Invocation. Ouch.

[Imnick]

I swear invisibility used to break on damage while fading during TBC and Wrath
and by I swear I mean "I thought this was true, then I looked it up on wowpedia and wowpedia also says that it was true"

so uh... yes it did

Either way it's still very far from useless if you are fighting five mobs and think you might die

[Potato Bus]

Invis never broke during fading. It did if you were being hit many times just prior to going invis though.

Isn't the period just prior to going invis the fading period???

Place a rune of power before Invo and you get 25-26% health in 5-6 seconds. It's enough health and time to get your healer back in business. Yes, you'd feel safer if it was 40% of your health but that's really unnecessary healing if you're playing in a proper setup. Only time you'd get full benefit from that heal is if you were soloing in arena or for other reasons don't have a healer to back you up. I think the point of this change is to make it so that the Mage can't go balls deep after invo and at the same time give them more mobility and easier use of the spell. You don't have to wait until you're dangerously low to use Invo, just throw it off anytime you're below 80% and you'll be topped off. There is no restriction to how you can use the spell now.

Want to Invo openly in middle of the arena to get quick health and a damage boost? Then do it, nothing is stopping you now. You can now recklessly spam Invo without consequences, compared to a cd that may or may not be stopped after 1-2 seconds of channeling, ensuring your doom.

Invocation and Rune of Power are exclusive to one another as they are both level 90 talents... did you mean Ring of Frost?? And I don't suggest recklessly spamming Invo: a simple spell lock and you can no longer blink, invis, or cast Invo for the heal/buff for long enough to be a very dead mage.

[zomgDPS]

Invis never broke during fading.

In its original version, it did.
Sauce.

It wasn't until patch 3.2 (Invis was added in BC, so 2.0) that they removed the "your invis will be interrupted by hostile actions". However, even that change is mute, since Invis is buggy as hell now (even the Ginvis version). It suffers from similar issues the original Rogue vanish suffered from, that being, it doesn't really work 100% of the time.


That being said, I'm not sure what this thread is about?
Are we QQing about the healing nerfs? Or are we just procrastinating over the OPs inability to separate the baseline Evocation with the talented Invocation version?

[Polarthief]

I swear invisibility used to break on damage while fading during TBC and Wrath
and by I swear I mean "I thought this was true, then I looked it up on wowpedia and wowpedia also says that it was true"

so uh... yes it did

Either way it's still very far from useless if you are fighting five mobs and think you might die

Erm... What happened in TBC and Wrath doesn't really apply nowadays...

Just yesterday, during the 3s period, Invis didn't break when I was being pummeled to death. Shortly after, I had a split second of invisibility, but a melee attack went through and broke it though.

So unless you're using G invis or you can actually get a small bit of distance from the mobs, it won't do much.

---------- Post added 2013-03-06 at 12:22 AM ----------

In its original version, it did.
Sauce.

It wasn't until patch 3.2 (Invis was added in BC, so 2.0) that they removed the "your invis will be interrupted by hostile actions". However, even that change is mute, since Invis is buggy as hell now (even the Ginvis version). It suffers from similar issues the original Rogue vanish suffered from, that being, it doesn't really work 100% of the time.

Easy way to fix: Invis doesn't break for the first 3s upon going invisible.

Problem solved.

[Imnick]

Erm... What happened in TBC and Wrath doesn't really apply nowadays...

Just yesterday, during the 3s period, Invis didn't break when I was being pummeled to death. Shortly after, I had a split second of invisibility, but a melee attack went through and broke it though.

Oh right, it seems your whole issue with my post was because you didn't read it.
Don't worry, this happens on the internet all the time...

Invis doesn't break during fading on damage any more.

@ZomgDPS: This thread is about someone struggling to keep himself alive while questing and blaming it on reduced evocation healing, when the key problem is actually the fact that he is taking damage in the first place.

[Polarthief]

Oh right, it seems your whole issue with my post was because you didn't read it.
Don't worry, this happens on the internet all the time...

Fak you >_> my eyes hurt.



(Sorry <.<)

This is also why I shouldn't be on the forums past 12AM lol

Regardless of that though, it still DOES break if you take a hit at an inopportune time, so my point still stands.

[zomgDPS]

Easy way to fix: Invis doesn't break for the first 3s upon going invisible.

Problem solved.

Oh the fix is certainly easy (they fixed Vanish in the same way). Though it took rogues like 3 years QQing about it before the fixed it.

I'm quite baffled as to why they don't just fix Ginvis in the same way. But this is Blizz, they are sort of 'slow' in that regard.

[Polarthief]

Oh the fix is certainly easy (they fixed Vanish in the same way). Though it took rogues like 3 years QQing about it before the fixed it.

I'm quite baffled as to why they don't just fix Ginvis in the same way. But this is Blizz, they are sort of 'slow' in that regard.

Sort of slow? It's been how many years and Polymorph still heals targets?

[gutnbrg]

hate the new invocation and wtf is up with inferno blast not spreading living bomb?

[Deleted]

Isn't the period just prior to going invis the fading period???



Invocation and Rune of Power are exclusive to one another as they are both level 90 talents... did you mean Ring of Frost?? And I don't suggest recklessly spamming Invo: a simple spell lock and you can no longer blink, invis, or cast Invo for the heal/buff for long enough to be a very dead mage.

No, I meant rune of power. But I didn't know they share the same tier. Recklessly spamming was an exaggeration. You can however use it more often and in tighter situations than the old version would allow you to.

[gutnbrg]

No, I meant rune of power. But I didn't know they share the same tier. Recklessly spamming was an exaggeration. You can however use it more often and in tighter situations than the old version would allow you to.

yes but even if u get it off, u only get healed enough to live thru 1 more attack...any class will hit u for 40k+ on almost any attack, and thats all invo heals for now is 40k...

[Deleted]

yes but even if u get it off, u only get healed enough to live thru 1 more attack...any class will hit u for 40k+ on almost any attack, and thats all invo heals for now is 40k...

I see things a bit differently. This isn't a 1 time healing CD anymore. It's a utility and mobility tool.

This will make kiting and health management so much more available for Mages. Let's say you're below 50% health, what would you do using the old version? You'd freeze the enemy and blink into cover and start the 6 second channel to get 40% health, right? What this new version allows you to do is to be able to use Invo even during your shortest duration slows and CD's. You can basically pillar hump up to full health without any single person being able to stop you.

Now, random warrior comes charging at ya, what ya do? Freeze->Invo> run around the pillar->Freeze->Invo> Run around the pillar->Freeze-> Invo- Run around the pillar.. See? Much better for health management in the long run than a 2min cd that has a 6 second channel. Also, this doesn't limit you to use only when absolutely needed (below 20% health). You can top yourself of at 80% health like a boss whenever you want to. Never again drop down to critical levels. This new thing is pure win and nothing else.

[Deleted]

Not sure why everyone is so pissed off about the healing nerf?

Time to cast was cut in half, health received cut in half, cd removed. The way I see it, if you need more health, you can evoc twice in a row. Granted, you'll 'waste' a gcd, but that's justifiable when its the choice between death and a gcd loss. You won't lose any actual time vs health gained compared to 5.1 evoc.

[gutnbrg]

cast time was cut in 1/2, healing was cut by 3/4 not 1/2....and to jevlin, i dont understand ur whole freeze -> pillar -> evo scenario. Not every mage is a frost mage and we cant be freezing people in place every 3seconds...

[Deleted]

cast time was cut in 1/2, healing was cut by 3/4 not 1/2....and to jevlin, i dont understand ur whole freeze -> pillar -> evo scenario. Not every mage is a frost mage and we cant be freezing people in place every 3seconds...

But every Mage has some form of slowing effect on either spells or Cd's. Freeze was just an example as I couldn't be arsed to come up with 3 different spells that slow or incapacitate enemy targets. The point remains, you are now able to use short duration CC to get a window to channel 10% health in 2.5sec whenever you want to. This wasn't possible with the 5.1 build. Just wait until new season start and you'll see how good this change really is.

[Cherrytie]

Even I (as non mage) see the change a bit harsh.
Granted I first was a bit scared about the amount of heal as PvPler who has to counter mages. But 10%? W/O luck it isnt even worth casting it as "squishy" mage, well it is (in matter of surive or die) but the 1/3 cut in dmg for a 1/2 of channeling time just doesnt seems justified.
Hopefully they adjust it a little bit.

[Fichek]

Not sure why everyone is so pissed off about the healing nerf?

Time to cast was cut in half, health received cut in half, cd removed. The way I see it, if you need more health, you can evoc twice in a row. Granted, you'll 'waste' a gcd, but that's justifiable when its the choice between death and a gcd loss. You won't lose any actual time vs health gained compared to 5.1 evoc.

People like you are the reason we can't have nice things. Is it so much of a bother to actually read something before posting your innane ramblings. Healing is not cut in half, nobody would mind if it was cut in half. It's a quarter of what it was. You healed for 40% in a 6sec channel, anb now you heal for 10% in a 3sec channel.
And i really like how Jevlin then starts by saying how he doesn't now much about mages, then proceeds talking like he's an expert on mages all the while proving that he really has 0 knowledge on mages :/
First of all, Ring of Power heals for 1% per second, so no, you won't heal for 24% in 6sec. Second, speccing Invocation (in 5.1) lowers the cooldown of Evocation to 10sec, so it's not 2min anymore. And third, i would really like to play that mage that has 12315676756 freezes on him :/
Saying this, 40% health on a 3sec spammable channel was a no go from the start. 20% may still be a bit too much considering how a sub 3sec channel would be easy to pull off in lots of situations compared to a full 6sec channel, but 10% means nothing. 15% would be just right. It would be a 5% per second while channeling which would average to 1% - 2% per second in general which is more or less what most of other classes have.

[Soulstrike]

People like you are the reason we can't have nice things. Is it so much of a bother to actually read something before posting your innane ramblings. Healing is not cut in half, nobody would mind if it was cut in half. It's a quarter of what it was. You healed for 40% in a 6sec channel, anb now you heal for 10% in a 3sec channel.
And i really like how Jevlin then starts by saying how he doesn't now much about mages, then proceeds talking like he's an expert on mages all the while proving that he really has 0 knowledge on mages :/
First of all, Ring of Power heals for 1% per second, so no, you won't heal for 24% in 6sec. Second, speccing Invocation (in 5.1) lowers the cooldown of Evocation to 10sec, so it's not 2min anymore. And third, i would really like to play that mage that has 12315676756 freezes on him :/
Saying this, 40% health on a 3sec spammable channel was a no go from the start. 20% may still be a bit too much considering how a sub 3sec channel would be easy to pull off in lots of situations compared to a full 6sec channel, but 10% means nothing. 15% would be just right. It would be a 5% per second while channeling which would average to 1% - 2% per second in general which is more or less what most of other classes have.

calm down...... seriosuly >_> no need to point fingers at ppl

i too understand ppl are bit upset with whole invocation nerf but most of the heal done by invocation are overheal DURING raid anyways

and using invocation for soloing?? i advice you to use IW instead (shield and 60% heal from evocation way better)

[Deleted]

Emotional wreckstorm

I don't need to know much about Mages to be able to argue how to PVP or utilize a spell properly. It really is common sense.

No cd+ less cast time = more opportunities to cast previously mentioned spell=Better survival. It doesn't require a genius to see how to utilize that in PVP.

[Fichek]

calm down...... seriosuly >_> no need to point fingers at ppl

i too understand ppl are bit upset with whole invocation nerf but most of the heal done by invocation are overheal DURING raid anyways

and using invocation for soloing?? i advice you to use IW instead (shield and 60% heal from evocation way better)

You misunderstood me. I wasn't upset about the change, i don't like it, and i feel it shouldn't be so severe, but i wasn't upset by it. I was upset by people like Jevlin talking about things that they obviously have no knowledge of all the while acting like experts on the matter. And even saying like this change is a god given. Things like that really tick me off.

I don't need to know much about Mages to be able to argue how to PVP or utilize a spell properly. It really is common sense.
No cd+ less cast time = more opportunities to cast previously mentioned spell=Better survival. It doesn't require a genius to see how to utilize that in PVP.

You are completely correct, it's far easier to successfully freeze or incapacitate opponents 4x in a row so you could do 4 channels rather than doing that once to do one channel. It really doesn't take a genius to figure that out.