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  1. #1
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Invocation. Ouch.

    Invocation used to restore 40-50% of my health over what, 5 seconds? Now its 10% over half that?
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    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
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  2. #2
    halved channeling and halved the healing done it was 20% for invocation 40% for IW evocation

    i know its bit odd they nerfed the healing thing but yea :/
    http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=dw+soul+roc in oceanic now Lol

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  3. #3
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Considering it's pretty much a mage's only method of combat healing outside sitting to eat... Kinda lame. And the 15% over 1min vs 25% over 40sec... I can see that being good for raiding? But everything else.. Ow.
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    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  4. #4
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    I'm not a Mage so I might be talking from my butthole now. But wouldn't this be beneficial to your class? Arranging a 2.5 second window to get a full invo isn't a problem for a Mage in pvp. I'm assuming we're talking from a PVP PoV? This change just makes Invocation a viable choice preburst or as a "spam" heal.

  5. #5
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    I'm not a Mage so I might be talking from my butthole now. But wouldn't this be beneficial to your class? Arranging a 2.5 second window to get a full invo isn't a problem for a Mage in pvp. I'm assuming we're talking from a PVP PoV? This change just makes Invocation a viable choice preburst or as a "spam" heal.
    It used to be 40% (maybe more) health over 5 seconds. Now its 10% over 2.5 seconds. So it's half the time, but a quarter the healing.

    The damage is 15% over 60s, but was 25% over 40s.... The new way is better dps for raids, but worse dps for anything outside of raids.

    Basically its worse healing all around, and partially worse damage.

    As a particularly squishly class, it sucks to have our survivability hit even more
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    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    It used to be 40% (maybe more) health over 5 seconds. Now its 10% over 2.5 seconds. So it's half the time, but a quarter the healing.

    The damage is 15% over 60s, but was 25% over 40s.... The new way is better dps for raids, but worse dps for anything outside of raids.

    Basically its worse healing all around, and partially worse damage.

    As a particularly squishly class, it sucks to have our survivability hit even more
    In my opinion it's a buffnerf. Think we have to wait and see how this plays off when the new season arrive before we can make any conclusions. I can only speak for myself at this point, if I played a Mage I'd rather have this version of the spell. This means I could use Invo quite openly and more often than the old version would allow me to. As a hunter and a counter to Mages I know that you are at your weakest while using invocation. You have to run away FAR from where you are needed if you want to get the full channel out and you also have to stand still which makes it easycake for me to reach up and scatter you long before you ever reach to get the full channel out. For arena I think this is a beneficial change(not buff) for RBG and outdoor, that remains to be seen.

    Pet freeze-> Invo-> DF->pop cd's->Burst=profit?

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer LocNess's Avatar
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    Done some raiding with it so far. Loving the new invo. Yeah it isn't as much damage or healing, but the channeling halving makes it so much smoother in the grand scheme of things.
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  8. #8
    Wasn't Invocation always 40% after the channel finished? The 6 second channel? With no healing on any of the ticks? And a cooldown?
    Meaning you'd get a heal off that outside a PvE environment once in never?

    The new Invocation heals for 1/4 the amount but it also has 1/2 of the cast time and no cooldown at all.
    It sounds to me like you're comparing untalented evocate with invocation...

  9. #9
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Wasn't Invocation always 40% after the channel finished? The 6 second channel? With no healing on any of the ticks? And a cooldown?
    Meaning you'd get a heal off that outside a PvE environment once in never?
    It has a 10 second cooldown, with a 6 second cast. So its 40% every 10 seconds over time. Which is I GUESS the same now, except it was 40 after 6, instead of 20 after 6 =/

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 07:06 PM ----------

    And I ALWAYS use it in combat. Its been a life saver.
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    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    It has a 10 second cooldown, with a 6 second cast. So its 40% every 10 seconds over time. Which is I GUESS the same now, except it was 40 after 6, instead of 20 after 6 =/

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 07:06 PM ----------

    And I ALWAYS use it in combat. Its been a life saver.
    "Invocation now removes Evocation cooldown"

  11. #11
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Yes but that still leaves me with LESS health quickly.

    If I'm about to die, I'd rather have 40% more health in 5-6 seconds, than 20%.
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    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    It used to be 40% (maybe more) health over 5 seconds. Now its 10% over 2.5 seconds. So it's half the time, but a quarter the healing.

    The damage is 15% over 60s, but was 25% over 40s.... The new way is better dps for raids, but worse dps for anything outside of raids.

    Basically its worse healing all around, and partially worse damage.

    As a particularly squishly class, it sucks to have our survivability hit even more
    If you're using Invo for anything outside of raiding/CMs, you're doing it wrong, or just enjoy being masochistic. Just use IW.

    I am pissed about the heal nerf.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Yes but that still leaves me with LESS health quickly.

    If I'm about to die, I'd rather have 40% more health in 5-6 seconds, than 20%.
    Place a rune of power before Invo and you get 25-26% health in 5-6 seconds. It's enough health and time to get your healer back in business. Yes, you'd feel safer if it was 40% of your health but that's really unnecessary healing if you're playing in a proper setup. Only time you'd get full benefit from that heal is if you were soloing in arena or for other reasons don't have a healer to back you up. I think the point of this change is to make it so that the Mage can't go balls deep after invo and at the same time give them more mobility and easier use of the spell. You don't have to wait until you're dangerously low to use Invo, just throw it off anytime you're below 80% and you'll be topped off. There is no restriction to how you can use the spell now.

    Want to Invo openly in middle of the arena to get quick health and a damage boost? Then do it, nothing is stopping you now. You can now recklessly spam Invo without consequences, compared to a cd that may or may not be stopped after 1-2 seconds of channeling, ensuring your doom.

  14. #14
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    MAybe Im misunderstanding, but not only do I not have IW.... But it is just a 20k shield every 25s instead of a 140k heal every 10 =/

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 07:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    It's enough health and time to get your healer back in business..
    What healer? The point I was making is that it hurts survivability outside raids/arenas where you DONT have a healer.
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    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  15. #15
    We're talking about questing?
    I assume you're only thus doing all of this after having exhausted all of Frost Nova, Freeze Talent, Mirror Images and Invisibility then?
    I'm not going to lie I don't think there are many mobs that can even outdamage a 10% health 3 second cast heal, you can pop yourself back to full with that in quest content...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    MAybe Im misunderstanding, but not only do I not have IW.... But it is just a 20k shield every 25s instead of a 140k heal every 10 =/

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 07:30 PM ----------


    What healer? The point I was making is that it hurts survivability outside raids/arenas where you DONT have a healer.
    Then what's the point of the thread? Anything outside of competitive play is a non-issue. You can't possibly mean that you are worried about survival when doing dailies or getting attacked by a ragtag group of allies/hordes? Soloing old content has also never been a survival issue for Mages, so you can't mean that either. What exactly is "outside" of raids and arena that's worth worrying about?

  17. #17
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    My bad, I didn't know that mages automatically get full tier raid gear the moment they hit 90. I'll need to speak with the npc that does that.

    Yes. Questing, dailies, mainly. Places where pulling 3-5 things can get dangerous, or if mirror images is down. Invis is useless if getting attacked, and some people aren't frost spec. Regardless, it's less fast healing when you're getting beat on, which is when fast healing is important.
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    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Getting a few blues from dungeons and quests are enough to secure your survival while leveling. Not getting those items(which takes 3 hours)is just self-harm... We are also speaking about a state of your character that is only true if you have the absolute shittiest of shit gear. This usually is a state that holds true for no more than 1hour until a person gets hold of 1 or 2 items of superior quality of above. I'd much rather have the game scaled around the 99% than for that 1 hour of hardship when/if your gear is sub-par for questing.

  19. #19
    Invis doesn't break during fading on damage any more, Frost Nova and Freeze Talents are given to you regardless of spec...

    You can summon food so there is no excuse not to go into every fight at full health and if you're using your kiting tools (Frost Nova, Cone of Cold, whatever you picked for your freeze talent, Blink, Blazing Speed) you aren't even going to take that much damage.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Invis doesn't break during fading on damage any more, Frost Nova and Freeze Talents are given to you regardless of spec...

    You can summon food so there is no excuse not to go into every fight at full health and if you're using your kiting tools (Frost Nova, Cone of Cold, whatever you picked for your freeze talent, Blink, Blazing Speed) you aren't even going to take that much damage.
    Invis never broke during fading. It did if you were being hit many times just prior to going invis though.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

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