Page 1 of 4
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    10,525

    Invocation. Ouch.

    Invocation used to restore 40-50% of my health over what, 5 seconds? Now its 10% over half that?
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads

  2. #2
    halved channeling and halved the healing done it was 20% for invocation 40% for IW evocation

    i know its bit odd they nerfed the healing thing but yea :/

  3. #3
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    10,525
    Considering it's pretty much a mage's only method of combat healing outside sitting to eat... Kinda lame. And the 15% over 1min vs 25% over 40sec... I can see that being good for raiding? But everything else.. Ow.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Fuck you, that's where.
    Posts
    4,496
    I'm not a Mage so I might be talking from my butthole now. But wouldn't this be beneficial to your class? Arranging a 2.5 second window to get a full invo isn't a problem for a Mage in pvp. I'm assuming we're talking from a PVP PoV? This change just makes Invocation a viable choice preburst or as a "spam" heal.
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side.

  5. #5
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    10,525
    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    I'm not a Mage so I might be talking from my butthole now. But wouldn't this be beneficial to your class? Arranging a 2.5 second window to get a full invo isn't a problem for a Mage in pvp. I'm assuming we're talking from a PVP PoV? This change just makes Invocation a viable choice preburst or as a "spam" heal.
    It used to be 40% (maybe more) health over 5 seconds. Now its 10% over 2.5 seconds. So it's half the time, but a quarter the healing.

    The damage is 15% over 60s, but was 25% over 40s.... The new way is better dps for raids, but worse dps for anything outside of raids.

    Basically its worse healing all around, and partially worse damage.

    As a particularly squishly class, it sucks to have our survivability hit even more
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Fuck you, that's where.
    Posts
    4,496
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    It used to be 40% (maybe more) health over 5 seconds. Now its 10% over 2.5 seconds. So it's half the time, but a quarter the healing.

    The damage is 15% over 60s, but was 25% over 40s.... The new way is better dps for raids, but worse dps for anything outside of raids.

    Basically its worse healing all around, and partially worse damage.

    As a particularly squishly class, it sucks to have our survivability hit even more
    In my opinion it's a buffnerf. Think we have to wait and see how this plays off when the new season arrive before we can make any conclusions. I can only speak for myself at this point, if I played a Mage I'd rather have this version of the spell. This means I could use Invo quite openly and more often than the old version would allow me to. As a hunter and a counter to Mages I know that you are at your weakest while using invocation. You have to run away FAR from where you are needed if you want to get the full channel out and you also have to stand still which makes it easycake for me to reach up and scatter you long before you ever reach to get the full channel out. For arena I think this is a beneficial change(not buff) for RBG and outdoor, that remains to be seen.

    Pet freeze-> Invo-> DF->pop cd's->Burst=profit?
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side.

  7. #7
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Indiana, United States
    Posts
    3,116
    Done some raiding with it so far. Loving the new invo. Yeah it isn't as much damage or healing, but the channeling halving makes it so much smoother in the grand scheme of things.
    Battletag: Rhaegas#1141
    Armory: Valefaran
    "You can call me Queen V"

  8. #8
    Wasn't Invocation always 40% after the channel finished? The 6 second channel? With no healing on any of the ticks? And a cooldown?
    Meaning you'd get a heal off that outside a PvE environment once in never?

    The new Invocation heals for 1/4 the amount but it also has 1/2 of the cast time and no cooldown at all.
    It sounds to me like you're comparing untalented evocate with invocation...

  9. #9
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    10,525
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Wasn't Invocation always 40% after the channel finished? The 6 second channel? With no healing on any of the ticks? And a cooldown?
    Meaning you'd get a heal off that outside a PvE environment once in never?
    It has a 10 second cooldown, with a 6 second cast. So its 40% every 10 seconds over time. Which is I GUESS the same now, except it was 40 after 6, instead of 20 after 6 =/

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 07:06 PM ----------

    And I ALWAYS use it in combat. Its been a life saver.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Fuck you, that's where.
    Posts
    4,496
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    It has a 10 second cooldown, with a 6 second cast. So its 40% every 10 seconds over time. Which is I GUESS the same now, except it was 40 after 6, instead of 20 after 6 =/

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 07:06 PM ----------

    And I ALWAYS use it in combat. Its been a life saver.
    "Invocation now removes Evocation cooldown"
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side.

  11. #11
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    10,525
    Yes but that still leaves me with LESS health quickly.

    If I'm about to die, I'd rather have 40% more health in 5-6 seconds, than 20%.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads

  12. #12
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    (USA) Florida
    Posts
    7,012
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    It used to be 40% (maybe more) health over 5 seconds. Now its 10% over 2.5 seconds. So it's half the time, but a quarter the healing.

    The damage is 15% over 60s, but was 25% over 40s.... The new way is better dps for raids, but worse dps for anything outside of raids.

    Basically its worse healing all around, and partially worse damage.

    As a particularly squishly class, it sucks to have our survivability hit even more
    If you're using Invo for anything outside of raiding/CMs, you're doing it wrong, or just enjoy being masochistic. Just use IW.

    I am pissed about the heal nerf.

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
    BTag: Polarthief#1411 (send me a PM or something; I remove randoms w/o notice)

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Fuck you, that's where.
    Posts
    4,496
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Yes but that still leaves me with LESS health quickly.

    If I'm about to die, I'd rather have 40% more health in 5-6 seconds, than 20%.
    Place a rune of power before Invo and you get 25-26% health in 5-6 seconds. It's enough health and time to get your healer back in business. Yes, you'd feel safer if it was 40% of your health but that's really unnecessary healing if you're playing in a proper setup. Only time you'd get full benefit from that heal is if you were soloing in arena or for other reasons don't have a healer to back you up. I think the point of this change is to make it so that the Mage can't go balls deep after invo and at the same time give them more mobility and easier use of the spell. You don't have to wait until you're dangerously low to use Invo, just throw it off anytime you're below 80% and you'll be topped off. There is no restriction to how you can use the spell now.

    Want to Invo openly in middle of the arena to get quick health and a damage boost? Then do it, nothing is stopping you now. You can now recklessly spam Invo without consequences, compared to a cd that may or may not be stopped after 1-2 seconds of channeling, ensuring your doom.
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side.

  14. #14
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    10,525
    MAybe Im misunderstanding, but not only do I not have IW.... But it is just a 20k shield every 25s instead of a 140k heal every 10 =/

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 07:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    It's enough health and time to get your healer back in business..
    What healer? The point I was making is that it hurts survivability outside raids/arenas where you DONT have a healer.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads

  15. #15
    We're talking about questing?
    I assume you're only thus doing all of this after having exhausted all of Frost Nova, Freeze Talent, Mirror Images and Invisibility then?
    I'm not going to lie I don't think there are many mobs that can even outdamage a 10% health 3 second cast heal, you can pop yourself back to full with that in quest content...

  16. #16
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Fuck you, that's where.
    Posts
    4,496
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    MAybe Im misunderstanding, but not only do I not have IW.... But it is just a 20k shield every 25s instead of a 140k heal every 10 =/

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 07:30 PM ----------


    What healer? The point I was making is that it hurts survivability outside raids/arenas where you DONT have a healer.
    Then what's the point of the thread? Anything outside of competitive play is a non-issue. You can't possibly mean that you are worried about survival when doing dailies or getting attacked by a ragtag group of allies/hordes? Soloing old content has also never been a survival issue for Mages, so you can't mean that either. What exactly is "outside" of raids and arena that's worth worrying about?
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side.

  17. #17
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    10,525
    My bad, I didn't know that mages automatically get full tier raid gear the moment they hit 90. I'll need to speak with the npc that does that.

    Yes. Questing, dailies, mainly. Places where pulling 3-5 things can get dangerous, or if mirror images is down. Invis is useless if getting attacked, and some people aren't frost spec. Regardless, it's less fast healing when you're getting beat on, which is when fast healing is important.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Fuck you, that's where.
    Posts
    4,496
    Getting a few blues from dungeons and quests are enough to secure your survival while leveling. Not getting those items(which takes 3 hours)is just self-harm... We are also speaking about a state of your character that is only true if you have the absolute shittiest of shit gear. This usually is a state that holds true for no more than 1hour until a person gets hold of 1 or 2 items of superior quality of above. I'd much rather have the game scaled around the 99% than for that 1 hour of hardship when/if your gear is sub-par for questing.
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side.

  19. #19
    Invis doesn't break during fading on damage any more, Frost Nova and Freeze Talents are given to you regardless of spec...

    You can summon food so there is no excuse not to go into every fight at full health and if you're using your kiting tools (Frost Nova, Cone of Cold, whatever you picked for your freeze talent, Blink, Blazing Speed) you aren't even going to take that much damage.

  20. #20
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    (USA) Florida
    Posts
    7,012
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Invis doesn't break during fading on damage any more, Frost Nova and Freeze Talents are given to you regardless of spec...

    You can summon food so there is no excuse not to go into every fight at full health and if you're using your kiting tools (Frost Nova, Cone of Cold, whatever you picked for your freeze talent, Blink, Blazing Speed) you aren't even going to take that much damage.
    Invis never broke during fading. It did if you were being hit many times just prior to going invis though.

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
    BTag: Polarthief#1411 (send me a PM or something; I remove randoms w/o notice)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •