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  1. #21
    How does haste give more Chi... have I missed something out? Or is it the 6k haste play style with soothing?

    Yeah with the 2 piece its worth going for the 6k haste break point in non serpent stance I think but... getting more mana from haste? :S

    I don't get this " Haste will give you roughly 60% as much mana tea than if you had allocated those points into Critical Strike HOWEVER it will be guaranteed and not based on RNG." :S

    Only spell benefiting from haste is ReM which are the breakpoints and faster soothing channel.
    Last edited by Apaylo; 2013-03-06 at 12:04 AM.

  2. #22
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Apaylo View Post
    How does haste give more Chi... have I missed something out? Or is it the 6k haste play style with soothing?

    Yeah with the 2 piece its worth going for the 6k haste break point in non serpent stance I think but... getting more mana from haste? :S
    Finite fight durations, more haste = more ticks = more chi. As a result of more chi, it means more Chi expenditure which also means more mana tea returns, however it's lower than the amount you would typically get from putting the points in crit but also a lot more reliable.

  3. #23
    I don't think Soothing mists gives more ticks with haste.... I do know the cast time becomes shorter, more ticks in sense. But surely its for a pure mist weaver pov right? I mean you can fistweave for a bit at the starting and lull damage periods.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    Breakpoints aren't a dealbreaker this patch unfortunately, getting as much Chi as you can and as many ticks as possible before damage is completely healed up is.
    Heavy reliance on RM through the set bonus, and you think that making RM shorter isn't a dealbreaker?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Apaylo View Post
    I don't think Soothing mists gives more ticks with haste.... I do know the cast time becomes shorter, more ticks in sense. But surely its for a pure mist weaver pov right? I mean you can fistweave for a bit at the starting and lull damage periods.
    And that's where the argument varies. If you only submit to mistweaving your chi generators all scale very well with haste, otherwise haste isn't as attractive as it seems. It's basically the same as a retribution paladin gearing for haste since Sanctity of Battle means more haste = more holy power, except our chi gen isn't guaranteed (although at 50% haste you're bound to get some awesome chi gen from SM), and our type of healing will vary from encounter.

    To play optimally you need to find a balance and you inevitably need to perform both mistweaving and fistweaving, that's my argument against not going for 50% haste in full BiS gear, but rather going for at least 6145 haste with 2T15.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Heavy reliance on RM through the set bonus, and you think that making RM shorter isn't a dealbreaker?
    It's not a heavy reliance, it's a relation that's worth noting. The duration was only detrimental for the purpose for the optimal TFT window to gain an extra tick, that concept has become outdated with this patch as we don't have the luxury of ludicrous chi generation, or reliability on it being there even. There's also the fact RPPM scales with haste among others, 50% more procs doesn't sound like something bad.
    Last edited by mmoc3f252392be; 2013-03-06 at 12:28 AM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    And that's where the argument varies. If you only submit to mistweaving your chi generators all scale very well with haste, otherwise haste isn't as attractive as it seems. It's basically the same as a retribution paladin gearing for haste since Sanctity of Battle means more haste = more holy power, except our chi gen isn't guaranteed (although at 50% haste you're bound to get some awesome chi gen from SM), and our type of healing will vary from encounter.

    To play optimally you need to find a balance and you inevitably need to perform both mistweaving and fistweaving, that's my argument against not going for 50% haste in full BiS gear, but rather going for at least 6145 haste with 2T15.
    I agree yeah.. I speak from a 10 POV where the healer dps is quite significant. Another thing with haste is, isn't it more of a DR to stack? Im quite sure the benefits of stacking haste with DR with ever % you go up right?

  8. #28
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    And that's where the argument varies. If you only submit to mistweaving your chi generators all scale very well with haste, otherwise haste isn't as attractive as it seems. It's basically the same as a retribution paladin gearing for haste since Sanctity of Battle means more haste = more holy power, except our chi gen isn't guaranteed (although at 50% haste you're bound to get some awesome chi gen from SM), and our type of healing will vary from encounter.

    To play optimally you need to find a balance and you inevitably need to perform both mistweaving and fistweaving, that's my argument against not going for 50% haste in full BiS gear, but rather going for at least 6145 haste with 2T15.
    I have a less than 20k dps difference between BiS haste and crit, assuming all of that were to benefit from eminence (it doesn't) that's a less than 12k HPS difference and that's before factoring in the fact you still cast ReM while fistweaving. Considering you'll be fistweaving usually for a relatively small period of time it's not something I'm going to advocate gearing around, even if there were a fight such as elegon where it were broken you can quite easily reforge out of haste into crit and benefit that playstyle, you can't do the opposite.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-06 at 12:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Apaylo View Post
    I agree yeah.. I speak from a 10 POV where the healer dps is quite significant. Another thing with haste is, isn't it more of a DR to stack? Im quite sure the benefits of stacking haste with DR with ever % you go up right?
    Haste will be more or less effective depending on how much you have, that's due to interaction with spells but not the idea it has a DR. 425.19 haste rating = 1% haste at all values of haste. We would hit a pretty big diminishing return barrier if SCK could be reduced below 1 second, to do that though you'd need somewhere in the realm of 120% haste.*

    Oh and none of this is to say crit is now a bad stat, it's just slightly worse and haste got a whole lot better because of improvements in Soothing and the fact Jab isn't a chi generator for uplift/enveloping anymore.


    *Could probably be achievable in the final tier while benefitting from bloodlust :P
    Last edited by mmoc3f252392be; 2013-03-06 at 12:42 AM.

  9. #29
    Question: That is purely from a Mist weaving POV right? Not taking Fist weaving into account at all for the full duration of the fight right?

  10. #30
    Deleted
    If you're going to fistweave for the full duration of a fight and you want more damage a reforge for crit is going to benefit you more, in terms of DPS at least.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    I have a less than 20k dps difference between BiS haste and crit, assuming all of that were to benefit from eminence (it doesn't) that's a less than 12k HPS difference and that's before factoring in the fact you still cast ReM while fistweaving. Considering you'll be fistweaving usually for a relatively small period of time it's not something I'm going to advocate gearing around, even if there were a fight such as elegon where it were broken you can quite easily reforge out of haste into crit and benefit that playstyle, you can't do the opposite.
    Yeah but that's not exactly the point I was trying to get at >.<

    I'll use some examples. Iron Qon has some constant AoE damage going on if you group up in a way which makes his guardian thing unleash flame everytime it can (I think that's how it works?) so it can spend it's 30 magma energy whatever stuff :P On that fight, and if you stack with ranged which you probably should, haste is such a good stat since you'll be using SCK quite frequently and blanket healing will be called for. Basically, consistent damage. When you're dealing with an encounter that has burst periods like Horridon with Dire Horn and Ji-Kun with Quill, where's that haste going to be useful? That ReM healing will come in handy, you might generate a lot of chi with SM but to be safe you'll probably have to jab once or twice to uplift, which will be the bulk of your healing on that encounter. In that circumstance haste will not serve it's purpose as meaningfully and you'd regret not having that crit for your snipe uplift healing.

    As I said, gearing for full haste isn't something you should rule out, to be optimal you'd probably have to reforge between fights but these guides usually need a general consensus to avoid confusing players that are looking for a general stat priority. I liked your post and your justification for going for a high haste build but honestly we need to see how it works in practice. :P

  12. #32
    Deleted
    Going from low damage to high damage is fairly predictable, the overheal amount is probably quite significant and you should have TFT up anyway and SCK will still be effective if the high damage is raidwide. If it's a select few among your raid and you're spread out gearing for crit isn't going to make a significant difference, in that scenario I would have Chi Wave for reliable cluster healing.

  13. #33
    Deleted

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    Int = Spirit Until Comfortable >> Haste >= Critical Strike >>>>>> Mastery (garbage)
    Could you clarify if this stat priority is primarily aimed at those going for ToT or should it be viable for those of us behind in progression?

  14. #34
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharin View Post
    Could you clarify if this stat priority is primarily aimed at those going for ToT or should it be viable for those of us behind in progression?
    Yes, that is the best priority. Avoid mastery at all costs, especially at your gear level.

  15. #35
    Deleted

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    Yes, that is the best priority. Avoid mastery at all costs, especially at your gear level.
    Cheers Reglitch, Your guides are a huge help.

  16. #36
    Deleted
    Would you guys say its worth waiting for the 2 set before going for 6145 haste? im sitting at a 499 item level atm

  17. #37
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by suiki View Post
    Would you guys say its worth waiting for the 2 set before going for 6145 haste? im sitting at a 499 item level atm
    Look a few posts above yours.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    I can see that, but is that the 6145 or 3145 cap?

  19. #39
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    BTW Memory Muscle does not work in tiger stance, not sure when they changed it but I am sure it is an undocutmented fix during the ptr.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  20. #40
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by suiki View Post
    I can see that, but is that the 6145 or 3145 cap?
    Caps are irrelevant haste is good at all values now

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