"Bring Windwalkers up to par in both PvE and PvP."

[Deleted]

Thats why we nerfed the hell out of them by 15%.

Imagine if the intention was to actually nerf us.

[Deleted]

Wotlk DKs will always be our perennial curse, always looming behind our shoulders.

[Alviarin]

I feel like I'm hitting like a wet noodle now, which seems logical for a class of Asian inspiration...

[pkm]

I feel like I'm hitting like a wet noodle now, which seems logical for a class of Asian inspiration...

I lost my shit sir...

[Mengucekli]

This is a fucking joke. Blizzard is a fucking joke. And they suck at this shit, they have no idea what the fuck they are doing. This is all a big joke and that's it, i'm going to reroll and finish leveling my DK.

Infracted

[Deleted]

Read that post yesterday, and when I saw that they said they wanted to bring Windwalkers up to par, I simply burst into laughter. Honestly, do they actually have a fucking clue about what they're doing? Dumb question, I know. They obviously do not.

[Jawless Jones]

i really want to catch a plan to blizz HQ and slap some god damn sense into these so called "developers"....

[George Costanza]

I am kinda ok with it. a little boost wouldn't hurt, but :P.

[Manabomb]

I feel as if a lot of these complaints are centered in pvp or at end game min maxing heroic guilds. Honestly, in my normal guild going through ToES and the first part of ToT, I feel myself and the other monk we roll with doing competitive damage with an affli/destro warlock, fury warrior and feral druid. Not sure whether to mock or to quote blizzard for the thousandth time "we don't want wotlk dks".

[Silverblade Paladin]

I feel as if a lot of these complaints are centered in pvp or at end game min maxing heroic guilds. Honestly, in my normal guild going through ToES and the first part of ToT, I feel myself and the other monk we roll with doing competitive damage with an affli/destro warlock, fury warrior and feral druid. Not sure whether to mock or to quote blizzard for the thousandth time "we don't want wotlk dks".

When you are in "normal modes" I don't really think you can use the "I'm doing good dps compared to other people in my Guild!" argument. Since we do not know if those other players are just mediocre and you are competitive with them due to them being bad.

When you actually look at guilds that are using Skilled players across all classes, there has been a significant drop in sustained DPS from WW's, and the only time they begin to catch up to the Pre-nerf DPS is during TeB.

Having to use our Mastery as the only way to be around the same level of DPS pre-nerf is retarded for anyone in lower Ilvl gear that does not have the extra secondary stats to switch around and play with. I can without a doubt say anyone that starts a new Monk and wants to raid that is not an alt in an already established guild are going to have a fucking hell of a time proving their DPS.

Since the Vicious Cycle for Monks now is >Need good gear to DPS in Raid>Need to Raid to get good Gear to DPS>

Imo, they need to revert the Stance Nerf, they can keep the RSK nerf, and maybe bring back our % per Mastery point down about 20-25%. So that we have most of the Sustained back, and a little less burst from hard Mastery Stacking.

[George Costanza]

Just make tiger stance 12% or 15 % nothing else is "Needed"... would be too much of a dps increase anyways :P.

[Manabomb]

When you are in "normal modes" I don't really think you can use the "I'm doing good dps compared to other people in my Guild!" argument. Since we do not know if those other players are just mediocre and you are competitive with them due to them being bad.

When you actually look at guilds that are using Skilled players across all classes, there has been a significant drop in sustained DPS from WW's, and the only time they begin to catch up to the Pre-nerf DPS is during TeB.

Having to use our Mastery as the only way to be around the same level of DPS pre-nerf is retarded for anyone in lower Ilvl gear that does not have the extra secondary stats to switch around and play with. I can without a doubt say anyone that starts a new Monk and wants to raid that is not an alt in an already established guild are going to have a fucking hell of a time proving their DPS.

Since the Vicious Cycle for Monks now is >Need good gear to DPS in Raid>Need to Raid to get good Gear to DPS>

Imo, they need to revert the Stance Nerf, they can keep the RSK nerf, and maybe bring back our % per Mastery point down about 20-25%. So that we have most of the Sustained back, and a little less burst from hard Mastery Stacking.

While I guess you would be correct in saying that you do not know my guild or their capability, I would like to point out when I say "normal" I normally mean "middle of the pack" or "middle ground" in terms of skill, capability of dps and/or otherwise. Considering this there is a host of parses and comparisons of "middle of the pack players" not only playing monk, but other classes, I think me saying "my normal guild" should be self explanatory.

I will agree that our dps is too reliant around TeB and I honestly feel the entire mastery reworking as a band-aid fix to try and hit 3 birds with one stone. Make mastery useful, increase burst in pvp, increase damage in pve. However the damage does even out around 30 seconds-1 minute into an encounter.

As far as the "vicious cycle" this is apparent for most classes as is. Take a look, affliction warlocks getting a soft haste cap after hit cap before wanting to invest into mastery. As I said, from a normal, middle of the pack raider wise point of view, WW's are rather functional. Outside of that realm into min maxing and heroic guilds I can see that being an issue and can see monks being benched for fdks, any ranged or ferals.

To fix this problem? It would take yet another reworking of our mastery, honestly. Perhaps allow stacks of TeB gained increase damage passively for one third as much but all the time, and consuming 10 stacks gives you the "full amount" of damage increase and prevent gaining the passive damage from residual TeB stacks while TeB is active. A way to prevent one sitting at 20 stacks and getting a rather large amount of passive damage would be the lower the capacity to 15 (honestly, 10 was horrible, but 20 is something I personally never hit.) It would lessen the damage ramp up you speak of and still keep the burst given in pvp while not allowing one to sit at 20 stacks for the full damage buff.

[Viradiance]

Yeah, windwalkers are soooooo shit.

I mean, I used one Jab to use RSK and that shit only non-crits for 120k unbuffed in 490 gear. So shitty. And it has suuuuch a long cooldown. 8 seconds, so bad. And Fists of Fury is even worse! I mean, what is it, only a 250k damage channel (And that's with no crits) on a 20-25 second cooldown?

And look at Blackout Kick. I mean, what the hell? We can only cast it every other global, give or take a second occasionally. And it has the nerve to only hit for 90k unbuffed in my gear with a 40% DoT.

And this is all post '15%' nerf.

Yeah, get your head out of your ass, Windwalker is fine.

[Deleted]

GC: Hey, monks, remember when I said I will be buffing you in order to entice people to actually play the class in pvp ? Yeah, I lied, here's some nerfs actually.

[Manabomb]

Yeah, windwalkers are soooooo shit.

I mean, I used one Jab to use RSK and that shit only non-crits for 120k unbuffed in 490 gear. So shitty. And it has suuuuch a long cooldown. 8 seconds, so bad. And Fists of Fury is even worse! I mean, what is it, only a 250k damage channel (And that's with no crits) on a 20-25 second cooldown?

And look at Blackout Kick. I mean, what the hell? We can only cast it every other global, give or take a second occasionally. And it has the nerve to only hit for 90k unbuffed in my gear with a 40% DoT.

And this is all post '15%' nerf.

Yeah, get your head out of your ass, Windwalker is fine.

I love the dripping sarcasm of your post. And I do agree with you. Windwalker is fine. We aren't tuned to be fotm (thank god, because then I'd fear 5.3) but we aren't so brutally down on the damage charts to suggest the spec not be viable. The only thing I'd suggest is what I said earlier about ramp up issues and evening out our dps before we start sitting on TeB stacks.

[Deleted]

I love the dripping sarcasm of your post. And I do agree with you. Windwalker is fine. We aren't tuned to be fotm (thank god, because then I'd fear 5.3) but we aren't so brutally down on the damage charts to suggest the spec not be viable. The only thing I'd suggest is what I said earlier about ramp up issues and evening out our dps before we start sitting on TeB stacks.

I'm gonna have to agree with that.

Monks scale extremely well with gear. So well that an undergeared ww monk is...HORRIBLE in pvp. You get wrecked by warriors, dks, rogues and what not, but once you get a nice amount of pvp gear everything changes. Those melee stop doing so much damage and you can easily discover in a fight that their hp go down faster than yours.

People are demoralized cause they get ganked while leveling and lose most fights but that's pretty normal if you ask me. Only at 90 and with nice pvp gear on, do monks start bashing faces and you'll discover that only good hunters and good rogues can deffo beat you in 1v1s.

[Viradiance]

I love the dripping sarcasm of your post. And I do agree with you. Windwalker is fine. We aren't tuned to be fotm (thank god, because then I'd fear 5.3) but we aren't so brutally down on the damage charts to suggest the spec not be viable. The only thing I'd suggest is what I said earlier about ramp up issues and evening out our dps before we start sitting on TeB stacks.

My only real wish for the class is a proper burst cooldown. I'd like to see something on a reasonable cooldown (~3 mins) that instantly generates 10 Tigerseye Brew.

It'd give us some much needed love in the PVP and PVE burst department. We do great front-loaded damage, but it's just not quite the same as proper burst. Having to spend 23 GCDs (15 jabs for chi, 7 BOKs and one Tiger Palm, just a random combination) to set have access to our one cooldown is sorta a hassle.

Really, though, everyone complains when their class is 'Middle of the Pack'. Middle of the pack is the best place to be! No incoming massive nerfs to disappoint you in the next patch. And no being shit today.

Seriously. Everyone wants to be the top DPS class. We can't all be the top DPS class. Don't bitch that you're not, it's literally impossible. Take pleasure in adequacy.

[Silverblade Paladin]

Yeah, windwalkers are soooooo shit.

I mean, I used one Jab to use RSK and that shit only non-crits for 120k unbuffed in 490 gear. So shitty. And it has suuuuch a long cooldown. 8 seconds, so bad. And Fists of Fury is even worse! I mean, what is it, only a 250k damage channel (And that's with no crits) on a 20-25 second cooldown?

And look at Blackout Kick. I mean, what the hell? We can only cast it every other global, give or take a second occasionally. And it has the nerve to only hit for 90k unbuffed in my gear with a 40% DoT.

And this is all post '15%' nerf.

Yeah, get your head out of your ass, Windwalker is fine.

Oh look, another LFR hero pretending to know what he is talking about.

Infracted

[Manabomb]

Oh look, another LFR hero pretending to know what he is talking about.

And you do? You've said nothing to suggest you know anything about the ww monk class and it's needs other than that you didn't like the nerfs and wantt maor buffz.

We are middle of the pack dps. We are not mages nor rogues who will probably be class stacked to oblivion pending opening heroic encounters. You want to be highest deepz? You have two options, re-roll or wait for the day ghostcrawler show's up to work drunk and gives us the full damage working rendition of xuen as a perma pet.

[Silverblade Paladin]

And you do? You've said nothing to suggest you know anything about the ww monk class and it's needs other than that you didn't like the nerfs and wantt maor buffz.

We are middle of the pack dps. We are not mages nor rogues who will probably be class stacked to oblivion pending opening heroic encounters. You want to be highest deepz? You have two options, re-roll or wait for the day ghostcrawler show's up to work drunk and gives us the full damage working rendition of xuen as a perma pet.

I didn't say I wanted to be Highest deepz, I said the way they went about our change was wrong, and they fucked our sustained while buffing our burst, meaning inbetween TeB we fall to a low DPS and only make it up in TeB cycles.

There was no need for them to change that, I moved away from my Ret Paladin for the exact same reason, as I hate classes that hold shit-house sustained and only catch up in damage during our Burst phases. I couldn't really care if I was middle of the Pack it comes down to it being annoying that they have changed how combat rolls for monks now, and that by losing any uptime during a burst by needing to move out from a pack or movement due to Boss mechanics that It severely impacts your overall damage. It doesn't matter if you aren't top DPS, but when you end up near the bottom of the pack due to things of that nature, it makes it harder to hold a raid position when a RL can bring another class with better sustained DPS to cover your role.