or better is the upgrade for him (for example 20ilvl increase over 4 ilvl increase, or a crit ring that will probably benefit the warrior more point per point than whatever other melee), and lastly 4) if it's tier, will he get 2 or 4 set = always prio.

    Hope that gave you some insights. So far we never had loot drama, but then we're a pretty mature guild.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Here is a question for those who use loot council:

    How do the free rolls play into your decisions? If somebody has been really lucky with free rolls do you pass that person over for loot, even if they should really be 'in line' for something? Do you feel like you might demoralize a raider if this results in that person not actually being given loot for 'long' periods of time? It is great to get items as part of a free roll, but being chosen to receive something from the council is a form of recognition.
    if someone has been really lucky with rolls, then they probably need the rest of the gear less than others and have reduced priority already.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-06 at 09:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    /roll for us. MS>OS and raider > trial. 10-man guild. No loot drama ^^ what so ever.
    have never had loot drama in loot council, have been doing it since firelands

  17. #57
    Lootcouncil who would waste time for all this DKP shit.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by bitterbrew View Post
    loot council unless there is a pug. if the pug doesnt win the roll; then we loot council.
    As of late there seems to be some issues with greedy officers trying to bend the rules; our healer called them out once or twice and no more problems.

    Odd system so when it is all of you the officers or group decides who gets what, but when a pug comes in you go to rolls. Normally it is the other way around doing that way benefits the pug the most. I am all for fair loot systems but setting up something that you stop using if you bring in a new player is planting the seeds for some discontent raiders.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Odd system so when it is all of you the officers or group decides who gets what, but when a pug comes in you go to rolls. Normally it is the other way around doing that way benefits the pug the most. I am all for fair loot systems but setting up something that you stop using if you bring in a new player is planting the seeds for some discontent raiders.
    nah its pretty standard to switch to /rolls when a pug comes in

    although your wording indicates maybe a misunderstanding - "bring in a new player" sounds like 'trial', which is very different from 'pug'

  20. #60
    free roll / roll need on what u need , greed / pass everything else [10 man]

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